49 replies to this topic

[Laura]

Bruce has been researching the problem for some time. He can't fix what he can't recreate. If the problem was all RM's fault, I think he would have found the problem by now.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the workings of computer programs, but it seems to me it is maybe caused by interaction with some other program that is interfering while RM is trying to save to the disk.

That would not necessarily be RM's fault nor the other program's fault. It would be just a conflict or possibly a fault in the other program.

Laura

[ancestor_fan]

Just adding my $0.02 here...

...and who am I I'm new to genealogy and have been lurking here trying to decide if this is the app for me - therfore watching the FTM-RM threads very closely!

In reading this thread, swimboy seems to have nailed this one on the head - the theme appears to be a conflict with other applications "doing stuff" to the data files being used by RM, namely Google Desktop and the backup utility. This is not an uncommon issue and I believe one that can be addressed a few different ways.

1. RM: Open the data files exclusively for write. When apps try to access the files for backup or indexing they can't get the file and move on - no issues.

2. See if the indexing/backup app can skip certain directories. There are usually exclusion lists that can be built to avoid issues like this. If you are doing this to your backup software make sure you find another way to make a backup. <soapbox>MAKE SURE YOU FIND AN ALTERNATE WAY TO MAKE YOUR BACKUPS</soapbox>

More generally, I would recommend that Bruce (and team) add exception handling to the app. At the very least a top level exception filter to catch unhandled issues that lead to the app shutting down. This should allow the app to determine if this is a file access issue, a low memory condition etc. and log that fact before terminating.

[mapleleaf]

Here I am again, reporting the same problem. I entered one source, memorized it, pasted it to another source, clicked OK - and RootsMagic went blank! There were no names on the screen. I shut down and restarted RM and tried again. The same thing happened - a blank screen with no names. I had previously shut down and restarted the computer 3 times before doing my RootsMagic entering, and had run the Disk Cleanup.

Also running were Webroot Spy Sweeper, Picasa2, and Photoshop Elements 5. I have RM version 3.2.4, Windows XP.

Ancestor_fan posted this:

In reading this thread, swimboy seems to have nailed this one on the head - the theme appears to be a conflict with other applications "doing stuff" to the data files being used by RM, namely Google Desktop and the backup utility. This is not an uncommon issue and I believe one that can be addressed a few different ways.

1. RM: Open the data files exclusively for write. When apps try to access the files for backup or indexing they can't get the file and move on - no issues.

2. See if the indexing/backup app can skip certain directories. There are usually exclusion lists that can be built to avoid issues like this. If you are doing this to your backup software make sure you find another way to make a backup. <soapbox>MAKE SURE YOU FIND AN ALTERNATE WAY TO MAKE YOUR BACKUPS</soapbox>

More generally, I would recommend that Bruce (and team) add exception handling to the app. At the very least a top level exception filter to catch unhandled issues that lead to the app shutting down. This should allow the app to determine if this is a file access issue, a low memory condition etc. and log that fact before terminating.

I'm not sure what "Open the data files exclusively for write" means. Can someone explain?

I do use Google Desktop search and will not remove it from my computer. I need it to find genealogy documents on my computer, as it is much quicker than using the Start/Search command.

RootsMagic doesn't work with Google Desktop and visa versa. Isn't there something the developers of RM can do to fix this so they work well together?

I could also have GD stop indexing certain types of files, but which files would that be? What files does RootsMagic have that GD may be indexing?

For now, I'm going to try disabling Google Desktop: right click the GD icon in the icon tray, click Preferences, then Local Indexing, then scroll down to "Disable Indexing" and check the box in front of "Disable indexing of new items. New items will not be searchable." Click the "Save Preferences" button.

If that doesn't help with keeping RootsMagic alive, I'll let you know.

[mapleleaf]

For now, I'm going to try disabling Google Desktop: right click the GD icon in the icon tray, click Preferences, then Local Indexing, then scroll down to "Disable Indexing" and check the box in front of "Disable indexing of new items. New items will not be searchable." Click the "Save Preferences" button.

Update: During the time that I used Roots Magic since disabling Google Desktop, Roots Magic has shut down 4 times - every time when I'm pasting memorized sources.

My next option would be to disable Picasa2 which is continously detecting media. Will let you know if that stops the shut down problems with Roots Magic. Although, I would surely like to use all my programs at the same time because I use these programs when I'm entering data into Roots Magic.

[mapleleaf]

Disabling Picasa2 Media Detector didn't help. Roots Magic still shuts down.

I've now enabled Google Desktop search but told it not to search the Roots Magic folder. I'll let you all know how that works.

[coopdude]

Disabling Picasa2 Media Detector didn't help. Roots Magic still shuts down.

I've now enabled Google Desktop search but told it not to search the Roots Magic folder. I'll let you all know how that works.

Don't take this the wrong way but I'm glad to see that other people are experiencing the same problem I had. I had thought that it was just RootsMagic clashing with Vista; strange that it is also happening with XP.

Mine kept going blank and/or closing too. I finally had them send me RootsMagic on a CD (I had downloaded it from their website), reinistalled it from the CD, and so far it's performed flawlessly.

[mapleleaf]

Good news! So far, after a session of entering data into Roots Magic today, I've had no shut down problems since telling Google Desktop search to ignore the Roots Magic folder.

Picasa2 has never been watching the Roots Magic folder (under Tools / Folder Manager), so I doubt that's what caused Roots Magic to shut down.

I had originally downloaded the Roots Magic program from the RootsMagic 3 installer file (which I think was the free online trial version), then I purchased the program, but I don't remember if I had to put the CD into the computer. I've gotten many updates since then.

It's great to hear I'm not the only one with the blank screen/shut down problems.

[OcoeeBill]

[quote name='mapleleaf' date='Jun 8 2007, 01:49 PM' post='18732']
Good news! So far, after a session of entering data into Roots Magic today, I've had no shut down problems since telling Google Desktop search to ignore the Roots Magic folder.

Picasa2 has never been watching the Roots Magic folder (under Tools / Folder Manager), so I doubt that's what caused Roots Magic to shut down.

I had originally downloaded the Roots Magic program from the RootsMagic 3 installer file (which I think was the free online trial version), then I purchased the program, but I don't remember if I had to put the CD into the computer. I've gotten many updates since then.

It's great to hear I'm not the only one with the blank screen/shut down

[David Graves]

Hello,
I'm having the same shutdown problem as the others and have not been able to solve it even after reading all the posts. Tt occurs even when the only applications running are RM 3.2.4, Adobe Acrobat 8 reader, my antivirus (Kaspersky 6.0), and firewall (zone alarm 7 free version). I'm not running Google desktop. Computer is Dell 6000 laptop with 512 RAM running WinXP. I loaded RM 3 from CD, but downloaded updates since then.

It happens frequently (e.g., several times in an hour or two if I'm listing to live365.com Internet radio so I stopped doing that. Yet it still occurs (once or twice a week) with no other applications open (except those stated above). I'm backing up frequently but it's still a big nuisance, particularly since it changes the memorized fact to an older one (which I then sometimes forget to catch and fix and so enter data sourced to the wrong fact). I'm down to the minimum programs so I'm not sure what else to do.

[mapleleaf]

Hello,
I'm having the same shutdown problem as the others and have not been able to solve it even after reading all the posts. Tt occurs even when the only applications running are RM 3.2.4, Adobe Acrobat 8 reader, my antivirus (Kaspersky 6.0), and firewall (zone alarm 7 free version). I'm not running Google desktop.

Hi David,

Do you have the Google Desktop program installed on your computer? If so, it could be running in the background and you're not aware of it. Ever since I went into the Google Desktop "preferences" settings and told it stop indexing the Roots Magic folders, I've not had the shut down problem. Not even once. Before doing the following, RootsMagic was shutting down every 5 minutes or so, after entering information and memorizing sources.

Here's how I solved my shut down problem:

Go to the Preferences area of Google Desktop search.
Click the "Local Indexing" link.
In the "Don't Search These Items" section, click "Add file or folder to exclude" then browse for the RootsMagic folders (I selected both of these):
c:\programme\rootsmagic\rootsmagic.exe
c:\programme\rootsmagic\
Click "OK"

If you don't have Google Desktop on your computer, do you have Yahoo Desktop search or any other computer searching programs?

[kbens0n]

Hello,
I'm having the same shutdown problem as the others and have not been able to solve it even after reading all the posts. Tt occurs even when the only applications running are RM 3.2.4, Adobe Acrobat 8 reader, my antivirus (Kaspersky 6.0), and firewall (zone alarm 7 free version). I'm not running Google desktop. Computer is Dell 6000 laptop with 512 RAM running WinXP. I loaded RM 3 from CD, but downloaded updates since then.

It happens frequently (e.g., several times in an hour or two if I'm listing to live365.com Internet radio so I stopped doing that. Yet it still occurs (once or twice a week) with no other applications open (except those stated above). I'm backing up frequently but it's still a big nuisance, particularly since it changes the memorized fact to an older one (which I then sometimes forget to catch and fix and so enter data sourced to the wrong fact). I'm down to the minimum programs so I'm not sure what else to do.

Maybe try EXCLUDING RootsMagic Folders/Files from being scanned by your Kaspersky?

[Jack]

Preface: I am a long time FO and later RM user. I continue to use RM and promote it whenever I have the opportunity. I have experience with most genealogy software beginning with all versions of Howard Nurse's "Roots", FTM, etc. RM is clearly head and shoulders above any similarly priced genealogy software available today.

Having said that, the problem described here is pretty close to the problem that I reported back on Feb. 14, 2007:

Quote:

Sometimes when I am working in my db and click on a person to bring up the edit page I get instead a blank page. An area in the Children's section is highlighted and a ? in the Sex column. I cannot go forward or back, and must close and restart RM to get my db back.

This used to occur occasionally, but now seems to happen more often.

The db that I am working on contains more than 12000 names.

Wonder if this is a memory problem (insufficient?), or ...?

Unquote

I typically use RM with Firefox browser as the only other running program. I don't have a computer memory problem, I don't run Google desktop search and, I keep tabs on what's running in the background whether or not I am running RM.

There may be a memory problem but it's not because I have insufficient memory, but perhaps because RM doesn't handle memory efficiently when the database of names, facts, etc. gets too large. After all, RM is juggling a lot of different dbs. It is likely that at one time or another RM loses a handle and just folds up.

It really irks me whenever a software producer goes on the defensive when someone - perhaps a lot of someones - experiences a common problem. It's typical of them to fix the blame on the user rather than to consider whether the software actually has a problem!

I predict the response here to be another offensive defense.

Jack

[jonczar]

I've been experiencing the "blank data fields"/crash to Windows problem in RM for a couple of years, starting I think with version 2.01 (my first). There have been various proposals in other threads, but nothing which has helped me. Currently I find the RM program unusable, crashing after half a dozen minor edits. Sadly it is my first and only genealogy program, so I'm stuck with it for the time being.

The relevant point here is that I run Windows XP home with all updates, and have NEVER installed the Google Desktop Search.

I think the problem affects only a few people, otherwise RM would have been ridiculed out of existence by now. But, for the poor sufferers, it is a miserable experience.

Some people have suggested it is an XP resource problem. Others a shortage of available memory. Others an interaction with some other program.

I am very disappointed that no-one from the development team appears curious enough to investigate. I, for one, would be happy to conduct tests of possible solutions if I thought the advice was authoritative.

Still suffering after all these years ...
David (swimboy)

I've simular problems in the past from other programs before buying RM. It is Upodates downloading in the background if you are online or trying to do so if not. You might turn off automatic update in XP. This is usedf by antivirus and Microsoft as well as Google as background updates so it doesn't interrupt what you are doing, but if several of these run at once, your memory is gone, online or not. Some download into a file and update at a set time. Good if lots of memory; not so good if short of memory.

[mapleleaf]

I just wanted to add that I have 39,307 people in my RootsMagic database, with 81,929 citations, and 70,533 events.

We shouldn't have to turn off other programs or automatic updates to get another program (RM) to work.

I'm surprised that I finally solved my problem by excluding the RM folder from Google Desktop indexing. So far, RM works great now.

[David Graves]

Hi David,

Do you have the Google Desktop program installed on your computer? ....
If you don't have Google Desktop on your computer, do you have Yahoo Desktop search or any other computer searching programs?

Hi Debbie,

I've tried to keep my computer fairly clean so I don't have Google Desktop or any other computer searching program on my computer (at least none that I intentionally installed or that show up in the Start-Programs list or "Applications" or "Processes" tabs in Windows task manager.). When I'm running RM, all I usually have open is Adobe Acrobat Reader (when I'm transcribing info) and/or Firefox browser if I'm working with online data, and sometimes an OpenOffice text file.

I don't run any autosave or indexing programs in the background, just a firewall (zone alarm) and antivirus (Kaspersky AV 6). I know that listening to internet radio (live365) has caused this trouble for me in the past, but it still occurs (though less frequently) since I've stopped doing that. (Sorry for the slow reply to your help; our 4 kids and 2 newfoundlands keep me from genealogy more than computer shutdowns; and while I do wish to remove the computer shutdowns, the others are much too valuable to do without. )

[David Graves]

Maybe try EXCLUDING RootsMagic Folders/Files from being scanned by your Kaspersky?

I'll try it as a test, but I hate to set up a virus refuge and thus open up a vulnerability. Does anyone reading this also use Kaspersky and not have these problems?

[Helen]

I have Kaspersky and have not had this shut down problem. But I did have trouble with Google toolbar a long time ago and got rid of it. It caused trouble with more than RM.

Helen
------------

[zhangrau]

I've used RootsMagic since it first came out, having been a Family Origins user before that....

I used to use (before June 2007) an IBM ThinkPad running Win2000, 770 MHz Pentium-based with 256MB RAM, for a couple of years, and experienced NO problems other than slow performance. I recently upgraded to an ACER 5610 with Pentium CoreDuo running at 1.86gGHz and with 2GB RAM, running WinVista Home Premium. Quite an improvement in overall performance, especially noticeable in RM searches and report generation.

I used Symantec Norton Internet Security under Win2000, and I am currently running Symantec's Norton 360 for firewall, antispam, and antivirus services. I have disabled Windows Defender, which comes with WinVista. I have clock and calendar gadgets running, as well as the Acer Empowering Technology toolbar.

Unfortunately, since switching to the new computer, I also began to experience shutdown problems. The problems appear to be resource related, since they always, and persistently, occur after 2-4 hours of internet research, with RM and IE7 open. Typically, the right-click button will stop working - in either or both of RM and IE7. If I close a window or two (a Notepad file, an IE7 window, etc.) I can usually regain control of the right-click button for a few more uses, but the problem will soon re-occur. If I ignore the problem, RM will eventually either refuse to open a window (as in clicking to edit a fact or add a source) or it will will simply shut down. I have also noticed that after re-starting RM, the memorized fact will be some previous fact, so I've learned to be careful.

Closing all open IE7 windows and RM, then starting a new research session is an incomplete solution - the resource-related problem reoccurs sooner than the 2-4 hours typical of a fresh re-boot.

I've tried searching Microsoft's Knowledge Base with keyords like "error" and "right click" but haven't found anything that deals with these problems. I have decided to join Microsoft's problem reporting program, in the hope that they will figure out if WinVista is the source of the resource problems.

Is there any way to get my computer to collect appropriate data for submission to the Roots Magician for analysis?

[kbens0n]

You could try turning down the graphics hardware acceleration (a common cause for mouse pointer and program deterioration/lockups)

http://www.ohio-dist...page=hardwaccel

Or maybe ~try~ Vista's Compatibility Mode?

http://www.rootsmagi...p...ost&p=18563