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RM4 is SLOW


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#1 Jim Belanger

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

Aggravating features in RM4.
1. Using keyboard, if you want to FIND surname COTE (just for an example); and you press CTL-F, then C you are brought to "add a child" instead of finding the first surname starting with C. So, you have to wait for the program to show surnames before entering the letter C. It's just a waiting game which slows data entry using keyboard and this is just one example of "waiting" for the program.
2. Opening the database to restore a backup. You have to wait for the last used program to open and (I am guessing) creating an index because it takes forever before you can shut it down to do a RESTORE database and then open it again. If you try to shut down the database (but not the program) before it finishes loading, you get an error message.
3. Doing a free style source entry and memorizing it takes two steps. Click enter, then click memorize but, you need to WAIT again for the program to respond. RM4 is much slower than RM3.
4. After RESTORE a database, the hour glass icon stays on the screen forever unless you click on a name in the INDEX, then go back to the main screen. Clicking on the main screen names doesn't make the hourglass go away indicating the program is working on something. Again, Slow Slow Slow.
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#2 mapleleaf

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:27 AM

About #1, I noticed that too. I only want to search for a name, not add a child.

~ Debbie

#3 Vyger

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 05:05 PM

I must admit I do find RM4 slow and is is getting to be to an aggravating degree on larger databases. I don't know whether the database all in one file was a good move as generally these one file options do have their downside in speed IMHO.


Re the original post :-

#1 - I have also noticed this which was quite confusing to begin with.

#2 - On first opening with the side bar open there is a considerable delay while, I presume, Indexes are being built and on an optimised what would be termed a fast machine, dual core, 4GB and 10K Raptor HDD's, this can take 14 seconds. That tends to be first load only and on subsequent openings it is much faster.


The general working speed of RM4 is much slower than RM3 and must be improved, it does not prevent using what is a very good program but BIG delays in waiting for RM4 to catch up with the input in RM explorer are not acceptable. I personally believe the single file option adopted by RM4 is contributory to this reduction in speed of access and therefore not hopeful of a return to the speeds of RM3 in the near future.

We are all limited by our visions and abilities

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#4 Vyger

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 06:43 PM


I just came out of a database of 55K individuals and selected Backup. It took 22 seconds to complete the task??

I had to double check that I wasn't using Windows 3.1 dry.gif

We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

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#5 kbens0n

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 09:46 PM

I just backed up a database of 85K individuals (30K families, 80K events) and it took 5 seconds under XP on a P4 2.8mhz 1M Ram.
Apparently system perfomance may vary while RootsMagic's code remains the same. wink.gif

---
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#6 Vyger

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 05:21 AM

QUOTE(kbens0n @ Jul 11 2009, 04:46 AM) View Post

I just backed up a database of 85K individuals (30K families, 80K events) and it took 5 seconds under XP on a P4 2.8mhz 1M Ram.
Apparently system perfomance may vary while RootsMagic's code remains the same. wink.gif


The computer I was on is XP Pro, X6800 core2 proc, 4MB L2, twin WD Raptor 10K RPM SATA drives (data not on system drive) and 4GB ram. Nothing non essential running at start up, no desktop search or anything indexing in background, totally clean and kept that way.

I tries the same test this morning on the same database.

1st load of the 55K database it took ~16 seconds for the index sidebar to fill. On each subsequent load it was almost instantaneous.

Each time I backed up the file the "creating backup file" was on screen 17 seconds, backup file size is 42meg.

Last night towards the end of a long session, while trying to scroll down through the sidebar index, RM was virtually stalled, arrow down key would do nothing then around 3/4 seconds later the highlight bar moved to catch up.

The point seems to be, as others have stated, that RM appears to get progressively slower as the session time increases and the other thing which is certain is that it is considerably slower than RM3. And that point has nothing to do with System Performance, so itís likely to be the other and definately is an issue. wink.gif

We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.2, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#7 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE(Vyger @ Jul 11 2009, 04:21 AM) View Post

The computer I was on is XP Pro, X6800 core2 proc, 4MB L2, twin WD Raptor 10K RPM SATA drives (data not on system drive) and 4GB ram. Nothing non essential running at start up, no desktop search or anything indexing in background, totally clean and kept that way.

I tries the same test this morning on the same database.

1st load of the 55K database it took ~16 seconds for the index sidebar to fill. On each subsequent load it was almost instantaneous.

[...]


The faster response on subsequent loads sounds like Windows cache memory or memory resident data. I saw the same thing on RM VER 3 on a backup to the C: drive immediately followed by a backup to the E: drive. The second backup was always faster.

It also brings up a question about power failures. Given a computer with enough memory, does the entire database reside in memory? Do changes immediately get written back to disk? Do all of us need a UPS to guard against data corruption with a power failure? I always unplug the TV and the computer during severe storms. But the power company can do maintenance at any time during normal working hours.

#8 Jim Belanger

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 06:35 PM

I just "timed" mine on a second start-up.
2 full minutes from appearance of the starting screen to when the RootsMagic logo overlay disappears, 2 minutes and 30 seconds (total) to when the small circle in the index column starts to rotate, 2 m inutes and 55 seconds before the program is useful. To me, 3 minutes is way too long. My database has 149,800 names and may account for a longer bootup but, why is RM3 almost immediate???
JIM.B.NH

#9 mapleleaf

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:50 AM

In my other post where I said RM4 was slow, that was when using Windows XP.

I have the same database on Vista (41,007 people), and RM4 opens within 4 seconds. Ctrl + F brings up the search screen in 1 second. Much faster than on XP.

For power failures, I have a Belkin UPS that buzzes when the power goes out. I then have about 10 minutes to shut off the computer manually. It would be better to have the kind of UPS where a program shuts down the computer automatically when the power goes off, for the times when I'm out of the house and have left the computer running.

CTL-F, then C still brings up the add a child menu when all I want to do is search for a person whose last name begins with C.

RM version 4.0.4.0

~ Debbie

#10 Vyger

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:48 AM

QUOTE(mapleleaf @ Jul 14 2009, 08:50 AM) View Post

I have the same database on Vista (41,007 people), and RM4 opens within 4 seconds. Ctrl + F brings up the search screen in 1 second. Much faster than on XP.

Interesting, that is the first time I have exer heard Vista being cited as being better that XP in some respect rolleyes.gif

We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.2, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#11 deb750

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 08:32 PM

I've been using RM4 since the release. I have reached my breaking point with the search/merge delay. I'm also getting access errors and have to restart the program. I've tried very hard with this latest release but I'm just about to give up. Is it possible to take my file that I've updated in back to RM3 without losing data? My OS is Vista Home Pro.
Debbie

#12 Alfred

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:26 PM

You have to go back with a GEDCOM file.
You won't loose anything unless you have edited the sources to the new format, or added new formatted sources, they probably won't transfer back because RM3 won't know what to do with those several fields. (Free Form sources or those unchanged after import to RM4 should be ok)
Also, any Place Details will probably be lost because there is no place for them in RM3

OH YES! While setting up the GEDCOM export, be sure to uncheck the bottom option: "Extra Details ( RM Specific)" or your sentence templates will be all messed up. You will be back to the RootsMagic 3 defaults and no sentence templates for any user defined facts.
+++++++
Set your Folders option to keep the data out of Program Files.
Either in my documents or just in a new dedicated folder like "C:\RM-Data"
Alfred

#13 miguelk

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 03:19 PM

Note - the sentence templates will be in the new RM4 format and will be useless in RM3

QUOTE(Alfred @ Jul 18 2009, 08:26 PM) View Post

You have to go back with a GEDCOM file.
You won't loose anything unless you have edited the sources to the new format, or added new formatted sources, they probably won't transfer back because RM3 won't know what to do with those several fields. (Free Form sources or those unchanged after import to RM4 should be ok)
Also, any Place Details will probably be lost because there is no place for them in RM3

OH YES! While setting up the GEDCOM export, be sure to uncheck the bottom option: "Extra Details ( RM Specific)" or your sentence templates will be all messed up. You will be back to the RootsMagic 3 defaults and no sentence templates for any user defined facts.
+++++++
Set your Folders option to keep the data out of Program Files.
Either in my documents or just in a new dedicated folder like "C:\RM-Data"



#14 Alfred

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 04:29 PM

QUOTE(miguelk @ Jul 19 2009, 04:19 PM) View Post

Note - the sentence templates will be in the new RM4 format and will be useless in RM3

The RM4 sentence templates will mess up the sentence templates and therefore the narrative reports in RM3 if they aren't suppressed by unchecking the "Extra Details ( RM Specific)" option when exporting the GEDCOM from RM4.
Alfred

#15 deb750

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE(Alfred @ Jul 18 2009, 08:26 PM) View Post

You have to go back with a GEDCOM file.
You won't loose anything unless you have edited the sources to the new format, or added new formatted sources, they probably won't transfer back because RM3 won't know what to do with those several fields. (Free Form sources or those unchanged after import to RM4 should be ok)
Also, any Place Details will probably be lost because there is no place for them in RM3

OH YES! While setting up the GEDCOM export, be sure to uncheck the bottom option: "Extra Details ( RM Specific)" or your sentence templates will be all messed up. You will be back to the RootsMagic 3 defaults and no sentence templates for any user defined facts.
+++++++
Set your Folders option to keep the data out of Program Files.
Either in my documents or just in a new dedicated folder like "C:\RM-Data"



Is anything in the works for the fix for these errors? I haven't read all of the messages but if I take my file back to RM3, I will lose some data. I'm at a loss here. I'm stressing out with these problems. Any advice?

#16 BillW

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 08:07 AM

QUOTE(deb750 @ Jul 19 2009, 06:37 PM) View Post

Is anything in the works for the fix for these errors? I haven't read all of the messages but if I take my file back to RM3, I will lose some data. I'm at a loss here. I'm stressing out with these problems. Any advice?


I have gone back to RM3 and it doesn't look like I have lost anything yet. What I did was:
(1) I created an empty RM3 file which I named DUMMY then exported it to a GEDCOM I called DUMMY.GED
(2) Then I exported my RM4 to GEDCOM.
(3) I opened the DUMMY.GED with Notepad and selected all the 0 _EVDEF entries in the DUMMY.GED and then
(4) I opened the RM4 GEDCOM and selected the same items in it and copied the RM3 selections onto the RM4 GEDCOM thus replacing the RM4 items
(5) I then created my RM3 database that I wanted to hold my exported RM4 data and imported the modified RM4 GEDCOM into it.

#17 isis

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:24 PM

I have exactly the same problems
I tried RM4 beta then RM4 full after using RM3 with no problems with speed on a 1gb memory 1 ghz laptop

I have a 2 GB laptop now with 2Ghz processor. I reinstalled RM4 after seeing the update to RM 4. 7

At 1st it ran very fast for the 1st 2 days but then I did alot of merging. I have the adam & eve database which has over 300,000 individuals as well as my personal family files.

Only after I merged about 100 people , did the RM4 slow. When slowing happened in RM3, I just backed up & repacked the database to delete , deleted records then it ran smoothly. But RM4 has not got this feature at all. Isnt this part of the problem? Is RM4 also now searching deleted /merged people & place names. I think I noticed the biggest slow down after merging place names . I also merged names like
,,,Idaho, America
<Idaho>, America
with the place name Idaho, America
I think it may have also been around the time I did Geocode on the database. I'm not sure which of the above merges , did it but, it was working fine when the database was intially larger but now starts crashing & going slow, when it goes to search & explore names that I want to merge

The same database , exported back as a gedcom to RM3 doesnt have the long wait problems
I've tried the following fixes:
1. Switching off monitoring the programme with my security antivirus programme. 2. Switching off Vista Indexing. 3. Changing graphics in the programme to plain blue instead of texture. 4. Changing fonts in the programme to standard Arial

I love all the new functions in the new programme but the merging is essential, so I'll have to go back to RM3 as it takes up to 5 mins after each name merge to go back to find the next person to merge

If the tech support is testing, they should download a database of over 200,000 & try it. Mine is over 8 years of research that I'm merging with others so I cant split the database.
Other features I'd like to see:
Search & replace dates with <1810> with 1810 so that names with these dates, will show in the search list
Everything else is perfect save for the decreasing speed to nearly a halt, the more you merge
Is there a fix yet? Many people have these problems on the forums for the last year & it doesnt seem to be fixed yet?
Is legacy 7 better for large databases?
Also I'm researching the Walkers of St Fort , Scotland if anyone else is interested, I've found descendants in the Caribbean, England, US, NSW etc

isis

#18 TomH

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:53 PM

I hope you have or will post a ticket to RM Support reporting your issues with speed. Do so here.

The SQLite database engine, on which RootsMagic is built, is capable of being very fast with very large (terabyte) databases. However, in my experimenting with SQL queries of RootsMagic databases, I have experienced some extremely slow responses to what should have been near instantaneous results, due to the internal query optimiser choosing an inappropriate index for a table. In one case, by spoofing, masking or overriding the query optimiser. one of my queries went from around 1130 seconds (yes, almost 20 minutes!) to 0.291s!!! a factor of almost 4000, just by getting the query to use the better index. So database and query design play a large role in speed performance. It's clear from yours and others' reports on large databases there is still some major tuning to do.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#19 Romer

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:07 PM

SQLite does has a VACUUM command for repacking, but am hesitant to use it outside of the program for now, unsure as to whether any consequences might make themselves known further on down the road.

http://www.sqlite.org/lang_vacuum.html

#20 isis

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:31 PM

SQLite does has a VACUUM command for repacking, but am hesitant to use it outside of the program for now, unsure as to whether any consequences might make themselves known further on down the road.

http://www.sqlite.org/lang_vacuum.html


If there is a safe way to do it, I'd love to try it. Has anyone tried this? I could backup before I do it


Also thanks to Brenda for the reporting tip. I tried to describe the error fully as perhaps theres a simple fix on the horizon if its just a deleted items error , slowing down the database search. I think if it was just that it couldnt handle large files, then it wouldnt have sped through the same big database for the 1st few days of use. I think after merging over 500 it really started slowing down hard. I didnt delete any records, I just merged items ie linked & unlinked people

Also, I may try running it on a mac windows emulator, to see if its faster. I found large videos ran faster on my mac than on my pc.

Thanks All