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#28818 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 07 August 2009 - 09:10 AM in Discussion

Waffles, my post may have been confusing, I don't attach to the Master Source, to me the logical place for a document/certificate attachment would be the Source Details but then I cannot easily see it exists. It's funny how we as users often lean towards the way it works best for us rather than wishing for changes that make it work as it should.

I always attached document scans to the actual Event/Fact as I could easily see they existed and could examine them again if I wanted.

A little off topic but RM is getting a little bad feedback and users refusing to upgrade due to the changes made to Sources and Place Details. The current STANDARD is better than it has ever been IMHO, unfortunately what lacked before was any kind of STANDARD so everyone done their own thing, that means a lot of updating now to bring things into line with RM4. I applaud Bruce & team for the brave move of bringing that standard into genealogy software.

If I could see on the Edit Person screen that I had source media attached and I could use it correctly on all output options then I agree this is probably the logical place for it, unfortunately a few program alterations need to be made to fulfill those criteria.

My fault, we are on the same page here. I meant "I am very tempted to attach media documents directly to facts (as Vyger) does." Sorry for the confusion. I completely agree with your comments! -w

#28815 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 07 August 2009 - 07:33 AM in Discussion

The quickest place to view a media file for facts on the Edit person screen is one attached to the fact

If you are already in the Edit Source screen for a fact, it would be quicker to view the media either linked to the Master Source or Source Detail rather than go back to the Edit screen to view the linked media there and then go back to the Edit Source screen to make corrections to the Master source or Source Detail.

If you are in Lists>Source list, [specific Master source], it would be a lot quicker to check media there than leaving the source list to hunt it down to check somewhere else, say the Media Gallery.

Suspose you are in the Source list and need to know if a media is linked to a fact that uses that source for a certain person. You can go to the media for that Master fact, highlight a thumbnail and click on the Tools button. If you choose "Show where this media is used" you get a list of every place that media is linked. For shared facts it shows only the Principal.

The "Show where this media is used" feature can also be accessed in Tools for a highlighted media in the Media Gallery as well as in the Media Album screen.


So I guess I've gotten used to some inefficient ways to access specific data, primarily because I spend the majority of my time in "edit person" windows. In order to look at a person's birth certificate, it seems more intuitive to me to go to that person's information first ("edit person") and then navigate to fact->sources->edit->more->source media, rather than initially go to some "master source list" and pick the birth certificate from there. Although it is obvious that the latter is much more efficient.

I am very tempted to attach source documents directly to fact sources (as Vyger) does, because it keeps pertinent data closer together. Also, when generating a scrapbook on a person, fact media is included but source/citation media is not. And for something like a birth certificate, it seems obvious to me that it should be included in a scrapbook by default. Even though this method may be more convenient, it is less accurate from the given database design.

One solution is to add redundancy (lostinbrave), inserting the media in both fact and master source locations. It is trivial to add the document from the gallery or elsewhere, but property fields (caption, description, date, and ref number) all need to be reentered.

I'm really trying to keep simplicity as a goal so others (family) won't get turned off by complicated use, but I may be speaking too soon because I've never looked at the shareable CD function. Also, I have no idea what level of complexity GEDCOM exporting would accommodate. Anyway, that is a bit off-topic.

If I attach a birth certificate to the Master Source media, is there an easy way to link/include that media in a person's scrapbook? If so, I think that would be the best solution for me. Thanks again! -w

#28804 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 07 August 2009 - 12:49 AM in Discussion

"add multimedia item to the citation"

It has been common practice on the boards to refer to the Master source as source and to the Source details as citation or citation details.

Since there is now only one copy of each linked media in a Shareable CD, I'm now free to link a media multiple times anywhere I want to. Thanks, Bruce.

IMO, the best place to decide where you want to link media is in a Play database instead of the main database. A consideration is what/how you want Srcapbooks to print.

I have always linked photos of people to the name and fact media to the fact. Then it is right there if I'm in the Edit person screen, and I want to check it.

Now I am linking fact media to the fact, Master source, and working on linking it to the Source detail. I'm putting the media description into the comments for the Master Source and Source detail.

One thing to consider when sharing facts is what to do about the media. The media linked to the shared fact will only show in a scrapbook for the Principal in a Person scrapbook. This can be a problem if your report and/or Scrapbook starts with a Shared person. I am solving it for now by linking the fact media to the name for the shared people I might start a Family Groups Sheet or Narrative report fr?om.
One of the first things I did in RM4 was link tombstone pictures to the cemetery Place.


Thank you very much for the enlightening clarification. So according to Alfred above, "if you add the multimedia item to the citation it is right there, ready to view." Where is "right there, ready to view?" I have to dig six windows deep to view media attached to Source Details (citation) in the person view. Is there quicker way to get there?

All of this information has been a huge help. Thanks again, -w

#28796 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 06 August 2009 - 04:49 PM in Discussion

A rather extreme example:

You can use the Encyclopedia Britannica as a source for several thousand people and facts.
adding all of the multimedia items to that source could make finding the proper one a bit daunting.

But, if you add the multimedia item to the citation it is right there, ready to view.

In the case of the birth certificate, if the source is "Mary Jayne Doe: birth certificate"
Then adding the multimedia to the source sounds reasonable.

But if the source is "Birth Certificate" and the citations are "Mary Jayne Doe," "Howard Eugene Smith," "John Henry" etc. then attaching the multimedia item to the citation seems more appropriate.

Yes, maybe an encyclopedia is a bit extreme, but maybe not. However, it was definitely a scenario I haven't thought of (I'm fairly new to genealogical documentation) and the point was well made. Can you clarify that "add multimedia item to the citation" means the same as adding media item to the fact (I just want to make sure I'm not being dumb about something)? Thanks! -w

#28795 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 06 August 2009 - 04:33 PM in Discussion

This perplexes me slightly as well. You can attach such media as documentation to the Person Media, the Fact/Event Media or the Source Media.

Since the introduction of the ability to attach such documentation to the event itself this is the approach I adopted. That does not mean my approach is the best approach just that it has suited me to date. Why I done that was that I could instantly see that I had media to support that event like a birth or marriage cert and therein lays the key to this problem.

Burying such documentation somewhere that it is not immediately obvious seems pointless to me, so when looking at an individual I want to instantly see that I have some documentation attached to support my facts.

Attaching such documentation to the Source would probably be the correct place for it but then I would have to go digging to find it again as there is no immediate indication that such an attachment exists.

You will likely hear many differing views on this and I would listen to them all before investing a lot of time and effort into something which you may want to change in the future.

I completely agree that it feels like 'burying' the document by attaching it to the Source. I originally started by attaching media directly to facts but then realized that media could be attached directly to the source, which seems like the most logical place for it. But then I realized that Source-attached media wasn't readily available in Scrapbook 'Person' reports, and seemingly separated related data. So thanks very much for the comments and information, points well taken! -w

#28781 specific location for basic source documents

Posted by waffles on 06 August 2009 - 03:56 AM in Discussion

I hope this isn't too basic of a question for the forum, but I did some basic searches and didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

So I have a birth fact entered and I want to include a scanned image of the birth certificate. I have entered relevant source information, but there appears to be two locations to store the media file - Master Source media or Source Details media (using RM4). I am unsure which is the better location for the scanned document. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance! -W