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New option for reverse order entry of places


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#1 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 05:27 PM

This note sets up an alternative method for selecting place names and continues the thread started by Wayne League titled “Printing Place List, RM Reverses the order” dated 29-JUL-2004 with a different proposal. It is most closely associated with the follow-up response by Alan Welch.

Imagine a new option for Roots Magic for selecting place names that can be set as follows:
A] The current alphabetic search list in the place name list.
B] A newly created method.

Suppose that this new option would reverse the place name list just as it does in the printout of the sorted place names. If you want to see what place names exist for Concord Township in Ross County in the state of Ohio, you would enter the following:

1] “OH” assuming that you have entered the two-letter Post Office abbreviation as your standard; otherwise enter “Ohio”

2] Next enter a “,” This should jump to the first entry for Ohio. It would probably already be there even before entering the “,”.

3] Next enter “Ross C.,” This should jump to the first entry for Ross County in Ohio. If the software were to work consistently with the current mode of operation, it would find the first entry for Ohio in the county field beginning with the letter “R” as you begin to type “Ross”. Depending upon your database, this might be Richland County as an example. However, as you would enter the following letters in “Ross”, it would zero in on the Ross County entries.

4] In a similar fashion, begin to type “Concord Township”.

5] As soon as the user has typed enough characters to uniquely determine the general area, the entire list of all place names in Concord Township, Ross County, OH, should be on the screen or at least the start of the list would be there if the entire selection exceeded the screen length.

6] Scrolling through the reverse order list should be enabled to avoid typing more characters than necessary.

7] At this point, it would involve simple inspection to pick the appropriate church, school, cemetery, or other specific location within Concord Township. If the desired location does not exist, then pick the closest location involving the fewest keystrokes to modify it into whatever you need. Select that place and edit it into the one you need before closing the entry.

8] This proposed technique presupposes that your list of places is in consistent order starting from little place name to medium place name to big place name with consistent spelling of political subdivisions and comma delimiters between entries. I have worked for hours and my list still is not totally consistent. I have entries without counties or without townships in some cases. However, my list has 2377 entries.

As an illustration of this method, suppose that you get information that someone is buried in Frankfort, Ohio. The source of the information did not name the cemetery. If this proposed option were available, you would observe on one screen that Frankfort has the Greenlawn Cemetery, the Old Methodist Cemetery, and the Old Baptist Cemetery. You would then realize that more research is necessary to determine which cemetery is the correct one.

9] Since the code to print the place names in reverse order already exists, hopefully this proposed option would not involve excessive coding effort for Bruce.



#2 Guest_Charley Schnellbacher_*

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE(John_of_Ross_County @ Nov 20 2005, 04:27 PM)
This note sets up an alternative method for selecting place names



I guess I just don't understand all of the tooth-pulling going on here. Why not just enter your locations from largest > smallest to begin with?

#3 Guest_Donna S._*

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:23 PM

QUOTE(Charley Schnellbacher @ Nov 20 2005, 06:00 PM)
I guess I just don't understand all of the tooth-pulling going on here.  Why not just enter your locations from largest > smallest to begin with?

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Yes, I'd like to know too. This is the way I've entered my locations for years, and it works great. The only problem I have is that this method of "reversed" locations doesn't work with GenSmarts.

Does anyone know of a quick way to flip all locations in a gedcom file?

#4 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 09:00 PM

This is a quick answer. I might have more to say after Thanksgiving.

I actually enter places in the small to medium to large order such as:

"Old Methodist Cemetery, Frankfort, Concord Township, Ross County, OH"

I agree that it would be awkward to enter new places in reverse order. That was never my intent.

If the suggested option were available, its main use would be to pick existing places already in the place list where there are a number of very specific locations [such as churches, cemeteries, schools, and hospitals] in a geographic area.



#5 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:47 PM

I hate to reply to myself, but here is additional material as justification for the proposed option for selecting existing place names. It also has information on the difficulty of locating obsolete forms of addresses.

Places and addresses outside cities formerly were hard to locate before the Post Office and local government bodies assigned city style street addresses.

I have a letter written in 1923 by a first cousin once removed living in Declo, Idaho. The letter is addressed to my grandfather at R.F.D. 3 [Rural Free Delivery], Chillicothe, Ohio. I have no idea of the physical extent of the mail route at that time. By the 1950’s, the same house had an address of R.R. 3. The mail carrier had to remember names associated with up to 600 mailboxes on the route and the mail case slots in the post office were arranged sequentially in the physical delivery order. Since my father carried mail on this route, I am aware that it covered a fan shaped area about 10 miles long and 6 miles wide. As more houses were built, the Post Office assigned box numbers. The carrier no longer had to remember where all patrons including spouses, children, and in-laws lived. As even more houses were built, letter suffixes were added to box numbers and periodic total renumbering of box numbers was necessary. A new home between Box 500 and Box 501 would be Box 500A.

In order to provide 911 emergency service, a countywide road numbering system relating to the house location in thousands of a mile multiplied by 1000 from the end of the road was initiated. As an example, a house located 3.112 miles from the start of Turnpike Road would be addressed as 3112 Turnpike Road. Addresses for new construction are now assigned between existing road addresses.

The following website is useful for current address and telephone lookups. If you enter an address or a telephone number, the website will indicate the persons name if available.

http://reversedirect...langenberg.com/
The subset website for “Postal Address Formatter & 9 Digit Zip Code + 4” is smart enough to avoid locations with no Post Office street addresses.
This brings up the genealogical information provided by researchers in the past that “Joe Doe” lived on a farm “near” New Holland, OH. For this distant relative, the fact that he lived “near” New Holland, OH, is sufficient. Of course, if it were important, a search of deeds in the Pickaway County Recorders Office would show the location of the farm. However, the description would be by metes and bounds and would rarely relate to modern road addresses. With the current option for places in RootsMagic, if I listed the entry as,

“[near], New Holland, Pickaway County, OH”,

it would be difficult to find the place for future entries of anyone else living close to New Holland unless I remembered that I had made an entry of this type. If I had several dozen place entries with locations known as “near” some town with the term “near” listed first in the place name, they would all sort together in the place listing and would be next to impossible to locate on subsequent data entry. I suppose the alternative would be to check this subset of place names beginning with “near” just to determine if the desired one already exists. To solve this dilemma, I have placed the term “[near]” in the middle of the place description as shown in the following cemetery description:

Cedar Grove Cemetery, New Holland, [near], Pickaway C., OH

Reverse Order Report
All Places with Selected Pickaway County Entries
------------------------------------------------------------
OH, Pickaway C.
OH, Pickaway C., [near], New Holland, Cedar Grove Cemetery
OH, Pickaway C., Commercial Point
OH, Pickaway C., Darby T.



Place Report - 12 May 2005 Forward Order Report Single Place Manual Edit Deleting Surnames
------------------------------------------------------------
Cedar Grove Cemetery, New Holland, [near], Pickaway C., OH
Burial Rachel
Burial Matilda\Martha
Burial George
Burial Jane
Burial Mary J.
Burial Alfred
Burial Thomas W.
Burial John R.

Place Report - 12 May 2005 Reverse Order Report Single Place
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH, Pickaway C., [near], New Holland, Cedar Grove Cemetery
Burial Rachel
Burial Matilda\Martha
Burial George
Burial Jane
Burial Mary J.
Burial Alfred
Burial Thomas W.
Burial John R.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Narrative Ancestor Report

First Generation

1. Mary J. was born on 28 Jun 1850. She died on 8 May 1851. She was buried in Cedar Grove Cemetery, New Holland, [near], Pickaway C., OH.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Bruce were to add the option of using the reverse order sort for data entry of existing place names, it would be easier to locate towns, villages, cities, churches, cemeteries and other places within the same political areas such as counties or townships. The syntax of created sentences in reports would read better for places known as “near” some village since the word “near” could then be placed first in the place name as follows:

“[near], New Holland, Pickaway County, OH”



#6 Guest_Bubba_*

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE(John_of_Ross_County @ Nov 28 2005, 07:47 PM)



Place names, as specificed in the GEDCOM standard, are described as "jurisdictional" and are further specified as being listed in order from largest to smallest.

Village, town, city, township, precinct, county, borough, parish, state, country, etc. are jurisdictions.

"Near" is not. Just include "near" in your explanatory notes about the event and stop this pettifogging.

#7 Jim Belanger

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 07:16 AM

Never heard of "Pettifoggin"! Is that in the "Help" files? Place names?? Well, is Pinewood Cemetery, Ocala, Beaumont Co, Ariz a place name? Seems to me that Ocala, Beaumond Co, Ariz is a place name and Pinewood Cemetery or Faith Baptist Church or 32 Singleton Street are not. A field indicating "Cemetery" or "Church" or even just "Location" to define the cemetery, church, town hall, "At Home", in the case of some who are born or baptised "At Home" would be something very useful and clarifying. I'm not sure this is pertinent or pettifogging?
JIM.B.NH

#8 Romer

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:22 AM

Thanks for the historical information regarding addresses, which was interesting reading.

In the meantime, another option for your "near" dilemma might be to enter "New Holland [near]" as the city/town name for sorting purposes:

“New Holland [near], Pickaway County, OH"

"New Holland [near]" would hopefully sort just after "New Holland" in the place list. I think I prefer the suggestion to include the fact that it was near a particular city/town in the notes, but see why you might want to indicate that information in the place description.

As to place description, I'm not sure I follow why a particular cemetery, church, hospital, etc. couldn't be considered to be a place for purposes of data entry. I know a number of people who preface the city/town, county, state, country identifier with that more specific physical location. I've also seen it instead be given in the notes to a particular fact. As long as the data entry is consistent, the methodology should be fine.

#9 Guest_Bubba_*

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:28 AM

QUOTE(Jim Belanger @ Nov 29 2005, 06:16 AM)
Never heard of "Pettifoggin"!  Is that in the "Help" files?  Place names??  Well, is Pinewood Cemetery, Ocala, Beaumont Co, Ariz  a place name?  Seems to me that Ocala, Beaumond Co, Ariz is a place name and Pinewood Cemetery or Faith Baptist Church or 32 Singleton Street are not.  A field indicating "Cemetery" or "Church" or even just "Location" to define the cemetery, church, town hall, "At Home", in the case of some who are born or baptised "At Home" would be something very useful and clarifying.  I'm not sure this is pertinent or pettifogging?

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Jurisdiction generally means a physical area defined by boundaries that is used for purposes of government, voting, taxation, public services, etc.

One who pettifogs is often guilty of bickering, brabbling, niggling, quibbling and squabbling, too. biggrin.gif