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How to Record a Birth from Unmarried Spouses


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#1 Jillaine Smith

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 03:33 PM

I have several cases where a baptism is recorded of an illegitimate child.
In some cases the birth father is unlisted; in other cases he is named.
But the father and the mother never married.

In such cases I want to:

a) record "Male Unknown" as the birth father of the baptized child (when unknown)
or
cool.gif record the name of the birth father when known

without creating a "marriage" between the man and the woman.

I see that page 33 of "Getting the Most out of RootsMagic" explains how to do this when entering a new family from scratch, but how do you change an existing couple (i.e., the data for which came over from another program)?

I've got a parental relationship showing up as married and they weren't.

Thanks.

-- Jillaine

#2 MikeT

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 03:42 PM

If they have a marriage fact, but shouldn't have one, edit either person and delete the marriage fact. RM still calls them spouses, even if they do not have a marriage fact.

When entering a set of parents, or a spouse for an existing person, do it the same way as a married couple, except when prompted to add a mariage fact, just say no.

QUOTE(Jillaine Smith @ Apr 30 2006, 05:33 PM) View Post

I have several cases where a baptism is recorded of an illegitimate child.
In some cases the birth father is unlisted; in other cases he is named.
But the father and the mother never married.

In such cases I want to:

a) record "Male Unknown" as the birth father of the baptized child (when unknown)
or
cool.gif record the name of the birth father when known

without creating a "marriage" between the man and the woman.

I see that page 33 of "Getting the Most out of RootsMagic" explains how to do this when entering a new family from scratch, but how do you change an existing couple (i.e., the data for which came over from another program)?

I've got a parental relationship showing up as married and they weren't.

Thanks.

-- Jillaine



#3 Laura

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE(MikeT @ Apr 30 2006, 03:42 PM) View Post

If they have a marriage fact, but shouldn't have one, edit either person and delete the marriage fact. RM still calls them spouses, even if they do not have a marriage fact.

When entering a set of parents, or a spouse for an existing person, do it the same way as a married couple, except when prompted to add a mariage fact, just say no.



While you won't see any difference in the various Spouse listings, you will see the difference in the reports. Without the marriage fact, the parents will not be shown as married.

I have a user defined family fact named Unmarried that I use in these cases. The Date and Place are unmarked. Use description is marked and the sentence structure reads <couple> were not married.

This gives me a quick visual reference on the edit person screen, and reminds me that I don't have to look for a marriage. It also prints nicely in the narrative report.

Laura



Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#4 JohnG

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE(Laura @ Apr 30 2006, 05:41 PM) View Post

While you won't see any difference in the various Spouse listings, you will see the difference in the reports. Without the marriage fact, the parents will not be shown as married.

I have a user defined family fact named Unmarried that I use in these cases. The Date and Place are unmarked. Use description is marked and the sentence structure reads <couple> were not married.

This gives me a quick visual reference on the edit person screen, and reminds me that I don't have to look for a marriage. It also prints nicely in the narrative report.

Laura

I have multiple instances of unmarried couples. I like your user defined Unmarried fact and will use it. It will keep me from trying to figued out at a future date whether I forgot to insert a marriage fact or not.
JohnG

#5 Jim Belanger

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 06:12 AM

All the replies are good and I also use an "unmarried parents" user defined fact. But, if you already have the mother and the child; to enter a father - go to the child and enter parents (as if he/she had none). RM will see the mother and ask you if you want to enter the "missing" parent. You say YES and proceed. I think I read that problem into your original question.
JIM.B.NH

#6 Jillaine Smith

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:42 PM

QUOTE(Laura @ Apr 30 2006, 03:41 PM) View Post

While you won't see any difference in the various Spouse listings, you will see the difference in the reports. Without the marriage fact, the parents will not be shown as married.

I have a user defined family fact named Unmarried that I use in these cases. The Date and Place are unmarked. Use description is marked and the sentence structure reads <couple> were not married.

This gives me a quick visual reference on the edit person screen, and reminds me that I don't have to look for a marriage. It also prints nicely in the narrative report.

Laura


Laura, I don't know if you'll see this; it's so old! I have tried to follow your instructions with limited success.
I figured out how to add an "Unmarried" fact and make it a family fact. I set up the sentence structure as you recommended. But now I can't figure out how to add this fact to the "couple" who are not married but had a child. When I look at the Family Info, there is no "add a fact" as there is when you look at an individual's facts. And when I generate a narrative report for the couple/family involved, there is no evidence of this "Unmarried" fact anywhere, and I don't seem to find a menu for telling RM to add this fact to the narrative report.

Please advise. Thanks.

-- Jillaine @ DC



#7 Laura

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:49 PM

Hi Jilaine,

Highlight one of the partners of the relationship and open the Edit Person screen.

Add the Unmarried fact just as you would any individual fact.

RM brings up a screen entitled "Add [fact name] to family/spouse?". Highlight the right partner. Click on select spouse.

The fact will be added to both records.

This is the way you enter any family fact such as the census(family) fact, residence(family) fact or a second marriage and/or divorce between the same two people.

A family fact can be deleted from either of the partners Edit Person screen.

Laura
Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#8 Alfred

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 02:22 AM

You can add a child to a person without entering a spouse.
RootsMagic will show "Unknown Spouse" in the on screen family listings, when you ask to show family, but that "Unknown Spouse" will never show up in reports.

If you enter a name such as "Unknown Father" the narrative reports will pint a sentence something like:
Jane Smith and Unknown Father had the following children.

But, if you leave the father out altogether, the sentence will be more like
Jane Smith had the following children.

If she later married someone and had other children, then the sentence would list her and her husband as having the following children

I hope that I haven't added more confusion to the issue.
Alfred

#9 Jillaine Smith

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:26 AM

QUOTE(Laura @ Feb 19 2007, 09:49 PM) View Post

Hi Jilaine,

Highlight one of the partners of the relationship and open the Edit Person screen.

Add the Unmarried fact just as you would any individual fact.

RM brings up a screen entitled "Add [fact name] to family/spouse?". Highlight the right partner. Click on select spouse.

The fact will be added to both records.

This is the way you enter any family fact such as the census(family) fact, residence(family) fact or a second marriage and/or divorce between the same two people.

A family fact can be deleted from either of the partners Edit Person screen.

Laura


Laura, THANK YOU. While I have been using RM for awhile, I am clearly using it in a very limited fashion. I had not figured out how to add a Family Fact!! (other than Marriage which is semi automatic). Because there is this distinction between individual facts and family facts (which is more distinct in RM than FTM), I had assumed that one used a different method to add family facts than individual facts. I get it now, and hopefully it will stick.

Now I have to figure out how to find all my "illegitimate" parents so I can add the unmarried fact to them. This particular town in Germany had a LOT of children born to unmarried parents... (I have over 8,000 people in this database! and it was imported from a GEDCOM initially created in FTM.)

Thanks again, Laura!

As for Alfred, I was about to say that your suggestion didn't apply to my situation, but then I realized that some of these "illegitimate" parents later married. (The town wouldn't allow couples to marry if the male couldn't demonstrate he could support a family; once he could, they could marry.) In such a case, the same couple would be Fact=Unmarried at say, the 1795 birth of their first child, but then Fact=Married by the 1800 birth of their second child. Yikes! That's something altogether different, isn't it? That implies I should put a date in the unmarried field? Right?

-- Jillaine @ DC



#10 Jim Belanger

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:48 AM

We seem to be overlooking the obvious here. The fact that the known parents were unmarried when they had a child really does belong in the child data. If you think about it. I have an individual fact called
born of unmarried parents.
The parents show and the fact that the child is illegitimate is where it belongs, in the child record.
JIM.B.NH