Jump to content


Photo

Displaying Groups


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 17 February 2010 - 02:05 AM

I just created my first "group" of names which are actually all of my direct blood line ancestors. I would think the left hand margin group field would display the names in alpha order using maiden names but it does not. It actually displays the names in alpha order but shows the married names of the spouses. So if a woman with the last name of Smith married an Alexander, she would be listed at the beginning of the group as Alexander instead of under the S's. As most of our work used maiden names, is there a way to tell the Group feature to display the maiden names and in alpha order?

#2 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 17 February 2010 - 01:18 AM

A group alpha sort or any other Name sort is sorted by the surname which is entered into the person's name and then by the given name.

So check your surname entries for those that are sorting by married surname.

You may have entered the married surname instead of the maiden name or you may have entered the married surname because you don't know the maiden name.

Laura

#3 Romer

Romer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts

Posted 17 February 2010 - 02:16 AM

I agree in that I don't seem to be able to duplicate this married surname behavior, either. Definitely do as Laura suggests to see if you've misinterpreted the results.

On another note, if you instead elected to Mark people when choosing to create a New Group, it wasn't absolutely clear from the fieldnames what the differences were between Married Surname, Surname, and Surname (Birth or Marr).

Married Surname seemed to imply the surname that men and women take on when married. In many cases here in the States (* and other countries), at least, men would retain their birth surname once married, while women would take on the husband's surname. In this case of this field, it's just the women who marry into that surname who are considered for inclusion. In essence, Married Surname seems to be the Surname from the Edit Person screen for the man (or men) that a woman marries.

Surname looks to be the Surname that men and women have entered in the Edit Person screen, typically surname at birth.

Surname (Birth or Marr) is the union of those earlier two, so in the States*, anyone typically born into a surname or marrying into it.

In terms of counts, then, Married Surname + Surname = Surname (Birth + Marr). I suppose that makes sense -- Surname is essentially treated as a Birth Surname.

#4 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:54 AM

Laura & Romer,
Thank you for your replies. I doubled checked my Person info and I couldn't find any issues. Example: Elizabeth Smith (maiden name) married John Jones. Elizabeth's record shows Smith as her surname. When clicking on her name from the list of all names in the database to add to the Group I created it shows as Elizabeth Smith, but when it is displayed in the Group listing it shows as Elizabeth Jones. The name is located in the correct spot in the group. In other words, the name is alphabetized correctly, but displaying the married name. Any other ideas?

#5 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:59 AM

I cannot figure out how you got the married surname to show up in the sidebar, except, maybe as an alternate name.

You mentioned a group, does this only happen with this group, or with other sidebar listings as well?
Alfred

#6 Romer

Romer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:16 AM

I originally had the impression that all female ancestors were appearing with their married surnames. If not, is there anything unusual about Elizabeth Smith that might differentiate her?

One of my earlier thoughts was perhaps the presence for Elizabeth Smith of an Alternate Name fact of Elizabeth Jones, but I seem to have a similar situation in my database, and that person is shown with her Surname as shown in the Edit Person screen and not with her married Surname. Is there also an Elizabeth Jones as entered in the Edit Person screen in your database who may've qualified for inclusion in the Group?

When you created your Group, did you:

Click on the Add button in the Named Group screen. Next, click on your name in the list (to highlight it), then on the Mark people button, followed by on "Ancestors of highlighted person" from the drop-down box. In the Ancestor Options screen, select the radio button corresponding to "Direct ancestors only", and fill in the appropriate number of Generations. Click on the OK button. People who qualified subject to the selection will now have a checkmark next to the name. Click the OK button. Enter name for the group, click on OK, then on Close.

As with last night, I'm finding some clunky behaviors with Groups that probably need to be addressed. I'll try to post on them within the next several days or so.

#7 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:39 AM

Have you checked for two people, one named Elizabeth Smith and one named Elizabeth Jones. A second record could have been created at some time or other for Elizabeth Smith or Elizabeth Jones, giving you two people instead of one. They will have different record numbers if there are two people.

When you created the group, it's possible that you manually marked the wrong person.

It is also possible that John Jones has two wives linked, one named Elizabeth Smith and Elizabeth Jones is the one from which your line is linked as descendants.

To see John Jones' wife who is linked as your ancestress, highlight yourself as the focus person and, using the Pedigree screen, navigate back to John Jones and see who his wife is. Double click on her name and it will bring up her Edit Person screen.

This is an easier way to make an Ancestor's Group instead of marking every person manually:
Make a new group.
On the Select people screen, mark yourself.
With yourself still highlighted, click on the Mark people button.
Select Ancestors of highlighted person.
On Ancestors option screen, Direct Ancestors only will already be checked. Leave it checked.
If you need to change the generation for more than 10, make that change and click OK.
The screen will return to the Select People screen.
You can manually unmark yourself if you don't want your name in the Group.
Click OK and name the Group.

This will give you the same ancestors that are on the Pedigree screen.

Laura

#8 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:37 AM

Thanks to everyone!
Actually I didn't see the Direct Ancestor option in the Create Groups feature. I was just checking off the ancestors based on my pedigree chart. I'll try that Direct Ancesotr option as suggested.
Ted

#9 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 07:34 PM

OK, I'll try this one last time. First, thanks Romer for pointing me to the easier way of creating a group of my direct ancestors. Clicking on my name and then the Mark People button is much better than clicking on each person individually. So I created my direct ancestor group again. Wilhelmina Charlotte Christoph (Christoph is her maiden name) is displayed as Wilhelmina Charlotte Luedeking (married name) and appears right below Karl Christoph in the group. So she is in the correct position but is with her married name displaying instead of her maiden name. I would think creating a group like this would default to maiden names. In her Edit Person window her married name is labeled as an alternate name as "married". So how do I display only maiden names in my group?

#10 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 08:11 PM

Just to make sure we are on the same page, are you saying you have the person's name entered like this when you open the Edit person screen from the Group?

Person:
Given: Wilhelmina Charlotte
Surname: Christoph [maiden surname]
Sex: Female

Linked Alternate name fact:
Alternate name:
Given: Wilhelmina Charlotte
Surname: Luedeking [married surname]
Name type: Married

And on the Group List her name is appearing like this:
Christoph, Karl
Luedeking, Wilhelmina Charlotte [married surname]
Christoph, Zachariah [made up name for clarity]

Laura

#11 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:31 PM

Laura,
You have it exactly right. I would expect Wilhelmina to show up with her maiden name displayed and in the "C's" as you propose below. I just created a quick "Living" group and the same thing happens. It appears all of the married women are listed in the correct location on the sidebar but with their married names instead of their maiden names. Maybe I have a setting within RM4 set incorrectly? I want RM4 to show persons with maiden names. When using the Index sidebar, the maiden names are displayed, so it seems to be a Group issue.
Ted

#12 Romer

Romer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2052 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:52 PM

Just to be sure, are you using the current release, RM 4.0.7.1? Try Help > About RootsMagic.

#13 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:52 PM

I am using RM 4.0.7.1 paid for version. Are you?

You aren't missing any settings as RM4 is written to automatically to use the Person Surname as entered in a Group list.

I have made many Groups, and have never had the problem of RM4, substuting another surname that was not entered into the Person Surname so I don't think it is a Group issue.

So there is something else wrong. Perhaps an internal index in your database has gotten crosswired somehow.

Laura

--

I noticed on another thread that you posted that you imported your Legacy 7 database into RM4. Perhaps, there is a difference in Person name and Alternate name structures between the two programs and those differences are showing up when you make a Group where you can see them better on a short list than the Sidebar Index list.

#14 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:49 AM

I am using the current paid version. I'll give this forum a few more days, then I'll contact the Help Desk directly. Thanks everyone for your replies. Laura, are you using the Fact that shows the female's married name in the Edit Person window? I am and labeling the Alternate Name Fact as "Married Name". I'm wondering if this is causing the issue.

#15 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:44 PM

How large is your database?
Is is small enough so that the backup file does not take too long to send, could attach a copy of a new backup file to an email to me so that I can check this out?

Email me
Alfred

#16 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 01:11 PM

Alfred, my database has only about 400 names so it is small. I appreciate the offer and will send it later tonight when I get home. Thanks!

#17 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:10 PM

Oh, OH! I am in over my head!
I have heard of this before, it has nothing to do with the married names, but something about the character set or unicode or something like that.
It was a few months ago when someone else had a similar problem and I cannot remember exactly what it was.

Anyway, I exported a GEDCOM file and imported it into a new, empty database and everything sorted as I think it should.
Whatever it was, my computer straightened it out going through the text, GEDCOM file. Of course, I had to recreate the group, but that was easy enough.

It is something to do with the computer's character set, or the language setting.

I will also post this to the forum and maybe someone younger can remember what it is.
Alfred

#18 kbens0n

kbens0n

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3166 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:47 PM

Oh, OH! I am in over my head!
I have heard of this before, it has nothing to do with the married names, but something about the character set or unicode or something like that.
It was a few months ago when someone else had a similar problem and I cannot remember exactly what it was.

*SNIP

I will also post this to the forum and maybe someone younger can remember what it is.

Was it the Search issue for Emilito?

http://forums.rootsm...mproper-results

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#19 22Tango

22Tango

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:47 PM

Alfred,
Your approach to export to GEDCOM and then import into a fresh database worked. My groups are now listed in alpha order with the maiden names displayed. Not sure if this is an MR4 bug or something on my PC.
Thank you!
Ted

#20 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:58 PM

That was what I was thinking of, but that's not all of it, maybe not any of it as I look again.
WHY would a group list wives using their ALT names, but leave them sorted by their regular name?

I cannot seem to figure out a way to get the alt names to show up in any of my database groups.
But, I created another group in Ted's original database, of his ancestors, and sure enough it is the same as his group, sorted by given name but listed as the ALT name. The same group on the new database after GEDCOM transfer lists them in the same order, but uses their given names.
It keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.
Alfred