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Noting parents who raised as well as biological parents


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#1 bjenn

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 01:49 PM

I have searched the forums for an answer to my question and I didn't find anything that dealt with my specific issue so I apologize if this seems simple. I am just starting Rootsmagic 7 after family research for years and I want to enter everything right starting out. 

 

My great grandmother's mother died when my grandmother was 2, her father moved on and she was raised by her mother's cousin and her husband. When entering the data, I want to show the biological parents as well as the parents who raised her. I will probably not expand on the cousin's family but again, I want to show them as step parents or raising her. They are in the same home for numerous census', not that it really means anything, just a fact. I appreciate any suggestions anyone might have as I am a complete greenhorn at this part of the family tree stuff.



#2 Bob C

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 02:01 PM

People can have multiple sets of parents, so just go ahead and add the new parents. Then open the person's record for editing and click on the new parents names in the heading. That will open a screen where you can set the relationship, ie step, foster  etc. Just be aware that all reports will pick up the last set of parent selected for viewing and this may not be the ones you want for  that report.



#3 Kamolga

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 02:03 PM

Hi,

 

I would click on the person, then under list menu, there is a person icon with a green '+', click on it and select parents. RM says there are already parents and ask if you still want to add them, click yes and add your new couple.

 

Then when you 2x click on the person, you will see spouse (if any) followed by  both parents couples. When you click the first couple, you can put them as birth (default) and on the new one, you can select adopted, step, foster, related, guardian, sealed or unknown relationsip


Rootsmagic 7.5.9.0 with a lot of SQL queries (SQLiteSpy) and a bit of Family Historian 6.2 (tree view and map)


#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 04:13 PM

Adding multiple sets of parents for persons who were raised by people who were not their birth parents is a good thing to do, but it does not solve all reporting problems. As already noted, ancestral type reports will follow the set of parents who you most recently viewed in the "parent's position" for the person. That is not always an easy thing to set up correctly. And descendant reports will follow the child lines without providing any indication of whether the child was a biological child or a "raised by" child. So you have to provide the indication yourself somewhere in RM's notes.

 

It's a very common problem. I run into it all the time, and not just in the distant past. Both of my grandfathers became widowers as very young men with very young children, so I have several "raised by" stories that I need to tell in my genealogy reports.

 

Jerry



#5 bjenn

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 06:09 AM

Thanks to you all for the information and insight, it is greatly appreciated! I want to do my best to get this stuff right out of the gate. Thanks again!



#6 Kamolga

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 06:20 AM

My grand mother died at 26, on the 6th anniversary of my mother.

My mother's grand mother came to live with my grand father to help raising 4 kids for 7 years (until he married again).

 

I have shared the family residency with the grand-grand-mother and described the story there (modified sentence). Reports I sometimes use (quick and dirty) print fine but export to other softwares/online do not (2x parenting do not export well either I believe). 

 

I had some issues with reports on the deaths of my half cousin, 3 of her children and her mother passed away in a house fire. Her last child, only survivor, was adopted by her half sister. So here I have a new set of parents. I spent hours on that, testing everything and have came up with a dirty solution: copy-paste in text editor and make my own reports :unsure: . MS Word is definitely nicer and easier to read, I also insert photo's and newspapers scans from the fire. 

 

For me so far, parents are biological or by adoption, otherwise they are only family/partners living in the same house.


Rootsmagic 7.5.9.0 with a lot of SQL queries (SQLiteSpy) and a bit of Family Historian 6.2 (tree view and map)


#7 Trebor22

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 08:02 AM

Interesting subject, I have several instances of individuals raised by relations, grandparents for example, I have addressed this with 'notes' rather than adding extra set of parents, most were added before I used RM and I am aware my current approach needs improvement!

Does  adding extra parents 'pass well' through gedcom? Are there problems with adding grandparents (or aunt / uncle) as extra parent?



#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 11:32 AM

Does  adding extra parents 'pass well' through gedcom? Are there problems with adding grandparents (or aunt / uncle) as extra parent?

 

The following should certainly be taken as my opinion, not necessarily as expert advice.

 

My sense is that extra parents do pass well through GEDCOM but that there might be problems after the hurdle of passing of GEDCOM is successfully passed. For example, think of it first in terms of inside your own RM database itself without regard to the outside world. Adding grandparents or aunt/uncle as extra parents (which may be the only way really to reflect what is going on) is likely to wreak havoc with things like the relationship calculator. In the case of descendant narrative reports, aunt/uncle as "raised by" parents will result in the "raised by" child appearing twice in the report, but at least it's in the same generation. "Raised by" grandparents will also result in the "raised by" child appearing twice in the report, and the multiple occurrences will not even be in the same generation.

 

So even if your data passes successfully through GEDCOM (or through an API such as to FamilySearch) these structural "errors" in your tree which do reflect as certain kind of reality will then be passed on to somewhere else. It's hard to know what will happen. In the case of FamilySearch, somebody else is very likely to "correct" your data for you.

 

There are other variations on this theme.

  • A "raised by" relationship is often informal. But I know of a case where grandparents literally went to court and adopted their grandchildren because the parents were unfit (druggies and in jail) and the adoption was the only way to cover the grandchildren with a family plan provided by group medical insurance.
  • I know of a case of a man who married a divorced woman with an infant from the previous marriage and they raised the child together without an official adoption by the man. The birth father had no interaction with the child. Without linking the child to the "raised by" father who married the biological mother, the child is totally missing from reports that are distributed at a family reunion.
  • I know of a case where there was an old fashioned adoption agency adoption of an infant and the birth parents were not known. So sometimes it is only the adoptive parents who are known and not the birth parents. Many decades later and after both adoptive parents had passed away, the child as a now mature adult contacted the adoption agency who contacted the still living birth mother who consented to meet her birth child. The two now have a wonderful relationship. The child still has the name given by the adoptive parents and not the name originally given by the birth mother.

So some of these situations are actually very complicated, and I don't think that genealogy writ large deals with these kinds of situations very well.

 

Jerry



#9 Trebor22

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 12:35 PM

Hi Jerry

Thank you for you detailed thoughts! I kind of thought there would have to be pitfalls (as there is with my current approach) so there is a lot to consider but I would like to improve on my current approach, so this is a good prompt to re look at things.

 

I also have situations relating to informal and formal adoption, name changes, child keeping birth name or even switching between to two, seemingly at random!

Our ancestors had so little consideration for those who now  record their lives :-)



#10 KFN

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 06:04 PM

Because you asked about GEDCOM....

In the childrens INDI record a tag exists that indicates the family record that the individual participated within, in is called the FAMC tag.

A subtag is added to indicated the type of relationship this child has to that family, it is called a PEDI tag, with options of, adopted | birth | foster | sealing. The relationship your are describing would best be described as foster.

A properly defined GEDCOM would thusly be described as:
1 FAMC @F9@
2 PEDI foster

If RM produces a GEDCOM like this then you can share the data easily with other programs that can read this construct.

Additionally you can add a NOTE tag to explain the relationship.
1 FAMC @F9@
2 PEDI foster
2 NOTE Raised by grandparents.


AND THERE IS THE RUB..... Not all programs are equipped to write or read proper GEDCOM.

#11 Trebor22

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:00 AM

Thank you for the Gedcom info KFN, nice to know its supported, I guess the next step is a few trials on a test database as time permits, it would be nice to improve my records in this area!



#12 Don Newcomb

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 07:27 AM

My 2nd great-grandfather was raised by and aunt and uncle after both his parents died when he was quite young. I have the aunt and uncle connected to him as foster parents. When you do this you have to be careful because RM remembers the last set of parents you selected. If I select the aunt and uncle and then make a pedigree chart, it can be quite interesting.



#13 Nettie

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 10:19 AM

Personally, I am one of those parents, who raised a grandchild also.  When I did it in RM, used  'Parents' drop down to add another set of parents.  He has biological parents and guardians as we had the legal guardianship papers.  He shows up in my children list under birth as guardian and in his parents as birth. Sentence for guardianship is '[Person][Desc][Date][PlaceDetails][Place]' and Desc says "was placed under legal guardianship of his grandparents, 'name of guardians'"  Hope this helps.  Use the Desc  to state whether legal or not.  As a lot of these situations have many other information in them. .


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