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#21 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:51 PM

If a new paragraph is desired at the start of each fact sentence, do not add carriage returns to the end of the fact notes as it will trigger the hidden text bug. Rather, revise the Fact Role sentence templates to have two carriage returns at the beginning (one extra is needed if you want a blank line between paragraphs).


This approach works fine for narrative printed reports. However, it does not work for narrative Web pages generated by RM4.

Jerry

#22 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:55 PM

BUT, dragging and dropping everyone to a new database (GEDCOM transfer) seems to get rid of ONE trailing carriage return per note.


This is true, but it's not a good thing because it's a data integrity error in drag and drop, which really means it's a data integrity error in GEDCOM export.

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#23 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:29 PM

Good points, Jerry. I have edited my message accordingly.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#24 Renee Zamora

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:58 AM

Enhancement Request:
Add a Paragraphing option for narrative reports that would give the user the option to have each fact start a new paragraph. And optionally, some paragraph style sub-options, e.g., indent, spacing between paragraphs. This enhancement would remove the need for the above, fiddly, workarounds.

Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system.

The Knowledge Base article has been linked back to this part of the thread so users can be aware of your comments and revision.
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#25 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:34 PM

Enhancement Request:
Add a Paragraphing option for narrative reports that would give the user the option to have each fact start a new paragraph. And optionally, some paragraph style sub-options, e.g., indent, spacing between paragraphs. This enhancement would remove the need for the above, fiddly, workarounds.


Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system.

The Knowledge Base article has been linked back to this part of the thread so users can be aware of your comments and revision.


Some of what is being requested is available already via the Sentence Template Language. Which is to say, you can already include carriage returns in a Sentence Template to force facts to start a new paragraph. For the most part, I could live with what's already available with no additional enhancements if only the carriage returns in a sentence template would also work when generating narrative Web pages. So I would suggest that fixing the process of generating narrative Web pages to honor carriage returns in Sentence Templates should be a very high priority.

I would find Tom's additional enhancement proposals to be very useful - paragraph styles and that sort of thing. My only comment is that such features would still need to be under the control of the Sentence Template Language somehow or other so that they could be turned off and on for each fact for each individual when necessary. For example, it usually would make no sense for the birth fact for a child born in 2008 to be printed as a new paragraph if the birth fact were the only fact for that child.

Jerry

#26 TomH

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:20 PM

I would find Tom's additional enhancement proposals to be very useful - paragraph styles and that sort of thing. My only comment is that such features would still need to be under the control of the Sentence Template Language somehow or other so that they could be turned off and on for each fact for each individual when necessary. For example, it usually would make no sense for the birth fact for a child born in 2008 to be printed as a new paragraph if the birth fact were the only fact for that child.

I thought of that after, too, Jerry. Maybe a user-selectable rule like Apply New Paragraph style only to Facts following a Fact with Note (or following a Fact with Note > than some length)... That would preclude a new paragraph being added to the first fact and simple facts with no notes would run together in one paragraph. Hmmm, then a fact with a long note would be part of that paragraph. Perhaps the rule should be A Fact with Note shall be bracketted with new paragraph commands.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#27 Alfred

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:18 PM

I don't know what Jerry is complaining about.

Wasn't it you who didn't like the way a note indented one or two spaces when you put a carriage return at the beginning of it?
Well, now it doesn't indent at all, it goes clear to the left margin, even if there is a picture there. <_<

I think the note is the place for the carriage returns to make the note a paragraph of it's own with or without the associated fact.
Whether they are embedded in the note or some check boxes to choose the leading or trailing carriage return and/or blank lines.

You certainly shouldn't have to edit the following fact's sentence template!
Alfred

#28 TomH

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:16 PM

You certainly shouldn't have to edit the following fact's sentence template!

I agree on that point, Alfred. That should be just a temporary workaround until paragraph management becomes better implemented. I'm sure that there could be a wide-ranging and possibly fruitless discussion on how best to implement it, Vyger would develop a sample screen if he weren't so frustrated, Renee will confirm that each idea has been logged as an enhancement request and some will still be asking "when?" two years from now! I don't suppose there is an easy solution - the thought crossed my mind whether paragraph style that might readily be defined for starting paragraphs at the beginning of a Fact sentence could be applied to paragraphs embedded in Notes. That would require the Notes Editor to support the global style. As users, we would certainly want some consistency. Then I got to thinking that maybe Fact Notes should go into text boxes!...

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#29 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:48 PM

I don't know what Jerry is complaining about.

Wasn't it you who didn't like the way a note indented one or two spaces when you put a carriage return at the beginning of it?
Well, now it doesn't indent at all, it goes clear to the left margin, even if there is a picture there. <_<

I think the note is the place for the carriage returns to make the note a paragraph of it's own with or without the associated fact.
Whether they are embedded in the note or some check boxes to choose the leading or trailing carriage return and/or blank lines.

You certainly shouldn't have to edit the following fact's sentence template!


Yes, I'm the one that doesn't want a single space at the beginning of every paragraph. :)

There are several distinct problems here, but I'm sure they are all related.

  • You really can't add carriage returns to the note for the current fact to make the current fact into a paragraph of its own. Instead, you have to add the carriage returns to the note for the previous fact.
  • Having added carriage returns to note for the previous fact to make the current fact into a paragraph of its own, the paragraph for the current fact will start with a single blank.
  • Instead, you can add carriage returns to the beginning of the sentence template for the current fact. That way, the spacing for the current fact is controlled by carriage returns for the current current fact rather than being controlled by carriage returns associated with the previous fact. This is a much more sensible way to control things. And it also gets rid of the single space at the beginning of the paragraph. Or you could add multiple spaces to the beginning of the sentence template if you like indented paragraphs. Serendipity! The only glitch with this scheme is that it doesn't work if you create narrative report for a Web page rather than for a printer.
  • And in any case, the beginning of a paragraph seems to overlay a picture at least some of the time.

I haven't looked at this problem in detail in some time. For example, I don't know (or remember) if the "overlay a picture" problem happens mostly when RM4 prints a report directly, mostly when RM4 creates an RTF file, or both. I do know that an RTF file produced by RM4 is much more complicated than an RTF file produced by RM3 (and probably needs to be). I actually understood the RTF file produced by RM3, but I have yet to completely figure out all the things that are going on with RTF files produced by RM4. For example, what's really at the beginning of an RM4 paragraph in an RTF file is typically an index code (an XE code) or some other non-printing code that makes the file hard to understand for someone who is in their dotage such as me.

So I doubt that a simple solution to this problem really exists. It's probably going to have to be a more comprehensive and holistic solution that takes a number of factors into account.

Jerry

P.S. This would all be *so* simple in HTML. All you would have to do would be to emit a <p> tag at the beginning of each fact to create a paragraph, and then have a style sheet definition for what the <p> tag is supposed to do. Probably the same concept exists for RTF files, but the RTF tags are nowhere as well known as are the HTML tags.

#30 Alfred

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 07:42 PM

OK, another thing about loosing lines behind pictures.

If the sentence template for the shared event ends with a carriage return, the next thing, whether the sharee's note or the next fact begins behind the picture.
Alfred

#31 Ellen K

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 06:40 AM

I believe I was the first person to report this problem with narrative reports when RM 4 first came out. Bruce indicated to me that it was a tough bug to find (and I had sent both my database and the problem report). I cannot use RM 4 without this feature working, and despite wanting to go to RM 4, I am resigned to using RM 3 indefinitely. I agree, however, that it does not appear to be a high priority item--perhaps more people use the web than printed media. I am, however, glad to see that more and more people are finding the problem and complaining. I tried everything and found no workaround for the problem. In my case, it happened only with the spouses of the bloodline.

#32 Old Bob

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

.


Revised:
A. This is due to a bug in RootsMagic in handling a trailing carriage return at the end of the note of the preceding fact. Multiple trailing carriage returns may be removed in the Notes Editor, one fact at a time, by placing the cursor immediately after the last visible character, Ctrl-Shift-End to select all remaining invisible characters, Delete. Drag and Drop Everyone in the database to a new database will strip one trailing carriage return from all facts; this, too, is a bug but, until either it or the trailing carriage return/hidden text bug is fixed, it's an unintended tool for stripping trailing CRs en masse.

If a new paragraph is desired at the start of each fact sentence in narrative reports, do not add carriage returns to the end of the fact notes as it will trigger the hidden text bug. Rather, revise the Fact Role sentence templates to have two carriage returns at the beginning (one extra is needed if you want a blank line between paragraphs). You will also likely have to add the :Caps modifier to the first field if it is the first printable item in the template. Unfortunately, if this first field is null, a non-null field immediately following may not automatically capitalize the way it normally would without the leading carriage returns. This trick does not work for web pages.

Enhancement Request:
Add a Paragraphing option for narrative reports that would give the user the option to have each fact start a new paragraph. And optionally, some paragraph style sub-options, e.g., indent, spacing between paragraphs. This enhancement would remove the need for the above, fiddly, workarounds.


I hope I quoted correctly..it is now 2013 and we are in RM6. Has this issue/bug been resolved in this version or does the CR still have to be added?

#33 Renee Zamora

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:48 AM

Issue has not been resolved but is still in the tracking system.

We need to rewrite all the reporting and charting areas of the program as we develop the Mac version of RootsMagic. This is why there is a delay in resolving issues in these areas.
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