Jump to content


Photo

How to add Apposition with Commas in Name?


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 psinacio

psinacio

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 06:28 AM

Hi,

 

I am trying to add apposition with commas to the name of some of my ancestors.

 

Unlike English, that we can use apposition without commas like in "Alexander the great", in Portuguese, we must use a comma. eg. "Alexandre, o Grande"
How can I add this using RM? I tried using it as a suffix. But if I set it to ", o Grande", it adds an extra weird space resulting in "Alexandre , o Grande".
I could add a comma to the end of the name "Alexandre,", but it is definitely not a good approach, just an workaround... 
 

Any idea how GEDCOM has imagine this issue?

 

Regards,

Pedro



#2 KFN

KFN

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 346 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 09:31 AM

Names are always a little tricky in GEDCOM and how that information is interpreted by the software.

 

For my education, in Portuguese, do naming customs always place nicknames following the surname?  I know in several other naming customs the nickname is placed following the surname, for example if the actor John Wayne was written using a German custom or in some customs other English genealogical circles, he would be entered as: John Wayne, “Duke”.

 

Since “the Great” is a nickname, I would enter that into the nickname field to allow the software to organize it properly based on the custom you desire, HOWEVER, RM does not have that feature, and that does not work.

 

Therefore, if all you want is a proper display of the name in RM I would enter the “Alexandre, o Grande” in the given name field.  It is not technically correct, but will give you the best display.



#3 psinacio

psinacio

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 11:39 AM

I agree, it is really tricky!  :wacko: 

In Portuguese we always place it after the surname using a comma to separate them: "Alexander, the Great"

But for us we do not see it as a "nickname", we do see it as "apposition" (I believe this is the technical name in English, not sure).
https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Apposition

It is word, usually an adjective or phrase used to explain or complement the actual name.

Nicknames, on the other hand, are more like a shortened or modified variation on a person's real name, like using Bill instead of William, Beth instead of Elizabeth.... 

So, in my understanding "the Great" is not a nickname, since it is not replacing Alexander, but actually adding information to it. I see it as a kind of suffix, in the lack of better option...

Probably the only solution is to place everything in the given name field as you suggested. But I kind of believe GEDCOM had some formal approach for this...  :D 



#4 KFN

KFN

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 346 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 12:05 PM

An apposition is in English is an equivalent noun, much like am alias word, “my brother” is an apposition to “Scott” in the sentence:  We had a party with my brother, Scott.

 

“The Great” would be more like an additional definition of who Alexander is, as opposed to Alexander the Weak.

 

GEDCOM has trouble with these type of names, and most people would not understand the use nor do most programs.  
 

Just like people having multiple surnames is not well supported by programs, or the fact that many of my relatives in Norway never had a surname before 1924, or that some in Iceland still don’t!

 

Surname suffix could be the right place, but most programs would follow US custom of placing it at the end of the name but adding the required space before the value.



#5 psinacio

psinacio

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 12:25 PM

Thanks,

 

I believe I will have to live with the solution of placing everything in the given name field for while.. 



#6 KFN

KFN

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 346 posts

Posted 13 January 2021 - 01:36 PM

It is kind of like the dilemma that one would have with names like:

 

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci,  Piero is his father’s first name, and Vinci is the name of the town where he was born.

 

None of that goes in the surname, so therefore all of it must go into either the given name or the surname suffix.

 

Or my grandfather Olaf Olsen, where Olsen was a patronymic of his father Ole and his sister went by Marta Olesdotter!

 

My father would have been Jarl Olafsen but he did not want a patronymic name and was allowed to take a different permanent surname.