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#1 tmduffy52

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 04:49 PM

I know there still isn't an date for the RM8 release, but it's been months since "the end of the year". Any hints? Are we looking at the end of 2020?

 



#2 J P

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:44 AM

I know there still isn't an date for the RM8 release, but it's been months since "the end of the year". Any hints? Are we looking at the end of 2020?

 


Interesting question. For Mac users, we may be faced with ARM based Macs (“Apple silicon”) by then when it will be a good question as to whether RM8 will run in native mode or whether it will have to run under Rosetta 2, which is a sort of Intel translation function provided by the then latest version of MacOS, Big Sur. I guess it will depend to some extent on the development environment being used for RM8. Aren’t forums fun.



#3 Vyger

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 05:02 AM

This question is bouncing about again, my opinion below from a few days ago on the Wish List thread;

 

 

 

The following are just my opinions and personal position regarding my genealogy software position in 2020. New software versions are not yearly events like they were in years past and there have been new versions of the likes of FTM and some others last year and recently. Rootsmagic version 7 was released November 2014 iirc so over 5 years old and retaining inherent inbuilt problems which users continued to object to, the sneak previews we have seen thus far have indicated a very welcome move beyond such counter-productive functionality but what about the general research features which are available in other programs?

 

I have reluctantly moved to Family Historian V6 as it embodies many of the features which are helpful and productive to my research although I still maintain RM in step so effectively using two programs for different needs. Family Historian is less well known outside USA but is a major competitor to RM and is also due an upgrade to version 7 which was predicted "early 2020" and we still await just like RM users. Family Historian version 6 was released April 2016 so 18 months after RM7, and in my opinion the general functionality far outstrips RM7 but there is no Ancestry Treeshare which has slowed general RM development but yet many RM users would not be without. Family Historian does not currently offer a Mac version and again many RM users are looking forward to a native Mac version of Rootsmagic albeit a small market share, FH does run well on emulators.

 

So to 2020 and the release of RM8 and FH7, I believe there is an element of who will declare first and we must wait and see. I see my choice of the best vehicle for my research as a long term decision, possibly 5 years, so I am happy to use two programs side by side for a year or so to enable me to choose the winner for the years to come. I have watched the video demonstrations of RM8 with great interest and have to say that is some regards some features still fall short of what is currently available in FH6, I would hope these gaps would be closed and personally I am happy to wait for that to happen. As a long term user of FO/RM and a quite active poster on this Wish List I am not prepared to invest additional personal time regurgitating previous wishes and entering another cycle of wishing with Rootsmagic development, I believe it's now time to deliver on the considerable investment of dedicated users over many years.

 

So far Rootsmagic have indicated corrections to a poorly designed and non productive interface which was a design mistake of the past, whilst many users herald this as new features they can't wait to get their hands on they are not true enhancements in my opinion. I do hope what has been demonstrated is the least users would expect and that the big hitters for new version marketing are still to be declared, if not then I would fear for the product future. Feature rumours for FH7 are also out there and FH7 has a stronger market appeal to non USA markets, RM would be well aware of these feature rumours and must decide how to respond and also whether to wait for release post FH7 release.

 

So in short I would prefer to wait for a program which fulfils all my needs for possibly the next 5 years rather than start employing workarounds in a half-baked product, I am entitled to a free upgrade to FH7 but I have not yet invested in RM8 as I really need to see if it can offer me the power, reporting and mapping which I desire for a productive research future.



 


Keeping ones customers and their important views at a distance is never a good approach

 

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Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 06:22 AM

Interesting question. For Mac users, we may be faced with ARM based Macs (“Apple silicon”) by then when it will be a good question as to whether RM8 will run in native mode or whether it will have to run under Rosetta 2, which is a sort of Intel translation function provided by the then latest version of MacOS, Big Sur. I guess it will depend to some extent on the development environment being used for RM8. Aren’t forums fun.

 

I don't keep up with such things as much now as I did before I retired. So it's big news to me that Apple has decided to move away from Intel. I always thought that when they moved to Intel in the first place that it was huge progress both for Apple and for the industry as a whole. So we will just have to see what happens to the computing world after Apple moves away from Intel. And wouldn't it be ironic after RM has moved mountains to have a common code base for RM8 that will run on both Windows and Mac if that common code base would not run on a Mac. I have no knowledge one way or the other what's going to happen with RM8's common code base on the new Mac hardware. I suspect it will be just fine. But as I said, wouldn't it be ironic if it's not just fine.

 

Jerry



#5 TomH

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 10:06 AM

What Apple announced and how apps for MacOS are supposed to be compatible yet there are various offerings for transition... https://www.zdnet.co...-more-like-ios/

 

What the development platform says about ARM and MacOS (nothing in the same breath): https://www.embarcad...products/delphi . Download the RAD Studio Feature Matrix


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#6 mjashby

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 11:37 AM

Can't imagine that small scale apple developers who rely on home software purchasers for an income will be queuing to buy first release new apple hardware that can't also run existing x86 software. They are already becoming thoroughly disenchanted with the Apple dictatorship, which is increasingly imposing new restrictions and requirements with every OS release.  As a long-term user I'm also getting increasingly disenchanted by a company that cannot get its existing OS version right, evidenced by the fact that after 6 months we are already up to MacOS 10.15.6, with monthly updates and supplementary updates averaging well in excess of 3Gb downloads per month.

 

Nor can I see the majority of Mac users rushing to purchase new hardware that may not be compatible with existing peripherals and software and which is incapable of dual booting or virtualising x86 Operating systems which would eliminate the capability advantage of current hardware.

 

Personally, each Mac that I have purchased has lasted at least 10 years, so why on earth would I want to rush to purchase a new hardware platform.  I purchase the hardware because of proven long-term durability and performance, i.e I still have access to fully functional MacBook Pros from 2011, 2013 and 2019 so I'm now good until at least 2025 and I'm confident that the Office and Family History applications I'm likely to use, including RootsMagic 8 (and possibly 9), plus others I regularly use will still function well on them.  If Apple wishes to commit business suicide before then there will always be suitable alternatives.


MJA

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Windows Genealogy Software: Family Historian 6, Ancestral Sources, RootsMagic 7, Behold, Charting Companion


#7 tmduffy52

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 12:32 PM

How did my question/comment about RM8 end up being a discussion about Apple?



#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 02:55 PM

How did my question/comment about RM8 end up being a discussion about Apple?

 

In a certain sense, the two questions MIGHT BE inseparable. One major objective for RM8 is native Mac support. But before RM8 has even been released, Apple has announced a conversion from Intel processors to Apple's own ARM processors. So the question then becomes:will RM8's new native Mac support work on Apple's new ARM processors? I suspect it will, but we won't know for sure until we know for sure.

 

Jerry



#9 Bob C

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 03:56 PM

From Facebook

 

oJUaDQAiBQe.png
This will not affect RootsMagic 8. As others have pointed out,
1) The new ARM-based Macs won’t even be available until the end of the year,
2) Intel-based Macs will be available and usable for years to come, so the transition will be gradual, and
3) Apple’s “Rosetta 2” emulation layer ensures that all your existing 64-bit Mac software will run fine on the new Macs.


#10 J P

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 01:21 AM

 

From Facebook

 

oJUaDQAiBQe.png
This will not affect RootsMagic 8. As others have pointed out,
1) The new ARM-based Macs won’t even be available until the end of the year,
2) Intel-based Macs will be available and usable for years to come, so the transition will be gradual, and
3) Apple’s “Rosetta 2” emulation layer ensures that all your existing 64-bit Mac software will run fine on the new Macs.

 


As I started this diversion, I thought I would expand a little on what Bob has correctly stated in a hope to close this off.

 

Having followed the link provided by TomH to the cross-platform development tool being used for RM8, the last stage of packaging the Mac version for distribution involves the use of an Apple provided development tool, Xcode  Running on a Mac. When using that tool, one specifies the target environment where the program is to execute - the tool is used generate/package iOS apps as well as Mac applications.

 

When generating Mac programs, it has been creating programs for the Intel architecture only. However, the latest version can generate programs for Intel, ARM, or “Universal”, the latter including code that can run on both Intel or ARM (Apple Silicon). By default, it will now generate Universal code, but can be set to generate Intel only or ARM only code. In the RM8 case, it may need some tweaking of the output from the development tool to successfully generate a Universal version that will run on ARM. These tweaks, which are expected to be minor, would be up to the developer of that tool, not RM development.

 

If RM8 for Mac isn’t initially shipped as a Universal program, then as Bob says it will still run on ARM by automatically invoking Rosetta2. This is more a translation tool rather than emulation or dynamic interpretation, and this usually occurs once at program installation time rather than at every program load. It involves scanning the Intel machine code and generating appropriate ARM code.

 

I hope that helps rather than muddying the water further.



#11 Rooty

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 04:32 PM

mjashby:  

 

apple supports 3 OS versions. beyond that you are at risk for malware attacks which are no longer patched. You also are way behind on software features and unable to update the apps that you use. Not prudent.

 

tmduffy52:

 

RM8 really is about Bruce's mac customers. We desperately need a native program instead of a codeweaver kludge app.

Also, apple's switch to it's own 5 nanometer integrated all in one chip is the kiss of death for Intel within a few years. Intel is still struggling to make decent 14 nm single cpu chips with low performance and high power and heat requirements years behind it's own deadlines. This is the phone chip market all over again and even microsoft is porting it's apps to the arm platform.



#12 mjashby

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 08:47 AM

Sorry Rooty, but if you think Apple is going to risk abandoning all of the conservative business customers that it relies on for future revenue, but who are unlikely to move en masse to a completely new platform before it is fully tested and is proven to be capable of running their essential software, then you must be living in cloud cuckoo land. If Microsoft is struggling to get x86/x64 software to run on Qualcomm Arm Processors, which it is, then why should anyone think Apple, which has already forced developers and users to completely abandon 32-bit software, will fare any better.  Also, no-one seems to have yet questioned whether Intel and AMD are simply going to roll over and let Apple and Qualcomm take over the CPU market without a fight.  Why did Apple move to Intel in the first place? - Answer: Because it was increasingly becoming an irrelevance in the market by ploughing its own distinct furrow.

 

As far as my prudence is concerned, I already use multiple operating systems quite happily and securely; and have set up fully functional Linux Systems on Apple hardware which can run the Windows software I still need at native speed with no problem. I can also legitimately run Windows and MacOS Virtual Machines on that platform if and when the need arises. As far as Apple software goes I don't (and won't) use any branded software that doesn't have a native compatible version on Linux and/or Windows, so I have ensured that I am not locked in to any self-enforced loyalty to Apple/Apple software.


MJA

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#13 Rooty

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 09:22 AM

Sorry Rooty, but if you think Apple is going to risk abandoning all of the conservative business customers that it relies on for future revenue, but who are unlikely to move en masse to a completely new platform before it is fully tested and is proven to be capable of running their essential software, then you must be living in cloud cuckoo land. If Microsoft is struggling to get x86/x64 software to run on Qualcomm Arm Processors, which it is, then why should anyone think Apple, which has already forced developers and users to completely abandon 32-bit software, will fare any better.  Also, no-one seems to have yet questioned whether Intel and AMD are simply going to roll over and let Apple and Qualcomm take over the CPU market without a fight.  Why did Apple move to Intel in the first place? - Answer: Because it was increasingly becoming an irrelevance in the market by ploughing its own distinct furrow.

 

As far as my prudence is concerned, I already use multiple operating systems quite happily and securely; and have set up fully functional Linux Systems on Apple hardware which can run the Windows software I still need at native speed with no problem. I can also legitimately run Windows and MacOS Virtual Machines on that platform if and when the need arises. As far as Apple software goes I don't (and won't) use any branded software that doesn't have a native compatible version on Linux and/or Windows, so I have ensured that I am not locked in to any self-enforced loyalty to Apple/Apple software.

I think the cuckoo shoe is on your foot. Apple's main business is the consumer market not conservative business users. Yes the M1 gen 1 chip will have teething problems but they are minor and will be resolved in the gen 2 versions next summer. Intel has already rolled over and lost the chip battle. Apple split because of years long delays and serious bugs holding up apple's products. The gen 1 M1 chip in consumer hands now is smoking Intel chips horribly. The iphone and ipad are so dominant and successful in their markets because of the chips developed over years of refinement and now leading to the first mac chip.

 

Apple realizes that Windows on macs has become irrelevant to most of it's customers. Microsoft can move some of it's office apps over and perhaps Parallels can come up with an alternative but few care. Those who do need windows will buy the intel 16 in MBP.



#14 Rooty

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 09:01 AM

Good news for Bruce!

 

Family tree maker has announced a free upgrade to FTM 2019 and is promoting a revised print manual and an improved cloud backup service.

 

This means the 2021 version must be at least 6 months away. FTM seems to have roughly a 2 year cycle for new versions with actual release late in the year.



#15 Vyger

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 11:37 AM

Good news for Bruce!

 

Family tree maker has announced a free upgrade to FTM 2019 and is promoting a revised print manual and an improved cloud backup service.

 

This means the 2021 version must be at least 6 months away. FTM seems to have roughly a 2 year cycle for new versions with actual release late in the year.

 

Family Historian 7 is also due out "late 2020" so lets's say within the next 6 months, there will be plenty of software choice and competition out there, should be something to suit everyones needs and style.


Keeping ones customers and their important views at a distance is never a good approach

 

User of Family Historian 7.0, Rootsmagic 7.6.3

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#16 Less

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 12:11 PM

Not sure the best place to ask this, so I'll just ask here...

 

I thought I saw a post from Bruce, right before Thanksgiving, perhaps on Wednesday, saying RM8 wouldn't be out this year, but linking a longer (30min) video tour so we could all get a better idea about it. I can't find that post on the blog or in the FB group, and I can't find the video on YouTube. Did I imagine this? What happened? Does anyone know?


 Leslie
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desktop: Family Tree Edge -> TMG -> RM

web: Wordpress + TNG + ZenPhoto 


#17 TomH

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 02:43 PM

I thought I saw a post from Bruce, right before Thanksgiving, perhaps on Wednesday, saying RM8 wouldn't be out this year, but linking a longer (30min) video tour so we could all get a better idea about it. I can't find that post on the blog or in the FB group, and I can't find the video on YouTube. Did I imagine this? What happened? Does anyone know?

 

Maybe that was a year ago?


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#18 Less

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 05:23 PM

No, it wasn't a year ago, "not released in 2020" was pretty specific, along with the now familiar boilerplate about biggest change and update videos and blog posts being distractions, and, like I said, there was a longer video overview, and now I'm thinking I'm pretty sure it was on FB because there were already comments from people who watched the video and there wasn't anything at all about Ancestry sync in the video. 

 

Oh well, looks like that was pulled and re-done with something more upbeat in the current email newsletter and a 15 minute video about tasks.


 Leslie
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desktop: Family Tree Edge -> TMG -> RM

web: Wordpress + TNG + ZenPhoto 


#19 lighthouse

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 05:38 PM

This question is bouncing about again, my opinion below from a few days ago on the Wish List thread;

 

 

 

Vyger how do you compare Family Historian / Legacy / RM currently.

Also where are all the hundreds of Beta testers on RM ??



#20 Vyger

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 07:01 PM

Vyger how do you compare Family Historian / Legacy / RM currently.

Also where are all the hundreds of Beta testers on RM ??

 

On the first question and being in transition with both programs I'm not sure comment would have any great value. Personally as a large database user and comparing FH6 to RM7 I have found FH6 superior in terms of filtering, reporting and mapping and also that enviable Ancestry style pedigree view.

 

I don't know where the hundreds of beta testers are but we can only hope they are not just cruisers and doing a good job. As for features we are still not clear on exactly what RM8 will bring to the table so I await both FH7 and RM8 to decide the future of my research over the next several years.


Keeping ones customers and their important views at a distance is never a good approach

 

User of Family Historian 7.0, Rootsmagic 7.6.3

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root