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Elder vs Younger

Elder vs Younger

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 03:21 PM

Quick relationship chart question -

 

How do you distinguish between say a grandfather and a grandson when their names are the same?

 

It seems it would not be "Sr" and "Jr" because that is reserved for fathers and sons. It also seems it should not be "I-II-III" etc., unless the names were used in consecutive generations (example grandfather-son-grandson).

 

I have seen records where the older person is referred to as "the elder", and the younger person is referred to as "the younger", but I'm not sure if that is correct.

 

How should this be handled in RM?

 

Thanks

Rick


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#2 JimDavis79

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 07:45 AM

When royalty reuses the name of a monarch, the number of the use of the name is appended to the name, despite there being intervening Generations. If you need to distinguish between two people with the same name, this might help.

Best regards, Jim

"When you shake my family tree, nuts fall out."


#3 zhangrau

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:18 AM

IN ancient Rome, Pliny the Younger was the nephew of Pliny the Elder. Distinguishing between the two was important, because both were famous: The Elder as a historian, the Younger as a lawyer.



#4 Rick Landrum

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:44 AM

So.....Elder and Younger works (even though my relatives are not necessarily historically known :) )

It is a way for me  to distinguish in my tree between persons in skipped generations with the same name.

 

Thanks

Rick


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#5 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 10:36 AM

Sevier County, Tennessee was a rural and sparsely populated county. Nevertheless, there were so many men named John Underwood in the county at the same time that a tax record once identified one of them as "John Underwood the red head". I have recorded this information in a note in RM, but I have not made "the red head" become part of the man's name.  :)

 

On a more serious note, the problem you cite is a common one and can be a serious impediment to matching records with people and with identifying people properly in reports. I have even seen the Senior and Junior suffixes be used for men that I know were uncle and nephew or grandfather and grandson. I have even seen a case  in a family bible where the Senior and Junior suffixes used for sisters with the same name (Elizabeth Bryan Sr. and Elizabeth Bryan Jr.), where the younger sister was named at her birth in memory of the older sister who had died.

I like the Elder and Younger terminology for your particular use case, but I doubt that one particular rule is ever going to cover every case that might ever arise. I think that some cases are likely to be so uncommon or so unusual or so difficult to figure out that only notes can adequately describe the situation. For example, there were two men Anderson County, Tennessee at the same time who were about the same age and who were both named John W. Peters. I'm about 99.9% sure that the two men were first cousins, and there were no Sr. and Jr. issues associated with them. But it can really be quite impossible in some cases ever to match a particular record with a specific one of the two men with any confidence.

 

Jerry



#6 Rick Landrum

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 02:39 PM

Sevier County, Tennessee was a rural and sparsely populated county. Nevertheless, there were so many men named John Underwood in the county at the same time that a tax record once identified one of them as "John Underwood the red head". I have recorded this information in a note in RM, but I have not made "the red head" become part of the man's name.  :)

 

On a more serious note, the problem you cite is a common one and can be a serious impediment to matching records with people and with identifying people properly in reports. I have even seen the Senior and Junior suffixes be used for men that I know were uncle and nephew or grandfather and grandson. I have even seen a case  in a family bible where the Senior and Junior suffixes used for sisters with the same name (Elizabeth Bryan Sr. and Elizabeth Bryan Jr.), where the younger sister was named at her birth in memory of the older sister who had died.

I like the Elder and Younger terminology for your particular use case, but I doubt that one particular rule is ever going to cover every case that might ever arise. I think that some cases are likely to be so uncommon or so unusual or so difficult to figure out that only notes can adequately describe the situation. For example, there were two men Anderson County, Tennessee at the same time who were about the same age and who were both named John W. Peters. I'm about 99.9% sure that the two men were first cousins, and there were no Sr. and Jr. issues associated with them. But it can really be quite impossible in some cases ever to match a particular record with a specific one of the two men with any confidence.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

I have been struggling with this issue for some time. My father's branch of our tree, for example, began in Scotland and came to Virginia in the early 1700's. Now it is "loaded" with John's, Jame's, Samuel's, Thomas', etc. and it is nearly impossible to tell them apart without reviewing their details. To make matters worse, brothers would often name their children after their brothers. Several generations down and you can see my problem. In the past I have put their birth and death year in brackets in the suffix field in RM, i.e. (1815-1875). This works well when you visually scan the tree, but it seems to add a lot of additional detail to the person's name. However, it may be the best way to go, and It does seem to work in every case that I've encountered. I was just wondering how others were handling.

Thanks

Rick


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