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Ancestors born out of wedlock


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#1 Billtoenies

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:41 PM

I have a rather unusual situation with one of my ancestors.  He was born out of wedlock in Germany.  His parents never married.  He took his mother's last name because that was the custom at the time.  His mother also had four other children all born out of wedlock by different partners.  These four other children also use the last name of the mother.  What is the best way for me to enter this into RootsMagic?



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:00 PM

Let's assume you know the names of the biological fathers. If so, enter each one as a "spouse" as if they were married but don't enter a Marriage fact. Add each child to the correct set of "spouses". You will have to override the surname of each child, but there is no problem doing so in RM.

 

If you don't know the names of the biological fathers, then the situation is a little different. But it sounds like you do know the names of the biological fathers.

 

Jerry



#3 Billtoenies

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:29 PM

Thanks, Jerry,  I do know the names of the biological fathers.  Was also wondering if RootsMagic can insert umlauts.



#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 05:16 PM

RM supports Unicode (the UTF-8 version of Unicode). That means you can insert umlauts.

 

To tell you the truth, I'm not fluent in doing so. I'm sure other users will give you several good (and easy) ways to do it. I do it so seldom that I can't remember those good (and easy) ways, so I usually just go outside of RM and do something silly like Google "German alphabet" or "Norwegian alphabet" or "Swedish alphabet" or something like that. I'll see the character I need and copy it and paste it where I need it. It's crude but effective. I'm sure you will get better responses on easy ways to do it.

 

Jerry



#5 zhangrau

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 06:03 PM

In most (but not all !!!) fields, you can get to the Windows Character Map app by hitting Ctrl-T

 

Strangely, hitting Ctrl-T to insert special charadters into a Source Details field, will actually place the special character into the Master Source Comments field (from which you can Ctrl-X Ctrl-V to move the special character to the Source Details field where it SHOULD have been inserted. Another old weirdness of RM that needs to get fixed....



#6 Don Newcomb

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:52 AM

RootsMagic can insert extended Latin characters, including umlauted German vowels, however, the last time I checked they are not found by typing the base character. So, if you have someone named Ångstrom you can't find them by typing "Angstrom". You either have to use a Swedish keyboard or know that Å is ALT+0197.



#7 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:35 PM

RootsMagic can insert extended Latin characters, including umlauted German vowels, however, the last time I checked they are not found by typing the base character. So, if you have someone named Ångstrom you can't find them by typing "Angstrom". You either have to use a Swedish keyboard or know that Å is ALT+0197.

 

Well, for some of these characters the concept of a "base character" is really not quite correct for the speakers of the language. For example, an Å in Norwegian is not really a "character". Which is to say, it is not simply an A with a little ring on top. Rather, it's a full blown letter in its own right. It is not a "base A plus a ring on top."

 

RM uses a special collating sequence that appears to try to sort the extended Latin characters as "base character plus umlaut" or "base character plus ring" or "base character plus something". So it would try to sort Å as if it were an A. I haven't tried to see what happens when you do RM's SmartTyping thing for these characters/letters in a list. I think in the long run, RM would better serve users by not trying to have a special collating sequence and instead just let all the extended Latin characters fend for themselves as real letters of the alphabet.

 

Jerry



#8 Renee Zamora

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 04:02 PM

Strangely, hitting Ctrl-T to insert special charadters into a Source Details field, will actually place the special character into the Master Source Comments field (from which you can Ctrl-X Ctrl-V to move the special character to the Source Details field where it SHOULD have been inserted. Another old weirdness of RM that needs to get fixed....

 

I'm not seeing that as an issue. 


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#9 Don Newcomb

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 04:27 PM

...... For example, an Å in Norwegian is not really a "character". Which is to say, it is not simply an A with a little ring on top. Rather, it's a full blown letter in its own right. It is not a "base A plus a ring on top."

 

 

 

Various languages claim various modified Latin characters as native characters. In Spanish the enye (Ñ) is a separate character, not an accented character. However, to a typesetter it's still a Latin N with a tilde. I have some Spanish surnames that begin with a C-cedilla (Ç). These sort above the regular Cs in the surname list. To find these you either have to scroll to them or enter ALT+0199. Similarly, I have a bunch of German names that have an umlauted vowel as the second character (e.g. Dürr). To find that one you have to type "D ALT+0246" Typing "Durr" won't find it.



#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 06:56 PM

 

In Spanish the enye (Ñ) is a separate character, not an accented character. However, to a typesetter it's still a Latin N with a tilde.

 

The problem with that approach is sorting and searching. If Ñ is just a Latin N with a tilde instead of being a letter in its own right, then sorting and searching are very unlikely to work as needed in a lot of real world applications - think a phone book or an alphabetical list of names in RM.

 

The problem can be worse than that. Sometimes in Norwegian, a name containing the letter å is rendered as aa. But the aa is "seen" as å and must be sorted as å even though it must be rendered as aa. For example, the surname Våge must be rendered as Våge for some individuals with that surname and must be rendered as Vaage for other individuals with that surname, but both renderings must be sorted and searched the same. And in particular, if you ask how many letters are in the surname Vaage, then the correct answer is 4 and not 5 despite the way the name must be rendered.

 

Jerry



#11 Kamolga

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 05:16 AM

Half my family being Arabic (which I can't speak nor read), I use google translate to get the names translated (and some cousins later on) and copy-paste them...all caracters are there.

For people like my dad, I overwrite my Belgian family name  with our copy-paste Arabic family name (since he is born with an Arabic name) and add our Belgian name as Alt name (immigrant). Because I can't read Arabic, I also use immigrant names as "Nickname" otherwise I just see 50 Arabic people without knowing who they are until I read their personal details.

 

To come back to your question, adding a spouse does not mean married (you can even add same sex person).

 

After you add a spouse, in the edit person windows, you can click on the second line 'spouse' (before parents and facts) and change "Husband label" and "Wife label" to 'Partner' in the dropdown menu.

 

I always do that with unmarried so I can exclude those "partners couples" from a query adding a marriage event and an alternative married name to the spouses of all couples (query from sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.com) of the database.

/*  
Adds a Marriage event to couples lacking one.
No date, place or description nor note.
Partners excluded.
Adds 'Mrs. Wife.GivenName Husband.Surname'
as alternate name (married) for the wife when suitable.
*/
;
INSERT INTO EventTable
SELECT NULL AS EventID
    ,300 AS EventType
    ,1 AS OwnerType
    ,FamilyID AS OwnerID
    ,0 AS FamilyID
    ,0 AS PlaceID
    ,0 AS SiteID
    ,'.' AS DATE
    ,9223372036854775807 AS SortDate
    ,0 AS IsPrimary
    ,0 AS IsPrivate
    ,0 AS Proof
    ,0 AS STATUS
    ,0 AS EditDate
    ,CAST('' AS BLOB) AS Sentence
    ,CAST('' AS BLOB) AS Details
    ,CAST('' AS BLOB) AS Note
FROM FamilyTable
WHERE FamilyID NOT IN (
        -- Couples with Marriage Fact
        SELECT F.FamilyID
        FROM FamilyTable F
        INNER JOIN EventTable E ON F.FamilyID = E.OwnerID
            AND E.OwnerType = 1
            AND E.EventType = 300
        -- Father is a partner (not married)
        OR F.FatherLabel=2);
 -- Name-Add_Married
REINDEX -- because following procedure does string matches on columns indexed using RMNOCASE
;
INSERT OR REPLACE INTO NameTable
SELECT
 NULL AS NameID,
 Wife.OwnerID AS OwnerID,
 Husband.Surname AS Surname,
 Wife.Given AS Given,
 'Mrs.' as Suffix,
 Null AS Prefix,
 '' AS Nickname,
 5 AS NameType,
 Event.DATE AS DATE, -- set to ',' for undated, Event.Date to match Marriage date.
 CASE Event.SortDate & 1023
  WHEN 1023 THEN Event.SortDate --
  ELSE Event.SortDate + 1
 END AS SortDate,
-- Event.SortDate +1 AS SortDate, -- set to 9223372036854775807 to sort with undated Alt Names, Event.SortDate to match Marriage
 0 AS IsPrimary,
 0 AS IsPrivate, -- set to 1 to make Private
 0 AS Proof,
 0.0 AS EditDate,
-- 'After [person:hisher] marriage, [person] was also known as [Desc].' AS Sentence,
 ' ' AS Sentence, -- a blank space to prevent the default sentence from being outputted
 '' AS Note,
 Wife.BirthYear AS BirthYear,
 Wife.DeathYear AS DeathYear
FROM NameTable Wife
INNER JOIN FamilyTable Family ON Wife.OwnerID=MotherID AND +Wife.IsPrimary
INNER JOIN NameTable Husband ON FatherID = Husband.OwnerID AND +Husband.IsPrimary
INNER JOIN EventTable Event ON Family.FamilyID = Event.OwnerID AND Event.EventType = 300
INNER JOIN PersonTable Person2 ON Wife.OwnerID = Person2.PersonID AND Person2.Sex=1
INNER JOIN PersonTable Person1 ON Husband.OwnerID = Person1.PersonID AND Person1.Sex=0
WHERE
 Wife.Surname NOT LIKE Husband.Surname AND
 Wife.OwnerID NOT IN
(
-- Wives with Alternate Surnames matching Husband's Surname
SELECT Wife.OwnerID --, Wife.IsPrimary, Wife.Given, Wife.Surname, Husband.Surname
FROM NameTable Wife
INNER JOIN FamilyTable ON Wife.OwnerID=MotherID AND NOT +Wife.IsPrimary
INNER JOIN NameTable Husband ON FatherID = Husband.OwnerID AND +Husband.IsPrimary
WHERE Wife.Surname LIKE Husband.Surname
   OR Wife.Surname LIKE Wife.Surname || '-' || Husband.Surname
)
;


Rootsmagic 7.5.9.0 with a lot of SQL queries (SQLiteSpy) and a bit of Family Historian 6.2 (tree view and map)