Jump to content


Photo

Ellis Island & New York Place Details

Ellis Island Place Details City Place

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 pilchuckgeneral

pilchuckgeneral

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:36 PM

Question: What is the correct way to list the location of events occurring in New York City in the early 1900s (like 1903)?  Would Brooklyn be listed as Brooklyn (city), New York (county) , New York (state), USA or would it be listed as Brooklyn, New York City, New York, New York, USA?  Also, I can't figure out how the place address and details would look like for Ellis Island.  Is it ok to list as New York City, New York, New York, USA....  I hope this makes sense, any help or guidance would be fantastic!



#2 robertjacobs0

robertjacobs0

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 265 posts

Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:38 PM

I have dozens,if not hundreds, of Ellis Island immigrants in my data. I list the place as New York City or New York, New York depending on how I want the narrative reports to read. As with Brooklyn, which once had a separate corporate existence, but is now a "borough," or Kings County, there's little chance that any ambiguity will muddy the fact of the actual location of an event.

 

When the Dodgers left in 1957, Brooklyn is the place where baseball in America died. I record it as "Brooklyn, New York."



#3 Vyger

Vyger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3404 posts

Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:39 PM

Question: What is the correct way to list the location of events occurring in New York City in the early 1900s (like 1903)?  Would Brooklyn be listed as Brooklyn (city), New York (county) , New York (state), USA or would it be listed as Brooklyn, New York City, New York, New York, USA?  Also, I can't figure out how the place address and details would look like for Ellis Island.  Is it ok to list as New York City, New York, New York, USA....  I hope this makes sense, any help or guidance would be fantastic!

 

Try CountyCheckExplorer under Tools menu

 

For me Ellis Island would be a Place Detail.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#4 pilchuckgeneral

pilchuckgeneral

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 30 April 2019 - 11:20 AM

Thank you for your insight.  So it sounds like the best thing to use for Ellis Island would be the following:  New York City, New York, New York, USA...and then Ellis Island in the details.  Is that how you have typically entered that information?



#5 kbens0n

kbens0n

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3448 posts

Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:18 PM

Thank you for your insight.  So it sounds like the best thing to use for Ellis Island would be the following:  New York City, New York, New York, USA...and then Ellis Island in the details.  Is that how you have typically entered that information?

 
FYI
 
New York City, New York, New York DOES NOT *AUTO* GeoCode (latitude & Longitude)

New York City, New York DOES
New York City, Bronx, New York DOES
New York, Bronx, New York, DOES
New York, New York DOES

BUT THEN

Manhattan seems to ONLY *AUTO* GeoCode as:
Manhattan, Queens, New York *WOW* and then standardizes the name to Queens, New York, United States ?!%*
 
I do not utilize the Place Details feature (for ease of GEDCOM transfer ) and have elected to go this route:
 
2019-04-30-171942.jpg
 
BTW
 
Ellis Island is in Upper New York Bay, east of Liberty State Park and north of Liberty Island, in Jersey City, New Jersey, with a small section that is part of New York City. The original island is apparently part of New York but all the reclaimed land is part of New Jersey. The iconic former U.S. immigration point is actually just north of the Statue Of Liberty monument in the New Jersey harbor waters:

2019-04-30-144434.jpg

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#6 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3521 posts

Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:40 PM

Ah, the joys of exclaves and enclaves. They are really quite numerous, just not always well known.

 

I think you are correct that 100% of the water around Ellis Island is New Jersey and that all the reclaimed land on Ellis Island is New Jersey. But the original land on Ellis Island is New York. Similarly, 100% of the water around Liberty Island is New Jersey but all of the land on Liberty Island is New York. It makes geo-coding very interesting.

 

Jerry



#7 Vyger

Vyger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3404 posts

Posted 30 April 2019 - 05:29 PM

It makes geo-coding very interesting.

 

It's all in the Detail(s) :D


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#8 nwplouff

nwplouff

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 20 July 2019 - 07:02 PM

A little off-topic, but is there a chance RootsMagic could be updated to treat the names of the five New York City boroughs uniformly? Following the rule of "city, county, state, country," for instance, San Francisco is "San Francisco, San Francisco, California, United States." However, the CountyCheck Explorer does not correct all the boroughs this way. In particular, "Manhattan, New York" resolves to no locality, and "New York, New York, New York" gets one repetition clipped off.

 

This is ambiguous because "New York, New York" could mean "Manhattan," or it could mean "anywhere in New York City." The distinction is an important one for life events of some of my ancestors.

 

- Wes



#9 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3521 posts

Posted 21 July 2019 - 05:50 AM

A little off-topic, but is there a chance RootsMagic could be updated to treat the names of the five New York City boroughs uniformly?

 

RM uses geographic databases provided by other vendors under license. Hence RM has no control over the databases.

 

Jerry



#10 Vyger

Vyger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3404 posts

Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:05 PM

This is ambiguous because "New York, New York" could mean "Manhattan," or it could mean "anywhere in New York City." The distinction is an important one for life events of some of my ancestors.

 

- Wes

 

Make your own geographic reference base within Rootsmagic and geocode accordingly, I do this for the parishes of Ireland.

 

Gazetteer and County Check are not absolute resources, outside of USA there are many ommisions which need to be handled in a manual fashion, the geocoding is the point on earth, the locality of life events and needs to be clearly defined.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#11 Don Newcomb

Don Newcomb

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1042 posts

Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:51 PM

I tend to use modern place names rather than historic names (e.g. Aachen, Holy Roman Empire) because it fits better with the way RM thinks. 



#12 Paul Harris

Paul Harris

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts

Posted 03 August 2019 - 01:59 PM

It may help to understand that each of the five Boroughs of New York City are also counties in there own right:

 

Manhattan     = New York County

The Bronx     = Bronx County

Queens         = Queens County

Brooklyn        = Kings County

Staten Island = Richmond County

 

You'll be hard pressed to find a hard and fast rule with any official authority. You may want to develop your own way of dealing with these, as within each Borough there are also neighborhoods, which act like a city subdivision.

 

I have chosen thusly:

 

The Bronx, Bronx County, New York

Co-op City, Bronx County, New York

 

Brooklyn, Kings County, New York

 

New York, New York County, New York

Harlem, New York County, New York

 

Queens, Queens County, New York

Ridgewood, Queens County, New York

 

Staten Island, Richmond County, New York

Stapleton, Richmond County, New York

 

Your mileage may vary, but anyone familiar with NYC locations should understand.