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#1 bentgen

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 10:21 AM

Has anyone other than myself created a clone of the "buriel" fact that includes a description field for the cemetery name? I didn't want to add the cemetery names to the place list that already included the city/county/state where the cemetery is.

It would be nice to have a list of cemeteries that worked in the description field of this fact the same way the place list works in the place field.

It would also be nice if reports could be generated from the cemetery list the same way reports can be generated from the place list.

Does including a description field in the buriel fact screw up GEDCOM compatibility? blink.gif

Bill Bentgen

#2 GarySchulz

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 01:07 PM

What's wrong with adding the cemetery to the places list? It is a place, after all. My places list is full of cemeteries, schools, hospitals, churches, etc. As far as I know this is pretty much the way everyone handles it. If you're worried about cluttering up your places list, you can always put the cemetery name in a note. I'm afraid if you start making separate lists for every different kind of place it would just create a mess and not accomplish much. If the issue is that you want to be able to extract a list of cemeteries out of the place list, that sounds to me like a job for the custom report writer.

#3 RootsMagician

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:18 PM

By adding a "new" burial fact type, other programs won't necessarily recognize your new burial facts as burials, since they aren't exported to GEDCOM as BURI tags (they are exported with the user defined EVEN tag).

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#4 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 02:24 PM

Thanks for the advice.

I guess since I already had city/county/state entered into the place list I was reluctant to duplicate the same information with a cemetery name in front of it. Probably a holdever from other things I do where you try like heck to keep from duplicating information in a database.

I think the fact that it won't export properly to GEDCOM makes me want to conform and put the cemetery name in the place list.

Thanks again for the help.

Bill Bentgen

#5 GarySchulz

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 03:29 PM

I understand what you mean about duplication, Bill. In the case of genealogy information, however, the opposite logic actually applies. "Hail Mary Cemetery" in Rosewood, Vermont is specifically NOT the same place as "Hail Mary Cemetery" in LaPlace, Vermont, and never will be. In a separate list the question would always arise, "Which Hail Mary Cemetery does that refer to?" By attaching the city, county, and state to the entry the cemetery name is made unique.

#6 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 07:35 PM

If you are concerned about typing long place name strings, use the browsing feature for place list.

1] Select the closest matching place already in the list such as "Union Township, Ross County, OH." This will get you started on entering a name from the smallest entity to the largest.

2] Then edit this to include the desired cemetery such as "Springbank Cemetery, Union Township, Ross County, OH." This edit does not change the initial base entry in the database IF you make the edit before confirming with the OK button. If you confirmed the OK button without adding the cemetery name, then there would be another "dangerous" step. Go back to the interrupted entry for the first person buried in the cemetery and add the name of "Springbank Cemetery" as a prefix to "Union Township, Ross County, OH." In this case, DO NOT let the system change the place name for all other entries of "Union Township, Ross County, OH." I do not think Bruce has an undo button. I hope I said this clearly enough.

Selecting places already in the list

In general, it seems to work better to select the browsing feature for place list. If you start typing in the data entry box, you may make a match on character strings earlier in alphabetic order than the specific place you need. At that point, you may have to remember exactly how the place name was entered into the database to continue. By using the browsing feature, you should be close enough on the display panel to skip down to the entry you really want with either the mouse or the arrow keys.


#7 Canyon Wolf

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Posted 10 July 2004 - 11:41 AM

QUOTE
By using the browsing feature, you should be close enough on the display panel to skip down to the entry you really want with either the mouse or the arrow keys.


In the place field of your fact you can start typing the place name and the program will pull up the first match - you can use the DOWN ARROW here as many times as you need to get the correct place without actually opening the list. wink.gif

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#8 Nettie

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 06:39 AM

On the FO mail list, a suggestion was given to use a - in front of the cemetery name and then you would have them all together in the Place List. This has worked great for me continuing it in RM. It is easily removed when you transfer your work to MSWord, using the replace function.

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#9 Guest_Guest_Candy_*

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 12:09 PM

Perhaps adding the description line to a Place would be better. I know that I personally would like one so I can add a bit more detail to my entries. As it is, I add the name of a church, school, etc to the date area so I can keep my town/county/state info just that. With a description line, I could just put the name of the cemetery/location, etc there and use plot numbers or other info without affecting my date or the actual place.

Just my plug nickel on this one,



#10 Canyon Wolf

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE
I add the name of a church, school, etc to the date area so I can keep my town/county/state info just that


Not a good idea - now your dates will not be properly recognized by RM! Could make a real mess of your reports.

If you want to keep the names of cemetery, church, etc out of the place list, then the notes tab seems to be the most appropriate place to put that info.

Canyon Wolf


#11 Guest_Guest_Candy_*

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 06:32 AM

QUOTE (Canyon Wolf @ Jul 22 2004, 11:01 AM)
QUOTE
I add the name of a church, school, etc to the date area so I can keep my town/county/state info just that


Not a good idea - now your dates will not be properly recognized by RM! Could make a real mess of your reports.

If you want to keep the names of cemetery, church, etc out of the place list, then the notes tab seems to be the most appropriate place to put that info.

I did that once while using Family Origins (another great program of Bruce's, btw) but found that I needed to know the cemetery locations for various info requests from family members, etc.

By having a description line, or doing it in the place area or even the date area, when I open that person to see all the data, or open that paraticular fact, all of the information is there, including date, etc.

A lot of my data also includes a street address, which would be nice to put into a description line and then format the sentence to read: ...lived at 123 ABC street, anytown, Blank Co, Any STate, USA.

Again, just my plug nickel on this one.



#12 B Earle

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 12:27 PM

I agree with a need to use the description line. Is there a quick way to modify the acceptable standard fields for the "system" generated fact types? GEDCOM rules 5.5 don't seem to preclude using description for places, they could be read just fine by other programs, since the sentence definition is aslo part of the GEDCOM export.

I would like the ability to add descriptions to other "system" generated fact types as well -- in order to keep various miscellaneous information there instead of in the notes.

Thanks for the consideration and advice (if you can tell me how to make the changes to the .dbf file without messing up the indexes or sentence descriptions).

#13 CLapsley

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 07:31 AM

Apparently many seem to believe it's necessary to put the cemetery name as part of the "Place" information. The proper place to put the cemetery name is in the "Note" field for the fact or event of burial. The "Place" field should list just the City, County, State, and/or Country; in that order and separated by commas. Another point, when creating a custom "fact" type, it's a good idea to precede the name with an underscore and also use the standard GedCom abbreviation whenever possible. Hope these suggestions prove helpful.

#14 RootsMagician

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 08:22 AM

Actually, it isn't necessary (at least not for GEDCOM purposes) to start user defined fact types with an underscore. GEDCOM requires new user defined tags to start with an underscore, but when you create a new user defined "fact type", it does not create a new tag. It uses the standard EVEN tag which GEDCOM provides for user defined fact types.

So the user defined event gets exported like:

1 EVEN
2 TYPE UserDefinedFactName
2 DATE 1 JAN 1900
2 PLAC New York

The UserDefinedFactName isn't a "tag" (it is data for the TYPE tag) so it doesn't need an underscore.
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#15 CLapsley

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 05:39 AM

The point of using the underscore is to keep all custom "fact" types together at the end of the list of facts. If we were able to add a description to each of the "built in" fact types, there'd be no need for custom types..

#16 bentgen

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 07:02 AM

QUOTE (CLapsley @ Jul 26 2004, 04:39 AM)
If we were able to add a description to each of the "built in" fact types, there'd be no need for custom types..



That was the point of my original post that started this thread. There is no description field in the built-in burial fact and it can't be enabled.

I have turned the cemetery names into places with cemetery name, city, county, state.

The suggestion to put hyphens in front of the cemetery names is a good one.

Thanks to all for the discussion and the help. I'm a newbie to the forum but I've been using Family Origins/RootsMagic for 8 or 9 years. I've typed a couple of published genealogies into my database in order to calculate realtionships, and now have over 12,000 of my closest relatives entered.

Bill Bentgen
http://www.billbentgen.com

#17 CLapsley

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 05:40 AM

QUOTE (RootsMagician @ Jul 9 2004, 01:18 PM)
By adding a "new" burial fact type, other programs won't necessarily recognize your new burial facts as burials, since they aren't exported to GEDCOM as BURI tags (they are exported with the user defined EVEN tag).

When creating a new "fact type" if you use the standard GedCom abbreviation in the creation, the GedCom export will handle it. Unfortunately, not all programs handle the import of GedCom data properly and in many instances I've seen dates in place fields, or names in date fields, etc.. For that reason the only info I send via GedCom is the date and place info for birth, marriage and death, plus of course the name of the person. Then I send either an "RTF'" or "PDF" copy of the entire narrative print out. Makes for a bit more effort on both ends, but with much fewer chances for garbled info.

#18 CLapsley

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 05:50 AM

QUOTE (bentgen @ Jul 26 2004, 06:02 AM)
Thanks to all for the discussion and the help. I'm a newbie to the forum but I've been using Family Origins/RootsMagic for 8 or 9 years. I've typed a couple of published genealogies into my database in order to calculate realtionships, and now have over 12,000 of my closest relatives entered.

I too am a "Newbie" to this forum, but have been using Family Origins since the DOS version was the only one available. I would like to see Bruce reinstate custom flags though; sometimes they can be quite useful in searches, etc..