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"Place List" problem when "Place Detail" but no "Place"


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#1 wfb

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 07:51 AM

Folks,

I have quite a few cases where a "Place Detail" is available but the "Place" itself is not. For example, Joe Smith may have attended XYZ University, but the location of the University could not be determined (at least immediately). I have not had any problem entering a "Place Detail" such as XYZ University while leaving the "Place" field blank. My narrative reports seem to work fine, but I have just noticed that "Place List" seems to show the "Place Detail" field rather than the "Place" itself in those cases when THE PLACE FIELD IS BLANK. Can someone confirm this behavior? (This behavior makes it confusing to edit Place names, since it is all too easy to edit a Place Detail by mistake.)

If would be great if there were some way to generate a report showing each Place - including blank - along with the associated Place Details and (optionally) the Facts where each Place/Place Detail is used. Would anyone know if such a list can be produced?

Thanks,
Wayne

#2 Nettie

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 08:11 AM

Folks,

I have quite a few cases where a "Place Detail" is available but the "Place" itself is not. For example, Joe Smith

Thanks,
Wayne


My solution to this issue is to put the College or Funeral Home etc in the regular Place, until I get the information corrected. Putting a* or - in front of the name,[ex. -Hamline University] helps to keep it at the top of the list, and then you know where it is to fix it. Since the Place Detail is a new feature, may take a while for the programmers to get it fixed for reports.

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#3 TomH

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:19 AM

If would be great if there were some way to generate a report showing each Place - including blank - along with the associated Place Details and (optionally) the Facts where each Place/Place Detail is used. Would anyone know if such a list can be produced?

Outside of the RM app, you can run a SQLite query against the database to answer such questions. Visit the link in my signature and you will find a few already developed that may well fill the bill, although I am not sure how they will handle a Place-less Place Detail. I would not have thought such a combination was possible because, by definition (or at least our understanding of the database design), a Place Detail is just another record in PlaceTable but has the differentiating properties of PlaceType=2 and MasterID=PlaceID of a Place with PlaceType=0.

I just added a Place-less Place Detail by filling in only the Place Detail field of a fact. This Place Detail does not show up as a Place in Lists > Place List or when selecting a Place in editing of facts. Nor could I use the Place Details button in fact editing to add a previously defined Place-less Place Detail to a blank Place. I could, however, re-type the same Place-less Place Detail as previously created and that was accepted and resulted in no additional record in PlaceTable. The only added record was the first Place-less Place Detail with PlaceType=2 and MasterID=0. As there is no Place in my PlaceTable with PlaceID=0, this Place-less Place Detail does not show on the Place List.

So:
  • RM4 should not allow the entry of a Place Detail against a blank Place.
  • I don't see how your Place Details can show up as Places unless they were entered as Places.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#4 Vyger

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 12:55 PM

If would be great if there were some way to generate a report showing each Place - including blank - along with the associated Place Details and (optionally) the Facts where each Place/Place Detail is used. Would anyone know if such a list can be produced?

Tom is quite right that it shouldn't be allowed and in some earlier build it wasn't possible to enter Place Details where the Place field was blank, I just cannot remember which build.

We are approaching a significant date on 25th March when RM4 will be officially released 1 full year, Place Details was one of my main upgrade features so I cannot describe myself as impatient in wishing this feature to be finally made complete in the next update. You can read all my thoughts on Place Details here - http://www.vyger.co....ce-details.html

My solution to this issue is to put the College or Funeral Home etc in the regular Place, until I get the information corrected. Putting a* or - in front of the name,[ex. -Hamline University] helps to keep it at the top of the list, and then you know where it is to fix it. Since the Place Detail is a new feature, may take a while for the programmers to get it fixed for reports.

Good work around in the meantime Nettie, hopefully we will have full functionality, mapping and reporting of Place Details in the very near future. <_<

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#5 wfb

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 03:08 PM

Folks,

Thanks for all the useful input. I just hope that the next RM4 upgrade will not REMOVE the ability to have "Place Details" associated with a blank "Place"! I find this feature VERY helpful and it does not seem to cause (much) trouble.

Interestingly, the on-screen "Lists>Place List..." display includes "Place Details" as well as "Place" data. When the list is PRINTED, however, only the PLACE names are shown! Very odd...

I suspect that many of the ON SCREEN "Place Details" entries (from Lists>Place List...) are no longer being used. Unfortunately, I don't know any way of telling what entries are still valid! Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Wayne

#6 Vyger

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 04:04 PM

I suspect that many of the ON SCREEN "Place Details" entries (from Lists>Place List...) are no longer being used. Unfortunately, I don't know any way of telling what entries are still valid! Any suggestions?

For any individual Place click Print > Generate Report and it will show you where it is being used. Unfortunately there is no way to simply show those Places NOT being used.

Exporting your file to a gedcom and Importing it again will effectively remove all those Places not in use. However I would wait until the next update due in a week or two before doing that as there are still some issues with Gedcom transfer to be resolved.

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#7 TomH

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 04:36 PM

Interestingly, the on-screen "Lists>Place List..." display includes "Place Details" as well as "Place" data. When the list is PRINTED, however, only the PLACE names are shown! Very odd...

Odd, indeed! I cannot replicate this behaviour. My Place-less Place Details do not show up in any RM4 report of Places. I am curious to inspect your database with SQLite to see why yours do and mine do not - if you are willing to share it, send me a PM with your email address.

I suspect that many of the ON SCREEN "Place Details" entries (from Lists>Place List...) are no longer being used. Unfortunately, I don't know any way of telling what entries are still valid! Any suggestions?

An SQLite query could answer that question. See link in my signature.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#8 Romer

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 05:36 PM

Custom reports does include the ability to add place and place details for each fact individually, but I don't have time right now to see if it might be an option for you to try to collect information for a given fact in which place is blank and place details is not blank.

I can test when I get back if no one has a chance to do so before that time, but SQLite seems to be the better solution to test across all facts with one pass.

#9 Vyger

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 05:42 PM

I noted in the Blog about the recent Expo the item below. I would not call RM the friendliest at aiding data clean up at the moment so I was wondering were these classes at end of February on the new build of RM which we are waiting to see in general release? <_<

Data Clean-Up in RootsMagic 4 - Saturday 9:10 am, RootsMagic Exhibitor Booth

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#10 wfb

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 09:26 PM

SQLite is probably the best approach to my problem right now. However, since the RM4 update is due quite soon - and since my database includes a lot of info on living people - I think I'll hold off doing too much until I get the new version & see if it provides any help... (Also, I'm currently "on the road" and don't want to mess up the RM4 database on the laptop system that I'm using!)

P.S. After looking at the ON-SCREEN "Place" list a bit more, it seems POSSIBLE that NONE of the "Place Detail" entries are really being used! For example, a typical entry might be "14 Bowers Street in South Portland" which I "converted" a some point to a "Place" name of "South Portland" with a "Place Detail" of "14 Bowers Street".

I'll let everyone know how well the new RM4 handles my database.

Thanks,
Wayne

#11 TomH

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:12 PM

Tom is quite right that it shouldn't be allowed and in some earlier build it wasn't possible to enter Place Details where the Place field was blank, I just cannot remember which build.

I might take that back as I was just transcribing some data from a deceased cousin's printout from his now lost database and had to enter an Occupation fact for "Electronics Engineer at Hewlett Packard" but the city was not stated. I was able to pop "Hewlett Packard" into Place Detail and the stock sentence read just fine. This would be a Place-less Place Detail which you cannot currently fetch for re-use. So it might actually be desirable to open it up to allow the fetching and re-use of such in other facts, so as not to proliferate slightly different spellings or formats of the same site.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
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#12 Romer

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:40 PM

Data Clean-Up in RootsMagic 4 - Saturday 9:10 am, RootsMagic Exhibitor Booth


Vyger, since this mini-class lasted for about fifteen minutes, I wonder if it focused on the Problem List and some other related issues.

Did anyone here on the boards attend this one or others?

#13 Laura

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:49 PM

Yes, a Custom report works to show Place details with no Place.

To sort blank Places to the top:
Columns:
Education Place, Education Place Detail, Surname, Given name, Record Number

Options, Sort by:
1. Education Place
2. Education Place Detail

Use Education exists is true for the search filter.

Another choice, possibly better choice, is to use the Missing Information List report:
Missing Information List report:
Check all facts to be checked
Mark have this fact but Place is blank
select from list
Search criteria: Any place, Place detail is not blank

You get the person, record number, and fact. The Place detail itself isn't shown.

Personally, I would use the Missing Information list report rather than a Custom report, and change the Place from being blank to a Place name of (Location unknown).

Laura