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Lock the 'Wish List' to further entries until after the release of RM8


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#1 mjashby

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 07:43 AM

I love a little bit of controversy so, as the subject indicates:

 

- I see little point in users endlessly adding to the current 'Wish List' items when no-one other than designers/testers, who are obviously sworn to secrecy under threat of plague, pestilence and disembowelment, know what new/improved features have already been incorporated in the re-design/re-write of RM8.

 

- All the wishes in the world will not change the feature set/functionalities already available in RM7, unless RM8 is delayed indefinitely and programming resources are redirected.

 

- The design/feature set for the initial release of RM8 is almost certainly already set in tablets of stone.  If that is not accurate then, in my opinion, users are unlikely to see RM8 arrive this side of Christmas/New Year - and I won't say which year!.

 

- I would further suggest that a completely 'new' User Wish List Topic Area should be created once RM8 is released. I would further suggest that for any Wish List to be effective, it needs be actively; and more openly, managed by the RM Development Team to avoid endless duplication.  It is absolutely  pointless for users to constantly make requests/suggestions only for the Development Team to provide zero response/feedback as a follow-up to the confirmation of inclusion on an invisible and secret request list.

 

- Users really need to see what changes are made over time in response to suggestions/requests; and also deserve to know why some often repeated requests for improvement have not been met.  I don't buy in to any argument that a maintained List should be in any way confidential, when it is built around open user requests/suggestions/feedback.  Any competent software competitor could easily monitor the public reporting channels and analyse what users are reporting as not meeting their needs; or simply obtain a copy of the software and probe its strengths and weaknesses.

 

I will now stand back and wait to be shot down in flames.

 

Mervyn


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#2 MVS

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 07:57 AM

I agree that this "perpetual" wish list is unhelpful with no acknowledgement of items that may have been fully or partly addressed and could be closed.  All the points your make are fir and reasonable,  One assumes that there is a "real" wish list held internally at RM, but I doubt whether they would be confident enough to publish it.

 

On a slightly different tack, I know that with Microsoft they offer forums where suggested improvements to product functionaility can be voted on by Users with a view that "top x" entries will be addressed.  Such a system in RM might encourage a more friendly engagement between the often frustrated contributors to this forum and those that actually decide what improvements are to be undertaken to the product.

 

The saddest part of my time as an RM user and a contributor to these forums is to see the "wasted years" involved in two complete rewrites of the product (for a new database and for Mac users as I understand it).  One rewrite is understandable, two is unforgivable.  If the manpower and effort  of just one of these rewrites had been focussed on product improvement there would be very many more happy customers and a much better and more advanced product.

 

MVS.



#3 Vyger

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:26 AM

I love a little bit of controversy so, as the subject indicates:

 


- I would further suggest that a completely 'new' User Wish List Topic Area should be created once RM8 is released. I would further suggest that for any Wish List to be effective, it needs be actively; and more openly, managed by the RM Development Team to avoid endless duplication.  It is absolutely  pointless for users to constantly make requests/suggestions only for the Development Team to provide zero response/feedback as a follow-up to the confirmation of inclusion on an invisible and secret request list.

 

I don't see anything controversial in your post so no shooting from here.

 

There have been many fundamental wished posted over very many years, there has also been many refinements to existing features and gaps in those features identified again over many years by dedicated and well experienced users. We now need to wait and see how Rootsmagic take that valid user feedback and inspiration and how serious they are about building a serious and prefessional genealogy database product.

 

A new version with new features will naturally bring a whole new set of wishes in relation to those features, but is that not the job of the developers to iron out during beta testing? Sadly many features have not been finished in the past to a professional standard resulting in many users dropping the use of such inovations, I could cite a list but they are only too well known by regulars on this forum.

 

I agree that the Wish List should be effectively closed and a new list started, I also agree that the wish list should be more transparent at least to stop repeat entries. Another program I am considering for the future has such a wish list where, once a wish is accepted it is there for all to see. There is the facility for users to vot the wish up or down therefore providing an greater user consensus. Having said that there are still many items on that list many years old and never implimented for whatever reason.

 

Depending on the feature list and usability of Rootsmagic this may well be my last year with the product after ~24 years with the company as my research has serious needs and I am not getting any younger. Those needs gould easily be wrapped up in speed of use, live view of associations (both features which look to have had focus if you listen to the rumour mill) but more data display options on People View, Sorting and filtering in respect of many data sets and for me above all else a professional mapping UI, easier geocoding and the ability to report research clues by geography regardless of how the Place is noted.

 

I find geography such an important undicator as record detail thins back in time and I have found a program which fulfils all the above needs. At present I am using both programs side by side as I await Rootsmagics offering and I see no point in publishing any how to videos with RM7 in it's sunset years.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.2, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#4 Kamolga

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:23 PM

I see the wish list as a brainstorming...

A wish might be perfectly valid, everyone want its it (users and RM) but would require so much work and maintenance that it will never be implemented. Some others might be on dev team wish list but the backlog keeps on pushing it to a later date. It is therefore quite difficult to give feedback from their side. It is all about efforts (or paid hours) for the functional benefits of the development...then comes priorities and real life constraints.  
My impression when I enter data wit RM7 is that we are already in a version 7, it is very well thought and the software has a lot of nice to have. It is impossible to get to that level without updating a software with user experience. I now just miss a quick 'add fact' to a person with a right click on its name for example and would love to be able to put Icons in top of the screen with my SQL queries (or a drop down menu list with my queries saved in a specific folder). 
Still about details,  I do not like the the birth place and dead place columns in family view to adapt to fit the length of my data: standardize is always like
Aart (2440), Geel (13008), Arrondissement Turnhout (13), Antwerp Province (VAN), Flanders (VLG), Belgium (BE)
and place name is 
Aart, Geel, Arrondissement Turnhout, Antwerp Province, Flanders, Belgium.
Now comes the three big chapters I think need improvement over the years: As Vyger, I miss the maps. I can't see who is born in Geel or died in Arroundissement Turnhout from my structure above. For research Purpose, I need to get to Antwerp Province level frequently (where the archives are stored). Hopefully I will be able to see which facts happened in a circle on a map in the future (I wonder who is born in a circus of 50km of where I live). 

The second missing point is the full family tree.

For those two aspects (maps and tree) I use FamilyHistorian in addition to RM, not ideal.

Finally, I think some improvement could be made in tree shares: the updates in Ancestry or FamilySearch are quite time consuming. I wish there was a place online where my RM database would synchronise without having me to validate everyone/change (only push) but the invited people (Facebook account) adding data (that I could reject or import). I would also like to share my tree with RM users, where I would have sources to decide if matching and import people with those sources


Rootsmagic 7.5.9.0 with a lot of SQL queries (SQLiteSpy) and a bit of Family Historian 6.2 (tree view and map)


#5 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 07:57 PM

 

We now need to wait and see how Rootsmagic take that valid user feedback and inspiration .....

 

 

Oh, absolutely.   It will be so much better this time.   :wacko:



#6 Trebor22

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 04:40 AM

In my view the current wish list is past its sell by date and I agree it would be a good idea to lock it.

A new and improved one for RM8 - voting for features is an appealing idea :-)



#7 Renee Zamora

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:32 AM

In my view the current wish list is past its sell by date and I agree it would be a good idea to lock it.

A new and improved one for RM8 

 

I agree, and will recommend to the RootsMagician that a new RM8 wish list be opened after its release, and this forum locked. 


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#8 robertjacobs0

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:56 AM

If I'm not mistaken, one of our competitors publishes a lits showing how many of their users have asked for each particular change. One of that program's deficiencies IMO is the want of bold, italic & underlining in the printed reports. Last time I looked that enhancement was very high on the list of desirable changes. Were I using that program I would be confident that the programmers would be considering the change seriously.

 

I'd like to see the RM8 wish list similarly set up. Users would be given a greater sense of participation and I cannot see that the company would be risking anything by the disclosure of what users are hoping for.



#9 JCK74656

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:07 PM

If I'm not mistaken, one of our competitors publishes a lits showing how many of their users have asked for each particular change. One of that program's deficiencies IMO is the want of bold, italic & underlining in the printed reports. Last time I looked that enhancement was very high on the list of desirable changes. Were I using that program I would be confident that the programmers would be considering the change seriously.

 

I'd like to see the RM8 wish list similarly set up. Users would be given a greater sense of participation and I cannot see that the company would be risking anything by the disclosure of what users are hoping for.

 

I believe you are refering to Famiy Historian, unless there is another, and a competitor software invariably voted above Rootsmagic on a number of fronts yet there are still likable things about Rootsmagic. Many of those wishes hang around for quite a while but at lease you can see they have been put forward and voted on by users so more structured than this list. I have seen many quirky wishes which may suit a particular users non standard way of working and on that type of voting based wish list they woud not garner support so would quickly fall by the wayside. I like many things about that software and the current version looks to be the same age as Rootsmagic V7 so simply matching it might result in a shock in the near future if they release a new version. I also like their support for user developed scripts through their plugin store, if it were not for SQL I think I would have dropped Rootsmagic before now but I am very conscious those who can use SQL are probably a small minority so either Rootsmagic overcomes the various program limitations within the build or they make running of plugins more simple for all users.



#10 robertjacobs0

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:57 PM

>>>I believe you are refering to Famiy Historian<<<

 

Yes, of course. If their next version comes out soon and they have fixed that particular deficiency I'm going to have to make a difficult decision. The absence of italics, in particular, was a deal-breaker for me.



#11 Less

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 05:00 PM

Uservoice is used as the enhancement request system for several of the apps that I use. As a customer, I find it wonderful to be able to search to see if the idea has already been suggested, what is the status (in process, rejected, under consideration, done,etc.) and see the other comments and discussion about the issue. It seems that the managers are able to merge similar suggestions into one trackable item, people can vote for what they find important. All in all, it's a great way for a user who has ideas, suggestions, or complaints to see if maybe they'll ever be taken care of.

 

I find this forum configuration, with the occasional "it's in the system" to be really frustrating


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#12 Vyger

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 11:17 AM

I find this forum configuration, with the occasional "it's in the system" to be really frustrating

 

I would say deliberately confusing, frustrating and opaque placing the onus on the customer to search out previous discussions and well received accepted requests, there can only be one reason?

 

In my previous employment I outlined and projects and improvement ideas to my manager early in the year, these were also tracked in a tracker available for all employees to see. Updates were sought by my manager during 1:1 meetings throughout the year and one success measurement end of year was the number and quality of the improvements I had logged, the quality in several terms and that they were implemented in a timely manner. Micky mouse ideas were dismissed at the outset and just logging improvement ideas and not seeing them through was probably viewed is a worse light than not logging them at all.

 

The wish list at Family Historian appears to work very much the same, firstly the company accept the request as a valid one and thereafter users have their say in voting the idea up or down from memory. Worthless quirky personal ideas will quickly become page 2 or beyond under such a system leaving the good and valid ideas bubbling to the top. The problem, I would imagine, Rootsmagic would have with such a system is the visibility and age of popular and valid user enhancement requests, these would effectively highlight deficiencies within the program and give those shopping for genealogy software a list of why not to choose Rootsmagic. I would also imagine there would be a desire to keep such public genealogy software ideas from easy extraction by their competitors, however Rootsmagic hold no IP over such public ideas. I would also say if Rootsmagic are not willing or determined to act on such, often inspired, improvement ideas then at least back away from holding back the genealogy community at large.

 

The world of genealogy software and researching techniques is an ever evolving market, I simply don’t see the problem in having the determination to give the customer what then want in terms of genuine researching and reporting needs. I have seen many users dump Rootsmagic after buying, why?, well my view from speaking to several individuals is that the FULL program fell short of their expectations. Family Historian offer a FULL 30 day evaluation with no feature restrictions so those who take the trial either like FH or don’t. Rootsmagic could easily do the same falling back to Essentials if not purchased within the 30 days, that’s what I would call vendor confidence in their product.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.2, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#13 JCK74656

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 05:24 AM

 

I would say deliberately confusing, frustrating and opaque placing the onus on the customer to search out previous discussions and well received accepted requests, there can only be one reason?

 

In my previous employment I outlined and projects and improvement ideas to my manager early in the year, these were also tracked in a tracker available for all employees to see. Updates were sought by my manager during 1:1 meetings throughout the year and one success measurement end of year was the number and quality of the improvements I had logged, the quality in several terms and that they were implemented in a timely manner. Micky mouse ideas were dismissed at the outset and just logging improvement ideas and not seeing them through was probably viewed is a worse light than not logging them at all.

 

The wish list at Family Historian appears to work very much the same, firstly the company accept the request as a valid one and thereafter users have their say in voting the idea up or down from memory. Worthless quirky personal ideas will quickly become page 2 or beyond under such a system leaving the good and valid ideas bubbling to the top. The problem, I would imagine, Rootsmagic would have with such a system is the visibility and age of popular and valid user enhancement requests, these would effectively highlight deficiencies within the program and give those shopping for genealogy software a list of why not to choose Rootsmagic. I would also imagine there would be a desire to keep such public genealogy software ideas from easy extraction by their competitors, however Rootsmagic hold no IP over such public ideas. I would also say if Rootsmagic are not willing or determined to act on such, often inspired, improvement ideas then at least back away from holding back the genealogy community at large.

 

The world of genealogy software and researching techniques is an ever evolving market, I simply don’t see the problem in having the determination to give the customer what then want in terms of genuine researching and reporting needs. I have seen many users dump Rootsmagic after buying, why?, well my view from speaking to several individuals is that the FULL program fell short of their expectations. Family Historian offer a FULL 30 day evaluation with no feature restrictions so those who take the trial either like FH or don’t. Rootsmagic could easily do the same falling back to Essentials if not purchased within the 30 days, that’s what I would call vendor confidence in their product.

 

I believe that's a pretty good impression of where things would appear to be but I still don't understand the resistance to giving the customer wht they desire and need, especially simple to program little things like sorting, filtering and reporting? :wacko: :unsure: :blink:



#14 Vyger

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:56 AM

I find this forum configuration, with the occasional "it's in the system" to be really frustrating

 

Having just responded to another user post, hearing their frustration and being reminded of what I term a GAP and Rootsmagic term an enhancement request over 7 1/2 years ago I wonder about all those good and valid enhancement requests falling by the wayside. I am making that statement based on the assumption all those good and valid requests will NOT be part of Rootsmagic 8 and as many know I may not be either.

 

However, if Rootsmagic decide to try and return to good and active user interaction, a new form of Wish List, especially with better transparence and the ability for users to vote, would still be a good direction for the future imo.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.2, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root