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How do I merge marriages with Unknown spouse


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#1 KenCRoy

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:02 AM

How do I merge marriages, when one of the spouse is only a place holder - Unknown spouse?

After merging 2 duplicate persons where the Father was the same person, but the mother was shown as Unknown in the other record, how do I merge the 2 spouses, or get rid of the Unknown spouse?

#2 TomH

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:37 AM

Help > Index > Unlinking > People > from a spouse

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#3 Alfred

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:06 AM

TOM,
For a program assigned 'Unknown Spouse' that won't work.
It only works if there are no children involved and the program only adds an Unknown Spouse when children are linked to one parent.
If there are children involved, unlinking a spouse, will cause the program to assign the "Unknown Spouse" in it's place as the other parent.

You cannot seem to merge them because there is no one there.
So, the only thing I can think of is to make sure the real couple, with the real spouse, have all the facts and children linked and then delete the family with the unknown spouse.

Get the family with the unknown spouse displayed in the family view, right click on the real spouse and choose Delete family from the popup window.
This will leave all the people and the real linkage of the family, just get rid of the Unknown Spouse's family.
Alfred

#4 TomH

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:59 AM

Hmmm, Alfred, there's more to this than meets the eye. I merged a father of one child and with Unknown Spouse with another father of one child and Unknown Spouse and ended up with one father of two children, an alternate name and one Unknown spouse. But, one child shows one parent (just the father, not Unknown Spouse), the other child shows two parents: still the father with the two children from the two motherless families but above him in the dropdown list is another section that shows two children but one child is an unrelated person. It's as though children of Unknown Spouse are getting collected in a virtual family even though U.S. cannot be assumed to be the same person.

On further investigation, this collecting of unrelated children appears to be tied to how a parent-child relationship is created. I think it happens when you add a child to a person who has no spouse, not when you add a parent to a person. I'm not sure if this bug has any deleterious consequence other than the child list under the Parent count indicator, because no relationship is shown under any of the Views. There is no way to navigate to the program assigned Unknown Spouse.

I have also detected another anomaly in the merge dialog that may be related to this false collecting of children into a virtual family with no parent, OR may be an independent bug. Merge dialog with the Father of one Child correctly shows them when in the Primary position but doubles the Child when swapped into the Duplicate position.

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#5 KenCRoy

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 11:23 AM

TOM,
For a program assigned 'Unknown Spouse' that won't work.
It only works if there are no children involved and the program only adds an Unknown Spouse when children are linked to one parent.
If there are children involved, unlinking a spouse, will cause the program to assign the "Unknown Spouse" in it's place as the other parent.

You cannot seem to merge them because there is no one there.
So, the only thing I can think of is to make sure the real couple, with the real spouse, have all the facts and children linked and then delete the family with the unknown spouse.

Get the family with the unknown spouse displayed in the family view, right click on the real spouse and choose Delete family from the popup window.
This will leave all the people and the real linkage of the family, just get rid of the Unknown Spouse's family.

Thanks Alfred,

But it might be a bit more complicated. The wife with real spouse shows 5 children. Wife with Unknown spouse only shows 4 children. When I click the Wife and then right click and select Delete Family it wants to delete the family with her real spouse and the 5 children.

So it wants to delete the wrong family.

#6 Alfred

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:31 PM

I SAID:

Get the family with the unknown spouse displayed in the family view, right click on the real spouse and choose Delete family from the popup window.


I do not understand Tom's post completely.
BUT, Yes, you get "Unknown Spouse" when you do the "ADD - Child" to a single individual.
OR, when you drag and drop or GEDCOM export-import someone and their descendants WITHOUT SPOUSES.
Alfred

#7 TomH

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:51 PM

I do not understand Tom's post completely.
BUT, Yes, you get "Unknown Spouse" when you do the "ADD - Child" to a single individual.
OR, when you drag and drop or GEDCOM export-import someone and their descendants WITHOUT SPOUSES.

Or, when you ADD - Parent to a single individual.

You may well have difficulty following me because I am having trouble re-creating the problem in a fresh database. Unfortunately, I have uncovered another problem with the Parent display in the Info area - as a consequence of creating a family of one father and one child, the father is now shown as having Parents: 1 and the dropdown list therefrom simply shows Children (1) with no parent name and its dropdown list shows the name of the highlighted individual. That anomaly is dependent on the procedure used to create the family - two other ways correctly show the Father (who has no parents in the database) with Parents: 0

There are so many ways to create individuals and families that it makes it difficult to come up with a replicable procedure.

Sorry, Ken, if this seems a little off-topic but I do suspect there is something related as it has to do with the way the program handles families having an Unknown Spouse. Maybe your workaround entails adding a dummy spouse in place of the Unknown Spouse and then maybe you can delete the family and then delete the dummy spouse.

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#8 KenCRoy

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:43 PM

Or, when you ADD - Parent to a single individual.

You may well have difficulty following me because I am having trouble re-creating the problem in a fresh database. Unfortunately, I have uncovered another problem with the Parent display in the Info area - as a consequence of creating a family of one father and one child, the father is now shown as having Parents: 1 and the dropdown list therefrom simply shows Children (1) with no parent name and its dropdown list shows the name of the highlighted individual. That anomaly is dependent on the procedure used to create the family - two other ways correctly show the Father (who has no parents in the database) with Parents: 0

There are so many ways to create individuals and families that it makes it difficult to come up with a replicable procedure.

Sorry, Ken, if this seems a little off-topic but I do suspect there is something related as it has to do with the way the program handles families having an Unknown Spouse. Maybe your workaround entails adding a dummy spouse in place of the Unknown Spouse and then maybe you can delete the family and then delete the dummy spouse.

Well the Unknown spouse was there in one of the gedcoms that I imported into the database. So my guess at this point is that Manual Merge is broke when trying to manually merge individuals, when the individual has a valid spouse in one instance but not the other.

I will try adding a spouse for the Unknown one, which then means I will have to merge both the valid spouse and the dummy one I just created. i don't recall having had this difficulty when using PAF to merge individuals.

#9 Alfred

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:47 PM

Boy! do I ever wish that that "Click to add father" and "Click to add Mother" had never shown up.
It causes more confusion for new people. Most of us old timers just advise, DO NOT use it, Use the ADD button or menu and to add anyone.
(I always used the letters, I, S, P or C. but someone pointed out they don't work in People view or the sidebar.)
Alfred

#10 Romer

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:50 PM

I didn't/don't use the merge feature much, but don't remember reports of problems like this one with RM3. Could be good-old-day syndrome! :P

I wonder if the process was designed differently in RM4 or if the complications of the "+ Click to add father/mother/child" open spaces in the various views introduced more unanticipated complications (or both).

#11 TomH

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:54 PM

Boy! do I ever wish that that "Click to add father" and "Click to add Mother" had never shown up.
It causes more confusion for new people. Most of us old timers just advise, DO NOT use it, Use the ADD button or menu and to add anyone.
(I always used the letters, I, S, P or C. but someone pointed out they don't work in People view or the sidebar.)

It is a very nice, intuitive feature and I'm not sure that it is necessarily faulty - any more so than any other way of adding a parent or child. I am having a devil of a time trying to reproduce the problems I reported earlier. Maybe it depends on what has gone on before, which makes it really a needle-in-haystack issue.

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#12 Alfred

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:20 PM

I think I should apologize.
Click to add father works fine, it leaves you with the unknown spouse though.
BUT, if you then "Click to add Mother" it adds her in place of the unknown spouse.

I guess I liked the ADD - Parents better because I had the opportunity to add both and optionally a marriage fact before getting back to the main screen.

SO, after checking it out a bit more, "Click to add Father" isn't nearly as bad as I had been thinking it was.

Darn! that's the second mistake this year.
Or was it this hour? :huh:
Alfred

#13 TomH

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:33 PM

Well the Unknown spouse was there in one of the gedcoms that I imported into the database. So my guess at this point is that Manual Merge is broke when trying to manually merge individuals, when the individual has a valid spouse in one instance but not the other.

I will try adding a spouse for the Unknown one, which then means I will have to merge both the valid spouse and the dummy one I just created. i don't recall having had this difficulty when using PAF to merge individuals.

Unknown Spouse may not have existed in the GEDCOM; rather the GEDCOM contained only the one parent. RM4 does not actually create an Unknown Spouse person in its database; rather, the queries that report on Spouse and Parents in the left side of the Info area are supposed to output the string "Unknown Spouse" where there is a person or parent with no identified spouse.

I wouldn't say that Manual Merge is broken; rather, RM has to assume that a family with one identified spouse is not necessarily the same family as that with two identified spouses, one common to both. That is the safest assumption to make on merging the common individual. I agree that a good enhancement would be as you have requested - means to simultaneously merge other selected family members.

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#14 KenCRoy

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 06:19 AM

I think I should apologize.
Click to add father works fine, it leaves you with the unknown spouse though.
BUT, if you then "Click to add Mother" it adds her in place of the unknown spouse.

I guess I liked the ADD - Parents better because I had the opportunity to add both and optionally a marriage fact before getting back to the main screen.

SO, after checking it out a bit more, "Click to add Father" isn't nearly as bad as I had been thinking it was.

Darn! that's the second mistake this year.
Or was it this hour? :huh:

Alfred,

Don't beat yourself up too bad. There is a screen where the Click to Add results in errors. I don't remember which now, maybe the link when adding a Marriage Fact. It's heck getting old trying to learn new software to replace one you have been using for nearly 20 years.

#15 gnarlymarley

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:52 PM

How I do this is to add a temporary individual to each unknown person.  Then I can merge and then delete the merged temporary person.

 

Also, I can just add that spouse by number.

 

After which I can merge the marriages and then the children.

 

Note, I can only do this when I know for sure that the two individuals are the same person.

 

How do I merge marriages, when one of the spouse is only a place holder - Unknown spouse?

After merging 2 duplicate persons where the Father was the same person, but the mother was shown as Unknown in the other record, how do I merge the 2 spouses, or get rid of the Unknown spouse?