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TreeShare failure to transfer media attached to source citation

source citation media

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 04:20 PM

I have a question regarding the use of TreeShare to upload source media to Ancestry.

 

I have found that if media is attached to a source, and the source is uploaded to Ancestry via TreeShare, then the media can not be found in the Ancestry tree after the transfer. I have searched the available media in the ancestry record to attach it to the source, but it is not available. However, if I also attach the media to the RM event/fact, and then transfer to Ancestry, the media does transfer OK, attached to the event/fact.

 

I usually attach media to source citations if I need to copy the citation and paste it to another persons record. This saves time and it works fine in RM. (example - image of a census record attached to the census fact for the head of the family and then copied to the other members of the census family.)

 

Am I understanding the functionality of TreeShare correctly by expecting the source citation media to transfer in this way?

 

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 06:49 PM

Question: are you tagging the media to a Master Source or to a Source Detail in RM? This is more or less RM's terminology for a "source" vs. a "citation", except that RM is actually not very consistent in its terminology.

 

I don't know for certain whether the distinction matters or not, but it might. I haven't looked in great detail for awhile how "sourcing media" gets transferred from RM to ancestry via TreeShare.

 

Jerry



#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:42 AM

Question: are you tagging the media to a Master Source or to a Source Detail in RM? This is more or less RM's terminology for a "source" vs. a "citation", except that RM is actually not very consistent in its terminology.

 

I don't know for certain whether the distinction matters or not, but it might. I haven't looked in great detail for awhile how "sourcing media" gets transferred from RM to ancestry via TreeShare.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

I was assuming that the media was being attached to the source citation. However, I ran a test on a tree member who had not yet been processed through TreeShare. I made certain that the media was attached to the citation for the person, and not to the master source. I then ran TreeShare. The media did transfer but, I had to manually search for it in the available list of media, and attach it to the fact citation, before it showed up in the peron's fact view in Ancestry. I need to do some more detailed tests to see if this is always the case. I guess I expected it to be automatically attached.

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:33 AM

Let's assume you are attaching media from the Edit Person screen and then from a "source" under the Edit Person screen. Click on the Media button on the Edit Source screen to get to the place where you can add media files. There is a button where you can select Source Only, Detail Only, or Source and Detail. This button has two effects. First, the button controls the display of media that are already there and displays media attached to the Source only, that's attached to the Detail only, or that's attached to both - depending which way you set the button. Second, the button controls how new media you add is attached. Source Only attaches only to the Master Source. Detail only attaches only to the Source Detail. Source and Detail attaches only to the Source Detail. As far as I'm concerned, that is a bug that needs to be fixed in RM8. I think the Source and Detail button should add to both, but it doesn't.

 

The default for the button is Source and Detail, so you are probably only attaching to the Source Detail. After attaching a media file to a "source" in RM, you can look over in the right hand panel to see if it was attached to a Master Source, to a Source Detail, or to both. The way you can tell is to look at the icons. For a Master Source, you will see a "source icon" with no words and the absence of words is a terrible design. For a Source Detail, you will see what looks to me like the exact same icon except that it also has the word CITE associated with the icon. The addition of the word CITE is very helpful. For both, you will see two icons, one of each kind.

 

In any case, you can see what's going on with the RM side of the house. Perhaps it's not so easy to interpret what you are seeing with those icons, but you can figure it out. From there, I'll have to leave it to you to figure out where the media goes in ancestry when you TreeShare it to ancestry. Surely it depends on whether you have attached the media to the Master Source in RM, to the Source Details in RM, or to both in RM.

 

Jerry

 



#5 Rick Landrum

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:20 PM

Jerry,

Thanks for the tips on the proper assignment of source media to either the master source or the source citation. Most of the time, I have saved media to a citation rather than to the master source. I have found that memorizing a source from one person, and pasting to another person, keeps the same media assignment. Example - saving media to a citation for person 1 will also be assigned to a citation for person 2, after pasting. This media will also transfer to Ancestry through TreeShare, but it does not always attach to the fact in Ancestry (??). As a result, I have to manually search among the available media and add it to the citation for the given fact. I have also found that if a hint exists in Ancestry for the citation and media in RM, it is better to accept it in Ancestry and not to try and push it from RM through TreeShare to Ancestry. This way the proper associations are created by Ancestry, not requiring any manual intervention. I have had so much trouble with TreeShare that I am generally trying to avoid using it. Instead, I review hints and copy paste what I need to create the fact in RM.

Thanks again,

Rick


RickL


#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:33 PM

For a variety of reasons, when TreeShare first came out I chose to use it only in the RM to TreeShare direction, and only for the purpose of getting hints. Going the other direction causes too many problems in my RM database. Therefore, I do only manual data entry into RM and I don't automate any of my input. I respect that other users need to use TreeShare in the other direction, but going from RM to ancestry is what works for me.

 

I became an extreme source splitter a few years ago, meaning that I no longer used Source Details at all. I didn't like this strategy, but I felt forced into it because of how RM manages citations. Memorize and paste is fine, but having memorized and pasted a single citation a bunch of places, any correction requires that I find all those pasted citations and make that correction separately for each pasted citation. That includes any corrections to any media files. So along with all my other sourcing data being associated only with RM's Master Sources, I chose to tag media files only to RM's Master Sources. I haven't investigated in detail what happens to those media files on the ancestry side of a TreeShare transfer. Since I'm only using TreeShare to get hints, it doesn't really matter. Well, except that I have visions of making my ancestry tree public in which case it probably would matter. But I can't do that without doing a lot of privatization work, making a new RM database that can all be public on ancestry. That's because TreeShare doesn't support groups. It uploads your entire RM database. Well, TreeShare does support groups in a sense, but only to filter what you see on the TreeShare screen, not to filter what you upload in the first place.

 

In the meantime, I have started using GedSite to make Web sites. With GedSite, I like the presentation of media files better when they are associated with RM's Source Details than when they are associated with RM's Master Sources. So I have started tagging media files both to RM's Master Sources and RM's Source Details. That sort of flies in the face of my extreme source splitting strategy, except that I can still tag media files to Master Sources and use SQLite to echo those tags to related Source Details.

 

Jerry

 

 

 



#7 Rick Landrum

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:09 AM

Jerry,

These are very interesting perspectives. I was using the memorize/paste of citations in RM because of efficiency. I had not considered what it would mean if a correction were needed. I plan to consider the concept of becoming an "extream source splitter" for sources and media. It seems this might solve some of the issues I have been experiencing. It seems like a pretty big change so I'll have give it some thought. 

 

I also have stopped using TreeShare to update my RM tree. The main reasons for me are that Tree Share does not  transfer source details to RM, and media is named with a non-descriptive Ancestry media ID. I do still try to use it going the other way to update my Ancestry tree from RM. However, I'm having so many problems with this, I'm considering stopping altogether, except to use it to help work hints.

 

I too had thought about how to load data to Ancestry by group through TreeShare. The only way I could come up with was to create a separate tree in RM for the group, then connect that to a new tree in Ancestry. However, then how could you merge those trees into your main tree?? Sounds like too big of a mess to even bother.

 

Thank you for your tips

Rick


RickL


#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 01:41 PM

I too had thought about how to load data to Ancestry by group through TreeShare. The only way I could come up with was to create a separate tree in RM for the group, then connect that to a new tree in Ancestry. However, then how could you merge those trees into your main tree?? Sounds like too big of a mess to even bother.

 

And you would have to use your "small" tree on RM to get ancestry hints which for your purposes are really intended for your main tree on RM. It's hard to see how to work effectively in that environment.

 

Jerry



#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 01:47 PM

I plan to consider the concept of becoming an "extreame source splitter" for sources and media. It seems this might solve some of the issues I have been experiencing. It seems like a pretty big change so I'll have give it some thought.

 

I think there is at least a possibility (no certainty, and I'm not announcing anything!) that RM8 will have a feature which is called Shared Citations in FTM. This feature allows you to have a single citation (truly a citation and not a source) which is linked to multiple people and/or facts. If RM8 does turn out to have this feature, I will have to decide whether to use it or to continue along my extreme splitting path.

If I were in your shoes, I would wait until RM8 before making the rather serious decision to become an extreme source splitter. Which is to say, if RM8 supports Shared Citations by whatever name it might be called in RM8, then you should be able to get most or all of the advantages of extreme source splitting without actually becoming an extreme source splitter - depending how RM8 might choose to implement Shared Citations, of course.

 

Jerry



#10 Rick Landrum

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 02:18 PM

Jerry,

That makes sense to me. I jumped in with both feet when TreeShare came out, wish now I had gone a little slower.

Thanks again

Rick


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#11 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:40 AM

 

I think there is at least a possibility (no certainty, and I'm not announcing anything!) that RM8 will have a feature which is called Shared Citations in FTM. This feature allows you to have a single citation (truly a citation and not a source) which is linked to multiple people and/or facts. If RM8 does turn out to have this feature, I will have to decide whether to use it or to continue along my extreme splitting path.

If I were in your shoes, I would wait until RM8 before making the rather serious decision to become an extreme source splitter. Which is to say, if RM8 supports Shared Citations by whatever name it might be called in RM8, then you should be able to get most or all of the advantages of extreme source splitting without actually becoming an extreme source splitter - depending how RM8 might choose to implement Shared Citations, of course.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

Just a general question -

Wonder if we will be able to continue to run version 7 after version 8 comes out? I would assume that you could run both versions while you check out the new version without having to upgrade your 7 to 8.  :unsure:

Rick


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#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 11:07 AM

Jerry,

Just a general question -

Wonder if we will be able to continue to run version 7 after version 8 comes out? I would assume that you could run both versions while you check out the new version without having to upgrade your 7 to 8.  :unsure:

Rick

 

There are certain aspects of your question that can't be answered until such details are announced by RM. But in general, you can have the RM7 and the RM8 software installed on your computer at the same time. They will be in different folders. And yes you will be able to continue to run RM7 after you install RM8.

 

The RM7 software is installed in C:\Program Files (x86)\RootsMagic 7\ because it's a 32  bit application. RM8 will be installed in C:\Program Files\RootsMagic 8 because it will be a 64  bit application. Well, I assume the lowest level folder name will be RootsMagic 8, but it has to be a folder under Program Files rather than under Program Files (x86) because it's 64 bit. So there is no conflict with the software installation.

 

RM8 will have to be able to read an RM7 database and convert it to RM8. It seems extremely doubtful to me that RM7 will be able to read an RM8 database. I don't know for sure, but I'm doubtful.

 

Given that, I will plan to keep my RM7 software and my RM7 database for a while. I will put my RM8 database in a different folder from my RM7 folder. I will copy my RM7 database to my RM8 folder as a way to provide initial input to RM8. I will have RM8 work only in the RM8 folder. My RM7 software, database, and folder will remain my production system until I have tested RM8 sufficiently. And I will never touch my RM7 folder with RM8.

 

If you do enter what I will call "production data" into RM8 and then decide to go back to RM7, it's unlikely that there will be a good way to get the data back into RM7. So I would recommend going production in RM8 only after extensive and successful testing.

 

Jerry



#13 Trebor22

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 11:28 AM

 

The RM7 software is installed in C:\Program Files (x86)\RootsMagic 7\ because it's a 32  bit application. RM8 will be installed in C:\Program Files\RootsMagic 8 because it will be a 64  bit application. Well, I assume the lowest level folder name will be RootsMagic 8, but it has to be a folder under Program Files rather than under Program Files (x86) because it's 64 bit. So there is no conflict with the software installation.

 

Are we sure yet that RM8 for Windows will be 64bit only?     Windows 10 32 bit  still seems to be supported, I just sort of assumed there would be versions for both depending on your OS?



#14 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 12:35 PM

Jerry,

 

Your comment -

 

Given that, I will plan to keep my RM7 software and my RM7 database for a while. I will put my RM8 database in a different folder from my RM7 folder. I will copy my RM7 database to my RM8 folder as a way to provide initial input to RM8. I will have RM8 work only in the RM8 folder. My RM7 software, database, and folder will remain my production system until I have tested RM8 sufficiently. And I will never touch my RM7 folder with RM8.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. If I don't like RM8 (probably unlikely), and or it isn't working up to expectations, my current "production" data base will be separate and safe from whatever "mahem" ensues when RM8 starts up.

 

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#15 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:01 PM

We don't actually know for sure that the WIndows version of RM8 will be 64 bit. We do know that the Mac version will be 64 bit. Given that it's a common code base, it's hard to see it being 64 bit for Mac and 32 bit for Windows.

 

Jerry



#16 Trebor22

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 06:28 AM

I should have been clearer in that I  expect 32 & 64 bit versions of RM8 for Windows, still a lot of older  PC's out there who's users might want to buy (or have perhaps already pre bought?) a copy of RM8,  but I take your point Jerry and in truth I will most likely only ever use a 64 bit copy, but there may still be one or two users out there who will be disappointed.