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#21 Alfred

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:46 AM

Don't use the higher end word processors to remove the formatting, stick with NotePad or something similar.
Alfred

#22 Glenn

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:23 PM

Re: PureText and PlainPaste

I recently discovered "another" clue, if I remember to use it, which negates the need to use PureText and PlainPaste.

Highlight the text you wish to use.
(My "discovery": The text appears in my Google bar)
Instead of copying from the highlight, copy from the Google bar, and paste from there into the target destination.


Good real estate may be based on location, location, location;
but
good sources are based on citation, citation, citation!


Glenn


#23 mapleleaf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 02:05 AM

I have duplicated this issue and added it to our tracking system for resolution. No word on when the fix will be released.


I saw an announcement yesterday that a new update is coming soon. I hope the word wrap issue will be fixed. Meaning, take it away or give us the option NOT to use it. There should be a setting under Tools > Program Options to disable/enable word wrap.

The problem with word wrap is a daily/hourly annoyance. *sigh*
~ Debbie

#24 Renee Zamora

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:37 AM

I saw an announcement yesterday that a new update is coming soon. I hope the word wrap issue will be fixed. Meaning, take it away or give us the option NOT to use it. There should be a setting under Tools > Program Options to disable/enable word wrap.

The problem with word wrap is a daily/hourly annoyance. *sigh*

I have noted your request for changes to the word wrap option in our tracking system.
Renee
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#25 RootsMagician

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:54 AM

This issue is a problem with the way different programs copy data to the clipboard. Some copy as html, some plain text, some RTF, etc. In addition, many websites (especially ones like RootsWeb) have some of the most invalid html you've ever seen.

In order to get the data from the clipboard to paste into notes, RM used to just strip everything down to plain text. Of course users complained that we weren't preserving the formatting. So we stopped stripping all the formatting, and discovered all the garbage that ends up on the clipboard from various programs.

So our options are to continue trying to work with all the garbage to strip out just enough (but not too much), or to go back to just stripping out all formatting.
RootsMagician

#26 mapleleaf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 11:18 AM

This issue is a problem with the way different programs copy data to the clipboard. Some copy as html, some plain text, some RTF, etc. In addition, many websites (especially ones like RootsWeb) have some of the most invalid html you've ever seen.

In order to get the data from the clipboard to paste into notes, RM used to just strip everything down to plain text. Of course users complained that we weren't preserving the formatting. So we stopped stripping all the formatting, and discovered all the garbage that ends up on the clipboard from various programs.

So our options are to continue trying to work with all the garbage to strip out just enough (but not too much), or to go back to just stripping out all formatting.


Bruce, I'm afraid I don't know what you mean as I'm not a programmer. Roots Magic worked great before one of the updates.

In my Familien Register example above, that was all hand-typed by me, copying from a Bible. I typed the information into a text file (probably OpenOffice) and had this:

Name: Blah blah blah
Getauft: 30 Dez. 1845 St. Mary Catholic Church
Verehelicht: 4 Februar 1873
Gestorben: 4. Sept. 1923 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Name: Blah blah blah
Getauft: 28 Dez. 1849 St. Mary Catholic Church
Verehelicht: 4 Februar 1873
Gestorben: 8 Juli 1926 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania


I pasted that into Source Details > More > Detail Text and I get this (after clicking OK):

Name: Blah blah blahGetauft: 30 Dez. 1845 St. Mary Catholic ChurchVerehelicht: 4 Februar 1873Gestorben: 4. Sept. 1923 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Name: Blah blah blahGetauft: 28 Dez. 1849 St. Mary Catholic ChurchVerehelicht: 4 Februar 1873Gestorben: 8 Juli 1926 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Why would anyone want that kind of mess? I don't get it :(

To avoid all that, I have to take an extra step and remember to paste first into Editor. Lucky for me I have 2 monitors and am capable of switching from monitor to monitor. What about people with one monitor who would need to have their OpenOffice/Word/Word Perfect open, RootsMagic open, and Notepad open -- all in one screen?

I very rarely copy from RootsWeb websites.

I know of other RM users who are also very unhappy about the extra steps and loss of hard returns.
~ Debbie

#27 Alfred

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 01:21 PM

Evidently Open Office, or whatever you used, uses something different for the end of line/new line code than some other programs use.
There are many different ways to do most things and there are enough different programs around that most of them are used somewhere, some probably haven't even been discovered yet.
Since there are so many different ways of doing something it is likely to be very difficult to make one little program convert all of them into something standardized enough so that everyone likes the result.

Just take his word for it, he is trying.
BUT: No one can please all of the people all of the time.
Alfred

#28 mapleleaf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 03:23 PM

Evidently Open Office, or whatever you used, uses something different for the end of line/new line code than some other programs use.
There are many different ways to do most things and there are enough different programs around that most of them are used somewhere, some probably haven't even been discovered yet.
Since there are so many different ways of doing something it is likely to be very difficult to make one little program convert all of them into something standardized enough so that everyone likes the result.

Just take his word for it, he is trying.
BUT: No one can please all of the people all of the time.


Yes, I know Bruce is trying. But I don't know what he is trying because I don't know programming. All I know is that copy/pasting worked before, no matter if I used OpenOffice or other programs, copied from an email (Gmail), copied from the internet, etc, etc. Naturally, I'd like it to work as it did before.

I still don't know why someone would like to see a jumbled up mess when they paste. And I'm talking about the Source Details > More > Detail Text screen - not Notes.
~ Debbie

#29 Romer

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:04 PM

I don't know exactly how it works as far as the programming is concerned, but could something along the lines of Paste/Paste Special as in the Microsoft Office model (and other software products) be followed here in RM4?

I just copied something with formatting from a webpage and tried Paste Special into Word 2007 and received the following options in this case:

  • Formatted Text (RTF)
  • Unformatted Text
  • HTML Format
  • Unformatted Unicode Text
Based on inspection, Paste (vs. Paste Special) seemed to go with HTML Format in what I was trying to paste. The options available under Paste Special may vary depending upon the nature of what you're attempting to paste.

*Edit:
Well, I was a bit more familiar with previous versions of Word, but here's some additional information on how the pasting process works in Word 2007:

http://www.dummies.c...al-in-word.html

Incidentally, Alt+Ctrl+V is the keystroke equivalent of Paste Special, while Ctrl+V is used for Paste.

#30 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 08:20 PM

So our options are to continue trying to work with all the garbage to strip out just enough (but not too much), or to go back to just stripping out all formatting.


Please, please, please don't go back to stripping out all the formatting. It's just too valuable. And I can strip it out myself with Notepad any time I need to do so. But if RM4 strips it all out, there is no way to put it all back in.

Jerry

#31 mapleleaf

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:13 AM

So our options are to continue trying to work with all the garbage to strip out just enough (but not too much), or to go back to just stripping out all formatting.


Please, please, please don't go back to stripping out all the formatting. It's just too valuable. And I can strip it out myself with Notepad any time I need to do so. But if RM4 strips it all out, there is no way to put it all back in. Jerry


I'm confused. Isn't text already being stripped? I paste text which has hard returns formatted, but after pasting, I end up with no hard returns. (Source Details > More > Detail Text screen - not in Notes)
~ Debbie

#32 RootsMagician

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:33 AM

I'm confused. Isn't text already being stripped? I paste text which has hard returns formatted, but after pasting, I end up with no hard returns. (Source Details > More > Detail Text screen - not in Notes)

Actually, internally on the clipboard they aren't hard returns.

Anyways, we just posted an update and one of the items is an option to use either the paste that retains formatting, or the stripped paste from previous versions. We also made one small change to the formatted paste which may help a little bit with the wordwrap issue from some sites like Ancestry and RootsWeb.
RootsMagician

#33 mapleleaf

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:42 AM

Actually, internally on the clipboard they aren't hard returns.

Anyways, we just posted an update and one of the items is an option to use either the paste that retains formatting, or the stripped paste from previous versions. We also made one small change to the formatted paste which may help a little bit with the wordwrap issue from some sites like Ancestry and RootsWeb.


In my last post, I meant regular returns (the big arrow key on the right side of the keyboard). Not sure if that is a "hard return" or if a hard return is more of a page break.

I updated to 4.0.9.7 and pasted in my long "blah blah blah" Familien Register example into a Source Details > More > Detail Text screen, and it looks great. My "returns" at the end each line are there. No more jumbled mess.

Under Tools > Program Options is the new box "Use plain text when pasting to notes".

Thanks! :)
~ Debbie

#34 TomH

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 10:24 AM

Sorry to not give more detail. FOR ME (Latest version of Essentials - under Windows XP), copying Mapleleaf's short example from this forum and pasting to an RM individual note results in the following:

FROM

Internet Explorer 8 - immediately after pasting, there are two blank lines followed by the cascading text. Moving the cursor up to the beginning of each blank line using either the keyboard or mouse shows the vertical cursor at two different sizes (top line being larger). After saving, there are two blank lines preceding the previously-pasted text, which is now contiguous and no longer cascades like a list of items.

Firefox 3.67 - immediately after pasting, the cascading text looks just like a list of items. After saving, the previously-pasted text is now contiguous and no longer cascades like a list of items.

Safari 5 - immediately after pasting, the cascading text looks just like a list of items. After saving, the previously-pasted text is now contiguous and no longer cascades like a list of items.

Opera 10.60 - immediately after pasting, the cascading text looks just like a list of items. After saving, the previously-pasted text looks just like the original list of items with cascading text.


WORKS COMPLETELY when copied from Opera. All others lose the cascade. Internet Explorer also gains two preceding blank lines.

I was copying from Ancestry pages on Internet Explorer 8 to Notepad and thence to Note Editor (Source Detail text, e.g.) back in late Feb early Mar. Subsequently upgraded to RM 4.1.1.1 and to Internet Explorer 9 and now get CR/LF where I don't want them. For example, if the web page has this:

Name: Joe Blow
,

it comes out:

Name:

Joe Blow

I assume that, since there has not been an uproar on this topic since RM 4.1.1.1 was released, it is the upgrade from IE8 to IE9 that has resulted in this retrograde behaviour.

I tried Google Chrome 10.0.648.204 and it copies straight to the Note Editor with better results. I have not tried Opera in a long time.

Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#35 kbens0n

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 12:11 PM

I assume that, since there has not been an uproar on this topic since RM 4.1.1.1 was released, it is the upgrade from IE8 to IE9 that has resulted in this retrograde behaviour.

Nope IE8 is still a problem also.
Copying text from above in latest versions of my browsers and here are what results from simple direct copy/paste:

Original text:

I agree with that - it's a grand mess! When I copy/paste something as simple as this into a Source Detail Text window:

1) Sun
2) Moon
3) Stars
4) River
5) Ocean

it ends up a jumbled mess like this:


Results:

Opera 11.10 Beta, Firefox 4.0 and 3.6.15, Safari 5.04 (7533.20.27) for Windows

I agree with that - it's a grand mess! When I copy/paste something as simple as this into a Source Detail Text window:

1) Sun
2) Moon
3) Stars
4) River
5) Ocean

it ends up a jumbled mess like this:


Internet Explorer 8.0.6001.18702

<CR>
<CR>
I agree with that - it's a grand mess! When I copy/paste something as simple as this into a Source Detail Text window:
<CR>
<CR>
<CR>
<CR>
<CR>
<CR>
<CR>


If I copy/paste the same text from Internet Explorer to any other application, I get the full correct depiction like all other browsers above. So, RootsMagic loses information _for me_ when copy/pasting _directly_ from IE. However, if I use my PlainPaste application to strip out formatting first, the subsequent paste into RootsMagic from IE works correctly.

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#36 TomH

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 01:29 PM

By retrograde, I meant that I could not even get the results with IE9 that I could get with IE8 by pasting into Notepad and thence to Note Editor. When you upgrade to IE9, see what you get. I have not tried PlainPaste but Chrome saves me the intermediate step anyway, as does Opera for you.

Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#37 kbens0n

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 01:38 AM

By retrograde, I meant that I could not even get the results with IE9 that I could get with IE8 by pasting into Notepad and thence to Note Editor. When you upgrade to IE9, see what you get. I have not tried PlainPaste but Chrome saves me the intermediate step anyway, as does Opera for you.

I mistook your mention of "now get CR/LF where I don't want them" as being the "retrograde" (in going from IE8 to 9) and since I am experiencing it on IE8 (CR/LF where I don't want them) ...I was thinking "no" to the retrograde idea since it happens in both. I cannot upgrade this old machine to IE9 due to XP restriction and I haven't yet made time to unpack my new system unit. This problem with RM4 not handling Internet Explorer copy/paste definitely needs attention since the average user's computer has it installed by default and a fair percentage use it with Windows machines.

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#38 TomH

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:26 AM

I mistook your mention of "now get CR/LF where I don't want them" as being the "retrograde" (in going from IE8 to 9) and since I am experiencing it on IE8 (CR/LF where I don't want them) ...I was thinking "no" to the retrograde idea since it happens in both. I cannot upgrade this old machine to IE9 due to XP restriction and I haven't yet made time to unpack my new system unit. This problem with RM4 not handling Internet Explorer copy/paste definitely needs attention since the average user's computer has it installed by default and a fair percentage use it with Windows machines.

Mea culpa: I was unclear that it is in Notepad that the paste from IE9 puts CR/LF where IE8 did not. Pasting directly into RM Note Editor from IE9 produces mainly white space where there should be text and IIRC, so did IE8, from the Ancestry.com pages I often copy (e.g. Scotland Census). So while the Notepad intermediary paste was helpful in working with IE8, it is much less helpful with IE9 because so much more work has to be done to restore something resembling the original layout.

Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#39 kbens0n

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 09:17 AM

Mea culpa: I was unclear that it is in Notepad that the paste from IE9 puts CR/LF where IE8 did not.

OK, I gotcha, understand fully now. :)

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N