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#1 apw6270

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 05:50 PM

Why am I asked if I want to backup a database that I have not changed, and why am I asked twice if I want to overwrite an existing backup?

#2 Jim Belanger

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 07:07 PM

Go into options and change your settings so you won't be asked to backup any more.
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#3 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 1 2007, 04:50 PM) View Post

Why am I asked if I want to backup a database that I have not changed, and why am I asked twice if I want to overwrite an existing backup?


I agree, apw6270, the coding is pretty sloppy with regard to the backup prompts.

File > Backup > Begin Backup > Save > (file already exists?) Yes > (overwrite existing file?) Yes

That could certainly be streamlined with an option consisting of File > Backup

#4 Jim Belanger

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 09:10 AM

No NO NO, I WANT the program to warn me before I overwrite an existing backup! If this were not the case, you would see multiple requests for warnings on this message board! I don't mind an extra click if it means it will save me from overwriting a backup I don't want to overwrite. I keep all my backups on an external hard drive and don't want any of them overwritten, unless they are done on the same day and then I want to be warned!
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#5 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE(Jim Belanger @ Feb 3 2007, 08:10 AM) View Post

No NO NO, I WANT the program to warn me before I overwrite an existing backup! If this were not the case, you would see multiple requests for warnings on this message board! I don't mind an extra click if it means it will save me from overwriting a backup I don't want to overwrite. I keep all my backups on an external hard drive and don't want any of them overwritten, unless they are done on the same day and then I want to be warned!



Calm down, Jim. No need to become hysterical. I said "... with an OPTION." Geez.

#6 Laura

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 05:26 PM

I have to agree with Jim.

How many times do we see people come to the boards wanting help because they don't have good backups.

I want all the safeguards intact when making backups, and, in this case, I don't think there should be an option to go around those safeguards.

If you are overwriting backups, and that backup isn't good, you can lose a lot of work. So I don't think that overwriting backups should be made easier.

Personally, I don't think there should be even be an option to shut off being asked if you want to back up the database when you close RM although I understand why Bruce programmed it in.

The option I would like to see is an option for RM to automatically back up your database under a new file name in the folder you have chosen to save the backups to for that database every time you closed the program. Or, ask if you are ready to backup so you can close the program if doing it automatically is not a programming possibility. This option should give you no choice but to backup.

When you created a new database, you would have to choose where to save a backup for that database.

I realize there would be all kinds of hollering if Bruce restricted the choices on doing backups, and I don't expect him to do so. But I would like to see backups before the program closes be mandatory or at least have the option to make it so.

I forget or get in a hurry and don't backup when I should myself. smile.gif

Laura

#7 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE(Laura @ Feb 3 2007, 04:26 PM) View Post

But I would like to see backups before the program closes be mandatory or at least have the option to make it so.
Laura


uh ... "ask for backup when exiting" is already an option. Isn't that what you are asking?

QUOTE
The option I would like to see is an option for RM to automatically back up your database under a new file name in the folder you have chosen to save the backups to for that database every time you closed the program. Or, ask if you are ready to backup so you can close the program if doing it automatically is not a programming possibility. This option should give you no choice but to backup.


That's pretty much what I'm saying ... just back up the database, without a bunch of unnecessary prompting. AS AN OPTION, of course.

#8 Jim Belanger

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 06:33 PM

Calm down, Jim. No need to become hysterical. I said "... with an OPTION." Geez.

Oh, I'm calm. You should see me when I'm excited!! It's just that I once had a corrupted file and didn't know it. Then, I backed up and it overwrote the good backup. I kept doing this for quite a while before I figured I had a corrupted file and then it was too late since I didn't have a "Good" backup to go back to. The only way to tell if you have a corrupted file is to do a GedCom export. If RM can't read the files to write a GedCom with, it will tell you your files are corrupted and tell you which file it failed on. Then, you will know you need to go back to a good backup and be glad you had it. So, I keep all backups for at least 6 months. Happy Superbowl!!
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#9 Laura

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE(Ludlow Bay @ Feb 1 2007, 09:23 PM) View Post


File > Backup > Begin Backup > Save > (file already exists?) Yes > (overwrite existing file?) Yes



Hi Ludlow Bay,

Well, not quite.

I don't think a choice to overwrite a prior backup should be included for the same reason that Jim posted.

I envision: Close RM, RM saves a backup with a new file name to a backup folder that you had chosen for that database, then RM closes.

It would backup all open databases to the right folder.

Even the option to choose the backup folder or the program rather than a database that we have now would be OK.

The file names could be the same that is assigned now with the database name and date with the time added or some designation for when you make multiple backups in one day.

Personally, I would rather there would not be an option to not backup your database when you close RM although I realize Bruce would probably have to make it one.

We would have to delete or save backups off our hard drive more often if we were worried about hard drive space [after first making sure the backups we were saving are good]. But that would be alright with me. Better safe than sorry.

Laura

#10 apw6270

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE(Jim Belanger @ Feb 2 2007, 01:07 AM) View Post

Go into options and change your settings so you won't be asked to backup any more.


Unfortunately this option gives one extreme or the other: Never ask even when changes have been made, or, always ask even when no changes have been made.

There is no sensible middle ground adopted by millions of other applications throughout the years: Ask only when changes have been made.

And there is no reason to twice confirm overwriting of an existing file.

#11 Jim Belanger

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:04 AM

Send me your data and I'll do the work for you!
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#12 apw6270

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:41 AM

QUOTE(Jim Belanger @ Feb 6 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post

Send me your data and I'll do the work for you!


What work?

#13 kbens0n

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 5 2007, 02:38 PM) View Post

adopted by millions of other applications throughout the years: Ask only when changes have been made.

When asked to "overwrite" a file (that it does not -currently- have open) ~virtually~ every Windows program does approximately the same thing:
"This file already exists... would you like to overwrite? (Y or N)"

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 07:41 AM) View Post

What work?

rolleyes.gif The two (2) seconds... that you are making into a "bigger deal" than it really is?
QUOTE
Pressing <Alt-F>, K, <Enter>, <Enter>, Y
-OR-
the five (5) "clicks" on the mouse button. laugh.gif

WHEW! I get -=TIRED=- doing that once a session! biggrin.gif (~JUST KIDDING~)

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
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#14 apw6270

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 01:23 PM

kbens0n,

1) The bit about 'Ask only when changes have been made' refers to being asked about making a backup upon exiting the program, and NOT about confirming overwrite of an existing file.

2) <Alt-F>, K, <Enter>, <Enter>, Y only works if you have only one Roots database or you have all your backups in one folder. If, like me, you have many Roots databases, one for each separate unconnected person you are performing research for, and you have one folder for each database with subfolders for things like reports, multimedia, backups, research notes, etc etc etc, then you need to navigate to the appropriate place. <Alt-F>, K, <Enter>, <Enter>, Y on its own is therefore insufficient. This problem is compounded by the fact that the Folders option in Roots only allows absolute paths and not relative paths.

3) I'm not making a "big deal" of it. This forum is for Wish List's, and I wish that I was asked to backup only when necessary, and I wish I was asked to confirm overwrite just once. Millions of other apps do it, why has Roots got to be different?

GRRRRR. mad.gif

#15 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE(kbens0n @ Feb 7 2007, 11:22 AM) View Post

When asked to "overwrite" a file (that it does not -currently- have open) ~virtually~ every Windows program does approximately the same thing:
"This file already exists... would you like to overwrite? (Y or N)"
rolleyes.gif The two (2) seconds... that you are making into a "bigger deal" than it really is?

WHEW! I get -=TIRED=- doing that once a session! biggrin.gif (~JUST KIDDING~)



C:\[path to existing backup file].zip already exists.
Do you want to replace it?
Yes No

If one answers No, the opportunity to rename the exist file appears.
If one answers Yes, the irritating and superfluous final prompt appears:

Overwrite the existing backup?
Yes No


Now isn't that what I already told it to do when I said Yes, Replace The Existing File? in the previous prompt?

The final prompt during the current backup routine is redundant and entirely unnecessary.

#16 kbens0n

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 03:16 PM

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post
1) The bit about 'Ask only when changes have been made' refers to being asked about making a backup upon exiting the program, and NOT about confirming overwrite of an existing file.
It's actually a misnomer to say "when changes have been made" because EVERY time you open a RootsMagic database... the "filename.RMG" file is modified (granted there are no changes to individual's data). Same is true if you open the Edit Person dialog window and make no change (but press the <OK> key>)
BTW, making a backup IS overwriting an existing file (the .ZIP file) which you do NOT already have open.

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post
2) <Alt-F>, K, <Enter>, <Enter>, Y only works if you have only one Roots database or you have all your backups in one folder. If, like me, you have many Roots databases, one for each separate unconnected person you are performing research for, and you have one folder for each database with subfolders for things like reports, multimedia, backups, research notes, etc etc etc, then you need to navigate to the appropriate place. <Alt-F>, K, <Enter>, <Enter>, Y on its own is therefore insufficient.
Absent the amount of time it takes for the "actual backup process(es)"...it still only takes a total of 30-60 secs for a multitude of databases' dialogs to be conducted with mouse -or- keyboard. [In other words... one (1) minute]

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post
This problem is compounded by the fact that the Folders option in Roots only allows absolute paths and not relative paths.
RM supports relative paths:
http://www.rootsmagi...=relative paths
In order to use them, you have to have the folder hierarchy upon which such a sytem relies.

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post
3) I'm not making a "big deal" of it. This forum is for Wish List's, and I wish that I was asked to backup only when necessary, and I wish I was asked to confirm overwrite just once.
Seems like "wording" your first post -that way- would have been "clearer" IMO. Instead you asked a question and subsequent discussion is about how inconvenient (and/or) time-consuming it is in it's current form.

QUOTE(apw6270 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:23 PM) View Post
Millions of other apps do it, why has Roots got to be different?

GRRRRR. mad.gif

Your generalization is not accurate. I've been in the computer field for >25 years and used a LOT of programs (more than you'll ever want to). MANY, many, many do EXACTLY the same sequence (dialog "wording" aside). In fact, I'd bet you can't list -many- programs that DO overwite a file (that is NOT already open) without one -or- more confirmations.

I'll ~speculate~ here about WHY it goes like it does and then reference it in my reply to Ludlow Bay. It's actually ~likely~ that several distinct operations are taking place:
1)RM prompts you for confirmation
2) Then any changes to the database are written.
3) RM then calls "dzip32.dll" to accomplish the compression of all database files to the .ZIP
4)The "dzip32.dll" then has it's own confirmation "dialog" (it's a generic library routine offered for use "within" other programs)
Something like that seems "likely". All that aside, the obvious "implied" purpose is sound and is actually "consistent" with how Bruce has programmed RM with "simple hand-holding" design throughout.

QUOTE(Ludlow Bay @ Feb 7 2007, 02:35 PM) View Post
The final prompt during the current backup routine is redundant and entirely unnecessary.

See the last paragraph in my post to apw6270 for a possible -reason-.

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--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#17 Alfred

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 03:56 PM

Oh, for the love of sanity, DROP IT!

Now play nice chilen, or momma will have to set y'all in a cona. laugh.gif
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#18 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE(Alfred @ Feb 7 2007, 02:56 PM) View Post

Oh, for the love of sanity, DROP IT!

Now play nice chilen, or momma will have to set y'all in a cona. laugh.gif



You seem to be the only one, Alfred, who is having an emotional breakdown over this thread. I think you'll find that the rest of us are finding it quite enlightening and educational. You seem to be the only one who is "not playing nice" by attempting to dictate your personal feelings on everyone else. You are certainly welcome to take your toys and go home, but you have no right to demand that we break up the party just for you.

Your apology will be accepted ..... even though I'm not one of your "chilen". As I see it, I am not beholden to you or your momma for my actions. :-)