I already requested this feature in http://forums.rootsm...i-use-every-day
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There have been 24 items by hlein (Search limited from 14-April 20)
I am sorry to say, but alternate names and married names (and other things you try to rationalise away or classify as useless) _do_ serve to the user. They can be used in sentences to match the docuemnts, make reports more talkative etzc.
Just because you did drive a compact car and never have driven a Mercedes, a Mercedes is not useless and does not serve anything.
first of all, I would like to say that I do not want RM to become a clone of TMG or any other program. And I do not want to "break" what RM users are doing today.
But after some not very extensive testing of RM I have defined a non-exhaustive wishlist of lacking features in RM that I use a lot every day in TMG. This keeps me from migrating to RM today. (I cannot guarantee that I won't find yet other obstacles once some have been removed and I make further testings.)
I think from adding these features to RM also other RM users could benefit from them (nobody would be forced to change his method of working or to use the new features) and probably they will like it once they have tried.
Here is my list:
Flags in TMG are added automatically to each person, with a default value. Every person in the project has the same flags, if a new flag is created, it is added to all existing persons, if a flag is deleted, it is removed from every person. The flags may be shown when a person is selected.
Introduce flags. They cannot be replaced by RM custom facts as these are not the same for very person (not handled automatically)
- Dynamic Accenting / Coloring
RM has only a predefined limited set of foreground colors, coloring is based on static groups.
Allow coloring to select foreground and background colors from a palette. Allow coloring to be based also on Flags (dynamic).
- Alternate Names in facts and sentences
RM allows only the usage of the primary name in sentences and facts. This does not match the documents or sources.
The godmother in a church register is reffered by (one of) her married name(s), not by her maiden name. This cannot be represented in RM. The same applies to marriages of a widow (the document refers to her married name of the previous marriage) or death records.
Allow alternate names in facts and sentences.
- Roles for Principals
RM does not allow roles for principals. Therefor it is not possible to assign roles for „equal“ partners in a fact.
In a sales contract or similar two persons are involved, the vendor and the buyer. None of them has priority to the other.
Allow roles also for principals.
- Birth facts
RM has no way to specifiy an illegitimate birth or stillborn children. If you use a customised fact like BirthIlleg, it is not recognised as a birth, and no infprmation based on the birth date are shown or computed.
introduce different types of birth, like „standard“, illegitimate, stillborn
- Search person
TMG has the possibility to show in its search window also information on the parents and a spouse of each person. This eases very much selecting a specific person out of many with equal name.
add parents and spouses information to search person
TMG allows reports to be based also on filters that are interpreted dynamically when a report is launched without the need to create groups or select the persons manually.
Reports may be used to change the value of flags (secondary output).
Introduce a facility to specify filters / selections to be used by reports or other. Introduce a possibility to change/create flags/facts for persons specified by filters etc.
- Ease of Use
- in case of a marriage, the married name of the bride should be created automatically (maybe by setting)
- allow drag & drop for media/exhibits in sources and facts. This avoids having to go down all trees and select a spewcific file.
- TMG direct import
Married names are imported only as Alternate Name without the indication of a „married“ name. The same applies to baptismal names.
import them properly, setting also the name type.
If your TMG Birth facts imported as custom Births, that is because you have used something other than TMG's standard Birth. Either in TMG or in RootsMagic, you need to change the tag/fact type to the standard one.
I am not very satisfied with this approach. TMG supports different types of birth: "normal", illegitimate, stillborn. I want to maintain this information after migration and also use it in sentences Changing the fact type or having two facts ("standard" to have RM think the person is born and another one to indicate illegitimate/stillborn) is no solution for me.
"RM works as designed" . This may be true. But nobody would object an enhancement of RM design to accept/support different kind of births etc. Conventional RM users would not be forced to use it and newcomers from TMG would be satisfied.
Maybe we (i.e. TMG users) should make a list of possible enhancements to RM that would not impact traditional users (ensure continuity) and nevertheless add features similar to TMG. I could think of flags, coloring (two models: based on flags or groups, not limited to 16 colors but background/foreground colors), roles for principals, usage of alternate names in facts/sentences, different type of parents (biological, step parents, adoption, ...), different types of baptism (re-baptism, adult, ...) etc.
Why not use County for Parish?
1) because there is a political unit named Kreis (Germany) or Bezirk (Austria) that is more like a county.
Today's structure in Germany / Austria:
street, village/city, Kreis/Bezirk, federal country, state
2) parishes for trhe same place differ during time (e.g. in Austria 1784 a lot of new parishes were establuished)
you are right. Looking at the structures of RM (I am just a beginner and trying/evaluating) I don't see a good place where to put it. note also that there are several places (villages) belonging to one parish.
If I have a source for the event, then I put the parish information into the source, too. But I don't have sources for all. Maybe it is a misuse of the temple field, but I do not need temple information (no LDS) and it is very practical to see it on screen without having to open other windows/forms. And I do not export it to GEDCOM.
It is just appended to the endf of the place information (with a comma as separator between the fields).
It may be specified to have comma separators also for empty fields.
2 DATE 12 MAY 1811
2 PLAC Nr. 14, Neustift am Wald, Wien, Österreich, Neustift am Wald
2 NOTE an Brustwassersucht | richtige Person ?
2 SOUR @S11109@
In sentences it may be used by the variable [L10] or [TEMPLE].
The place itself is imported. What disappears is the Temple field (in my example labelled "Pfarre").
Example of form for entering death event:
Example for edit place:
if exporting to GEDCOM from TMG you may choose to export it together with the place or not.
From TMG help:
The place where an event occurred is recorded in separate fields in order to facilitate searching. For your convenience, five unlimited fields are referred to by the divisions commonly used: Detail, City/Town, County, State, and Country. These fields can be used for any geographical or political place name divisions. Limited fields for Latitude/Longitude and Temple are also provided. Addressee, Postal, and Phone fields are also provided for your use when desired.
There are ten place fields with the following default labels:
Label 10: Temple
in TMG, for every event the place contains the field "Temple". I am using it with a different label ("Pfarre") to store the name of the parish where the place belongs to / which parish had the register in case of births, marriages, deaths, .... This information is lost during import.
This is more or less what I mainly have done with colors in the example image, Accents by Flags (a user defined Flag defines the lineage). Difference with RM: RM colrs by groups (or selected people), and is static (groups have to be updated manually), TMG ist dynamc (changing the flag immediately changes the colors).
working in the people main view and showing Family in the sidebar helps a bit. (Coloring would not help too much in my case because it is static contrary to TMG where Accenting (similar to coloring) is based on FLAGS (not available in RM) and dynamic - new people immediately show up in the correct color).
it is created by direct import from TMG if the birth (in TMG) was illegitimate (in German unehlich, mother unmarried). TMG knows 3 kinds of births: "normal" (probably the equivalent to RM fact Birth), illegitimate and stillborn.
In this case (illegitimate birth) the behaviour of RM does not seem to be consistent: it does not give the year in the Born column, but in the Timeline it displays the age beginning with the illeg. birth and in the timeline of the spouse it is displayed as Birth-Spouse.
thanks for trying to help. But this procedure is far too complecated (and therefore much too slow) when you are browsing / entering many data from church registers "sequentially", e.g. not family by family but in chronological order. In this case (and that is much of what I am currently doing) the surnames are always changing and you cannot create groups etc.
I wanted to achieve something similar to the Search View in TMG.
I am using it very much and need the information on the parents (and spouse) to select the right person out of several with the same name.
Dos it mean that this is not possible in RM? That would be another strong reauest on the wishlist.
A little bit off topic here may be the fact that Illegitimate Births (BirthIlleg) do not show a date in nthe Born column everywhere. Another request.
my data are imported directly from TMG. I tried to customize the People View to show Father and Mother of a person. Whatever type of Father or Mother (Father-Bio, Father-Ado ...) I specify, the parents are not displayed in the grid. What's wrong ?
I am using flags for indicating the branch of the family, its "degree" of relationship (ancestor, blood-related, related by marriage ...) together with Accents. This way I can see at once in Details, project explorer, find etc. useful information by the color.
If I discover a connection of a (sub)tree to some person, I can select several persons in the Explorer and run a report with secondary output (not possible in RM) to change their relationship flag.
Hi Ron Bernier,
I agree with you. Making RM a clone of TMG would be a bad idea and I never intended to. As I said in another post, in my opinion RM today is a step ahead of the others.
I still think that TMG has some features/goodies used by many TMG-users (not everyone, there are a lot of ways to work with TMG) that could be valuable also for existing RM users. That does not mean the features would have to be cloned, it should just give ideas for the evolution of RM.
Maybe I should post my requests in the Wishlist forum (I was thinking this thread would also be read by developers and was not aware it is a users help users forum. My apologies for that.).
Hi Renee, kbens0n,
Maybe Laura did not think about it, but this one comment sounds rude.
I know quite well, that every product is different and they cannot be (and maybe should not be) equal. Everyone has its goodies.
But fact ist that TMG has some very appreciated features and some possibilities to ease its use (like repeat key, the manner of entering new persons and many more, also the screen layout where you have everything concerning a person on the same screeen: person details similar to RM timeline, children, siblings, associated people like godfather, marriage witnesses, priests etc, explorer, flags). And it is (at least in my opinion) far ahead concerning reports. I think that also RM users could benefit from such features and facilitate (and speed up) their work.
I also do know that TMG users are not at all alike and they use TMG in different ways. But some central features are used by all of them.
And it is also correct that TMG has its "problems", e.g. creation of websites or that it cannot support Unicode/UTF (something I would really like to have because of Czech ancestors) due to its underlying database.
RM for sure is powerfull and although it seems to be the best alternative to TMG at the moment it lacks some features that I would not like to miss and in my case would cause some loss of information. Besides that, TMG does not (yet ?) speak German - but there are not many equivalent products that do either. I think me and most of today's TMG "power"-users will observe the development of RM and its competitors during the next months and then make their decision.
Flags = User defined facts in RM are more versatile. The search criteria and Groups eliminates the need for flags for data that can be searched.
Flags are added to every person with a default value when the person is added. Events/Facts are not. Flags have defined allowed values. Facts don't. Every person has the same flags. This is not necessarily the case with facts.
I don't know what Repeat key does in TMG
It repeats the last input for a field in a form (last 10 values of every field are memorized for every fact/event type). It repeats in a circular way for the field you are in.
No, RM will not drag and drop media anywhere, you have to tag it yourself, but you can do that from one place. Select the media in the Media gallary or Media Album and tag it to every where you want to tag it to without having to navigate to the person, event for a person, place, or Master source or Source detail first
When you have several hundreds or thousands of exhibits, you are out of luck using the gallery. You need to use Add New Media / Image / from Disk / navigate to the directory, select/open the file. Or you could have an Explorer Window and drag it from there into RM media pane.
Start typing the Master source name, and it will take take you to the Master source.
A find function usually is not limited to the beginning of the name.
Add married names to the Alternate name fact.
Given: Jane Mary (Doe) [Doe is the maiden name]
Surname: [married surname]
Sure. No problem (besides the fact that the Married name could be created automatically when the marriage is entered).
This has the advantage of showing the Alternate name in the Sidebar Index, RootsMagic Explorer, and People view if you choose that option. It makes it easy to find a married woman if you don't know her married name. You can type her marriad surname, given name in the list and it will take you to.her record. You can also mark the Alternate name fact as Private or globally restrict the fact from printing in reports at Lists, Fact type list.
But you cannot use the married name in the Death fact or other facts. You cannot use it in the sentence for death. (Examples only, is valid for every event/fact)
Principle is the role for the Principle [person the fact is added to and then shared with other people as Witnesses or whatever other Sharee roles you have setup.].
But it would be nice if also principles could have roles, e.g. Groom and Bride etc.
No program you change to is going to have the same database structure as TMG.
Right. But RM wants to attract TMG users. And TMG users don't want to have too many drawbacks. RM should take care of this.
If you don't like RM, find one that you like better.
That means: piss off ?? Nice way to treat possible customers.
In TMG I make heavy use of
- Flags and accenting
- Repeat-key (F3)
- Drag & Drop to add media for exhibits (in sources and events/facts)
- find/search a source when adding an existing source (no find in RM Cite existing source)
- Alternate Names (married name etc) in Events/facts and sentences
- Roles also for principals (not only witnesses)
- secondary output in reports to set flags
I did not find adequate features in RM.