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#35987 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 23 May 2010 - 06:13 PM in Issues

I have some concerns about merge and there are some problems with ShareMerge creating additional citations etc.

I have been bringing together many small databases in expectation of Dynamic Groups being introduced in the not too distant future and have been surprised with the number of duplicate persons after running the automerges. I exported a sample to look at the _UID of each person expecting RM to be to blame but the _UID's were all different. Thinking about my past practices I then realised that when I dragged and dropped John Doe, selected "Everyone in the same Tree", and confirmed that John Doe was the same person I was dropping onto, then John Doe maintained the same _UID but everyone else in his tree got a new _UID. That is currently my suspicion and I believe it will prove to be true.

When you stated the "exactly the same ID" were you referring to the _UID in the gedcom file or Ref No?, if you are not sure export the two individuals in question and open the gedcom file in Notepad as a text file, at the start of each person you will see a line like "1 _UID 94701BD8919CF543A5A1DFCE4000686E65BC", that it the Unique Person ID and if they are both the same I believe RM will merge regardless of other facts.

Yes I mean the UID number that Rootsmagic gives every person in the database, not any user generated reference. The number that shows next to the persons name in manual duplicate merge. If 2 people have the same RM number you cant merge them into 1 because ts the same person

Also , backups take just under a minute in RM4 even with 1,700,000 people, but it takes about 30mins-1hr to backup the same size gedcom in RM3. It takes a few hours to import the gedcom into either RM3 or RM4
Its just the manual merge , where you merge 2 people which is excruciatingly slow ie 30 mins per person, when you click to go back to the main list of people. I havent tried the automatic duplicate merge search as going by the manual merge it will take hours &/or it will crash & I dont want to corrupt this large gedcom

Try importing these gedcoms into a database, then try manually merging them in RM4, that will give some idea of our problem

This will make a comparable large gedcom for testing

#35967 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 22 May 2010 - 01:56 PM in Issues

I've retried RM4 with my very large database & its slow straight from the off. , approx 30mins to merge 2 people, it hangs when you click, select the 2nd person & takes 30 mins for the box with the list of names to come back up

Before on the previous version of RM4 , it ran fast & smootlhly for the 1st 100 merges then it went back to the slow speed again, so it wouldnt be easy to tell just from a fresh import & a couple of merges, you need to run it for a good while

If you want to try out a large gedcom in it to see if the problem is replicated , you can try the one containing the royal lines for 1,000's of years, (i have already imported this one too) at the gedcom database http://www.genealogy...om/gedr2090.htm . . My backup file for either RM3/4 is 250mb

I also find that even after merging in RM3, there are still some people in the database, that show duplicate parents in manual merge window, with ie 1 individual showing 2 wives , with the same names & exactly the same ID no & both women have the same children. Even when exported to RM4 i think these occasional duplicates still showed up.


#35965 Large Databases over Million people + Running on a Mac

Posted by isis on 22 May 2010 - 01:32 PM in Issues

Heres my experience with Rootsmagic, which is an excellent concept

I've been researching all of my family names for over 6 years & I've created a main gedcom of approx 1, 700, 000 people. This presents a no of difficulties ie whether I use my RM3 or RM4 there are constant crashing & or extreme slowness when merging problems. The gedcom is v large as it contains a 2 x language versions of the Adam & Eve database from different sources with different family trees added. Ive managed to merge most of my lines with the main adam & eve family lines so its impractical to split families off into separate databases, especially as some families regularly intermarry with cousins further back, especially in royal trees

Both programmes are functionally on my windows vista pc & all parts work except, now exporting gedcoms as the programmes both crash when I try to export the whole gedcom onto another pc.

RM4 is still unusable despite upgrading to the latest version & getting a new business vista pc, which is faster, because when I try to merge 2 people it takes 30 mins to go to the person I wish to merge to , even if they are the next person on the sidebar list, which is too slow.

Ive now got a mac running snow leopard, Ive tried to run RM4 & RM3 using crossover. They both install, & I've used my pc RM backup files & then the Database files to try & get them to access my pc generated RM database. Both programmes installed ok & run on my mac. But, even though the full database of people opens on the windows ,mac emulator, both RM3 & RM4 crash when I try to merge 2 people. So all I can do is look at the people stored in it

On windows when I couldnt use RM4 when it was to slow, I went back to using RM3 which is much faster & goes to the manual merge of 2 people in secs, however, it crashes after say 15 merges. So I have to keep restarting.

The question is , if I were to use VMware, parallel or virtualbox, does anyone have any tips on exporting RM3 or RM4 files into it
Did anyone find RM4 ran faster especially re: merges on any of those 3 emulators with v large databases?

Also if I have to go back to using RM3 but on an mac/windows emulator, would there be less crashes? Backup works on both RM3 & RM4 fine.

Also if when I installed RM3 on crossover, I then needed to install the RM3 update, there didnt seem to be anyway of doing this because the bottle function didnt see it as a programme update . The upgrade programme says something like RM3upgrade.setup.exe , is there any place I can download 1 final version of the programme in 1 go. I have my license/serial codes for it.

My alternative is trying to export it into a different mac geneaology programme as there is no RM programme for mac. However, both RM3 or RM4 do not allow me now to complete a full gedcom export as they both crash after about 500,000 people so there would be no method of exporting the file

Or the upcoming familytreemaker for mac, or would that be equally slow? When I last tried it a few years ago, it was slow even with a smaller database of about 300,000 people

If anyone wants to try using a large Adam & Eve database, on RM4 & merging you can download a working one at http://www.genealogy...om/gedr2090.htm I have other versions of this installed with this one & Ive managed to merge them, which is very interesting from a dna research point of view

If anyone has any helpful suggestions I'd be very grateful


#33657 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 18 February 2010 - 09:21 PM in Issues

It isn't RootsMagic's fault that it is running so slow.

There is something else on your computer that is slowing it down.
Either some kind of malware filter, an indexing program of some kind or something.
Because, Essentials is exactly the same program, all you have to do is add the registration code to get the full version.

I have an approx 900,000 people database of various families, which have german, & english versions of family trees, going back to vikings, egypt etc

In RM3 , this runs very fast with no delays, irrespective of 1,000's of merges. However on the same PC , I installed the new version of RM4 & initially for the 1st few days, it was a gazelle, with no delays. However after a few 100 people merges & a few days later, it slowed from taking, approx 1 sec to go from 1 manually merged name back to the list of names to select the duplicate to merge with , to up to 10 mins. This became so frustrating I've stopped using the programme.

As you'll see from my earlier posts , I ve tried many things to try to speed up my windows software to see if that was the problem, although my machine runs fast. Ive submitted the programme errors to the helpsite & had no solutions offered.

I had the same problem when the programme 1st came out, although it was worse, ie the programme was running like a snail, from the very 1st time you used it, then it slowed to up to 30mins to go back to the merged list. I thought the problem was solved in the new version, as it ran superfast even though it had 900,000 individuals. It was only when I did 100's of people & place name merges, that it then started to slow down & not before. This I think is because the rebuild & package indexes, feature has been removed in RM4. It doesnt delete merged records entirely, evidenced by the fact that when you merge variants of a name, you are still shown all of the names you merged in the manual duplicate list of names , this must slow the programme down as the index to thge database stays the same size despite having lots of deleted/merged records. Its like having a warehouse with 1 full cereal box and 1,000's of now empty cereal boxes. But it has to keep searching the clutter of the empty cereal boxes to find the one you want. You can't even switch off the alternative name view, in the manual merge, primary, 2ndary merge function. You can only switch off alternative name view in the main left sidebar of the programme. But theres no need to see it.

My posts above are:


Disappointly, I reported this fault last year & this year & nothing has been done about it , I havent even had a constructive reply to my bug reporting, earlier, they ve just said theyve logged my bug report, so I've had to go back to Rm3, which is faster

Come on RM4 , its time to put the trash out.


Posted by isis on 11 February 2010 - 10:44 AM in Discussion

I've exported my gedcom from RM4 back to RM3 & it speeds through now, & the packing feature works perfectly again

Its got to be a lack of purge /pack & delete function that slows RM4. RM4 is great but its a relatively simple problem to fix & put back in (surely). RM4 ran fast until I did 100's of merges. Its too slow now to continue using but RM3 is cool



Posted by isis on 10 February 2010 - 02:44 PM in Discussion

I have done the same as you although my database is nowhere near as large. I am only working with a 1.5k subset of information in RM4, although I love the features the speed is bothering.

As I have said elsewhere, RM4 has and continues to break media links, prefix Place Details notes and I believe I have noticed problems with source citations, all when merging or exporting and importing. That is why the larger protion of my database which contains mostly my reference material is still managed in RM3.

I havent added media , photos etc so i havent tested that feature yet. I wont be testing that feature until the database purge is sorted as I dont want to lose data. Luckily so far I havent lost anything (except time :rolleyes: ). As I have to now rexport to just a gedcom, to go back to RM3, I know I'd lose that kind of data. Its a shame RM3 cant import RM4 databases or backups (as not compatible), in the same way RM3 can . Its a shame because at the moment i'd only recommed RM3 to family members but I'm not sure if its still available. (In fact I've just checked & RM3 isnt available for download on either the rootsmagic.co.uk or .com. Shame for downgraders for whom the programme has become unusable & theres no fix.

#33396 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 10 February 2010 - 02:11 PM in Issues

I'm late to this topic, but I would like to try to make a distinction. It seems to me that people are describing two kinds of slowness which I will call macro-slowness and micro-slowness. An example of macro-slowness might be when you start the program and open a data base - how long before you can start using the program? Is it 5 seconds, 10 seconds, or 5 minutes? Examples of micro-slowness have to do more with whether the program (and probably the underlying Windows) can keep with with the keyboard and mouse. A prime example of this has already been noted in this thread, namely CTL-F to open RM Explorer followed immediately by typing in a name. The micro-slowness can cause some of what you type to be swallowed or misinterpreted entirely. And the same thing can happen with the mouse sometimes.

I'm not sure if macro-slowness and micro-slowness have a common set of underlying causes or not. But except for really extreme cases of macro-slowness, I would prefer that any efforts that might be made to improve performance be focused on eliminating micro-slowness.

I dont think it has anything to do with processor & memory , as i have a 900,000 people database, which sped through all of the RM4 features speedily , for a few days, until I'd merge a few hundred individuals & places, on a 2GB 2GHZ Vista business laptop.I expected the programme to be much slower with this database & I havent found another geneaology programme apart from RM3, that can handle it

Its only after doing 100's of merges , by 3 days later that it started to run manual duplicate merges at a slow place. I think the lack of the rebuild /repackage/purge database which is in RM3 & PAF, slows the database index name search, because it may be searching deleted/merged records as well as new merged individuals, which must really slow it down

Has anyone else, experienced it slowing down the more you merge

I had tried RM4 just after beta mode last year on a 500k memory 1GHz processor XP machine & it did run very slow from the off & clearly that was a memory etc problem, but as the new version of RM4 ran quickly , with the same large database initially, then it leads me to think its a merge & purge problem

Also despite the 900k people , RM4 reported no errors during use, and all features , worked, only problem, it just got slower & slower to merge, my only real complaint


Posted by isis on 10 February 2010 - 01:54 PM in Discussion

I'm trying to remember what Clint Eastwood said about opinions ;) , anyway they are important and people do seek them out more and more in todays instant world.

That's why I was a little surprised and disappointed to see RM fall to #3 in the reviews below. I remember proudly posting this site before when RM3 was the latest offering and it was #1. People do seek out reviews before buying so if I were Bruce I would not be happy with that positioning, would be rushing to get RM4 complete and polished and be requesting that the review be done again. Maybe even an early jump to V5 with a free upgrade to all existing RM4 customers, after all a year has almost gone by since RM4 release.


I think the main problem is the loss of the purge of deleted /merged records ie. the package & rebuild index feature RM3 had

I have an over 900,000 people database & RM4 sped through it with no delays , until i'd merged over 150 people & place names , then the manual duplicate merge option started running at a snails pace. I notice that the alternate names feature is still indexing merged individuals in all the areas of the database that the original person was in ie if you figure out that Elizabeth Walker, is aka Elizabeth Smith , as she got married & shes Elizabeth in another merged tree, or Eliza Walker (all individuals with same birth dates, spouse & parents.

After merging in all of the areas the name still appears as it was originally, although it is merged. That indexing must slow down the database, especially if you do that on 500 people. In RM3 it re-indexed it, getting rid of the old references in the list view. I can see all of the the alternative names in person edit view, which is sufficient. Alternative view, is an interesting feature but it needs to optionally be switched off in both in manual duplicate merge & the sidebar (not just in sidebar view options).

That said, All of the new features in RM4 work well even with a 900,000 database.

But bring back optimising database please, the programme is now to slow to work. I have no problems in RM3 with this large database even after 1,000's of merges because of the rebuild & purge feature. I'm exporting all of my database back to RM3 (which means I'll lose all of my colour coded families)so I can clean it out & work quicly, rather than wait 15 mins to do 1 duplicate merge in RM3

The problem with RM4 is not lack of processor speed on large databases its database purging otherwise it wouldnt have worked perfectly & fast for he 1st 3 days , when I'm only using a 2GB memory 2Ghz laptop. I've seen messages from people with 4gb memory & only 34,000 people whove had the slowdown on RM4 which is way smaller than my 900,000.

On a happy note every feature of RM4 works with a 900k people database , it just gets slower & slower , the more you merge people. I prefer RM4 to RM3 on features,
But RM3 beats RM4 on speed, so back to RM3 for me

Oh & backup is quicker on RM4 , (under a minute), vs RM3 around 5 mins (possibly because nothing much has changed in the RM4 after merges, I dont know). RM3 packing after merges took about 30 mins , but I didnt mind as it then sped up the programme, occasionally the programme closed down mid pack, but when you reopened the programme it continued repacking where it left off & then finished but the programme still worked fine , so it wasnt an error. If you tried to stop the programme during a repack in RM3 you could corrupt the database & lose it, so I always let it run & it was fine everytime.

Nearly happy RM4 customer

#33357 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 09 February 2010 - 07:01 AM in Issues

I'm hoping Bruce & Team are going to find a safe way to do it, there are so many problems within RM at present that are linked to indexing not to mention speed that the repack function really needs to make a come back.

I strongly suggest its a merge, purge & delete issue in RM4, there was a similar issue with my sql on a phpnuke website, but there was a button in the programme, you just pressed to optimise the database, which presumably deleted , deleted records & re-indexed it to make it run faster

I notice that PAF & RM3 had the pack & rebuild index feature, why was it removed from RM4

I find it a bit annoying that you can remove the space consuming, alternative name view in the sidebar list of names, but you cant remove the alternative names in the duplicate name merge option.

This makes the search for people to merge with, more confusing, because , in my case, I may have merged 8 people with the same name or letter different, but the list of names is showing me all of the names that I have already merged , when I'm just looking for the names that I need to merge with. Ive got a few trees imported a couple of times family members, so it just fills the screen up with names I've already resolved, ie in list of 15 visible names 10 are variations of the name I merged & only 3 are not merged yet. Its better to allow this feature to be switched off in merge session & surely it slows down the indexing, because its indexing the same person in 12 different places, but the merged info is the same

ie made up example
Mary Queen of Scotland b 1037 d1067 ie Scotland, Mary (Queen of)
is merged with

Name list
Scots, Mary queen of 1037 1067 &
Stuart, Mary Queen 1037 1067
Stewart, Mary (Queen) 1036 1067
Queen of Scotland, Mary 1034 1067
Scotland, Marye Queen 1037 1067
England, Mary (Queen of Scots) 1037 1067

After merging , all of the above different methods of listing the same person, are in the list of names to merge with, (like ghosts),which means they also stay in the wrong locations, like "queen of scotland" as surname in imported gedview which shouldnt be then continualy filed there.

Its also disheartening as it makes you think theres more left to merge than there really is, because the database is bloated with loads of copies of the same name. Please allow for viewing these alternative names in the duplicate search & merge to become optional as well. Its enough to be able to see the alternative names in the persons (edit details). If youre comparing people to merge with, your more likely to look in the persons profile, partners , children & parents, then go round RM4 lists of names to see other names for that person as spouses child etc.

I m merging approx 3 versions of royalty databases inc. german & english, french versions going back to vikings & there can sometimes be 10 name versions of the same person, ie Henry , Heindrik , Henri etc but dates, partners, places, children all match but the database just gets littered with names youve already resolved .

I dont have this problem in RM3, you just get 1 merged person with alternative names visible when you click on that person

The merging is slow enough as it is, (up to 2 mins now, to search for a name on the duplicate name list). We dont also need to, without a choice, search the litter of already merged names. I know theres a blue box next to some, but it fills up the screen , unecessarily,when youve done lots of similar name merges & its harder to find your next merge. It must be indexing alternatives to all over the database, where the names originally were which must slow down the search immensly.


#33339 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 08 February 2010 - 08:31 PM in Issues

SQLite does has a VACUUM command for repacking, but am hesitant to use it outside of the program for now, unsure as to whether any consequences might make themselves known further on down the road.


If there is a safe way to do it, I'd love to try it. Has anyone tried this? I could backup before I do it

Also thanks to Brenda for the reporting tip. I tried to describe the error fully as perhaps theres a simple fix on the horizon if its just a deleted items error , slowing down the database search. I think if it was just that it couldnt handle large files, then it wouldnt have sped through the same big database for the 1st few days of use. I think after merging over 500 it really started slowing down hard. I didnt delete any records, I just merged items ie linked & unlinked people

Also, I may try running it on a mac windows emulator, to see if its faster. I found large videos ran faster on my mac than on my pc.

Thanks All

#33332 RM4 seems to take quite a long time to open

Posted by isis on 08 February 2010 - 07:38 PM in Discussion

Has anyone managed to fix the slow merge issues?

From July 2008, Bruce and Michael started revealing the new features through the blog, if you click on each months archive then each subject you will get a much better idea of the possibilities if RM4.


Posted by isis on 08 February 2010 - 07:28 PM in Discussion

Excellent, all good things come to those who wait <img src="http://forums.rootsm...#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Still Waiting on the programme & the fix

#33330 RM4 is SLOW

Posted by isis on 08 February 2010 - 07:24 PM in Issues

I have exactly the same problems
I tried RM4 beta then RM4 full after using RM3 with no problems with speed on a 1gb memory 1 ghz laptop

I have a 2 GB laptop now with 2Ghz processor. I reinstalled RM4 after seeing the update to RM 4. 7

At 1st it ran very fast for the 1st 2 days but then I did alot of merging. I have the adam & eve database which has over 300,000 individuals as well as my personal family files.

Only after I merged about 100 people , did the RM4 slow. When slowing happened in RM3, I just backed up & repacked the database to delete , deleted records then it ran smoothly. But RM4 has not got this feature at all. Isnt this part of the problem? Is RM4 also now searching deleted /merged people & place names. I think I noticed the biggest slow down after merging place names . I also merged names like
,,,Idaho, America
<Idaho>, America
with the place name Idaho, America
I think it may have also been around the time I did Geocode on the database. I'm not sure which of the above merges , did it but, it was working fine when the database was intially larger but now starts crashing & going slow, when it goes to search & explore names that I want to merge

The same database , exported back as a gedcom to RM3 doesnt have the long wait problems
I've tried the following fixes:
1. Switching off monitoring the programme with my security antivirus programme. 2. Switching off Vista Indexing. 3. Changing graphics in the programme to plain blue instead of texture. 4. Changing fonts in the programme to standard Arial

I love all the new functions in the new programme but the merging is essential, so I'll have to go back to RM3 as it takes up to 5 mins after each name merge to go back to find the next person to merge

If the tech support is testing, they should download a database of over 200,000 & try it. Mine is over 8 years of research that I'm merging with others so I cant split the database.
Other features I'd like to see:
Search & replace dates with <1810> with 1810 so that names with these dates, will show in the search list
Everything else is perfect save for the decreasing speed to nearly a halt, the more you merge
Is there a fix yet? Many people have these problems on the forums for the last year & it doesnt seem to be fixed yet?
Is legacy 7 better for large databases?
Also I'm researching the Walkers of St Fort , Scotland if anyone else is interested, I've found descendants in the Caribbean, England, US, NSW etc