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Changing a FACT type


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#1 jagwinn

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:01 PM

In EDIT PERSON, highlight a fact and choose OPTIONS > Change fact type. I tried to use this to change CENSUS to CENSUS (FAMILY), but the Census (Family) is not available [however CENSUS is]

 

I went to another EDIT PERSON and highlighted CENSUS (FAMILY), Options > Change fact type, and the option of CENSUS is not available [but CENSUS (FAMILY) is]

 

Is there a way to change CENSUS to CENSUS (FAMILY) ??



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:58 PM

 

Is there a way to change CENSUS to CENSUS (FAMILY) ??

 

No.

 

Census is an individual fact type. Census (Family) is a family fact type. Individual fact types can only be changed to other individual fact types. Family fact types can only be changes to other family fact types.

 

In any case, the Census (Family) fact type is much discussed on these forums because it often does not produce the results expected by the user. Family fact types such as Marriage and Divorce really only apply to the couple (the spouses), not to the whole family. The Census (Family) fact type is no different. It only applies to the couple, not to the whole family. It's fine to use it if that meets you needs, but you may find that it doesn't meet your needs. One workaround that some users have reported is to use the Census (Family) fact type and then to share it with the children. Depending on what you need to do, that might work for you. You will need to experiment to see what these things look like in reports.

 

Jerry



#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 09:40 AM

Jerry Bryan,
You posted this in April 2019 in response to a forum question regarding trying to change the fact type Census to type Census(family).
 
"Census is an individual fact type. Census (Family) is a family fact type. Individual fact types can only be changed to other individual fact types. Family fact types can only be changes to other family fact types. In any case, the Census (Family) fact type is much discussed on these forums because it often does not produce the results expected by the user. Family fact types such as Marriage and Divorce really only apply to the couple (the spouses), not to the whole family. The Census (Family) fact type is no different. It only applies to the couple, not to the whole family. It's fine to use it if that meets you needs, but you may find that it doesn't meet your needs. One workaround that some users have reported is to use the Census (Family) fact type and then to share it with the children. Depending on what you need to do, that might work for you. You will need to experiment to see what these things look like in reports."
 
My question, and my problem,  is a little different. I have been trying for sometime to determine the best/ most efficient way to share census data from the census head to the spouse and children. I've tried using both Census (family) and sharing Census facts with other census family members. Both work, but census(family) only shares with the spouse. However, the census(family) fact does transfer to Ancestry through Tree Share. Shared facts do not.
 
Because census records, sources, and media tend to be very labor intensive if entered separately for each individual, I have resorted to using sharing. Of course, this leaves me with the problem of not being able to transfer the shared census records to my tree on Ancestry for other than the "sharor" person.  My solution has been to place a comment on the Ancestry record of each of the census family members, with shared census data in RM, and referring the reader to the head of the family to see the census record.
 
Forgive me if I'm touching on an old topic.
Am I missing something, or is there a better way? I would appreciate any and all suggestions.
 
Thanks,
Rick
 

RickL


#4 zhangrau

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 10:15 AM

Documenting genealogy is, by necessity, a labor-intensive hobby. Not as in splitting logs for a cabin, but time-consuming.

 

Having read bajillions of posts looking for shortcuts and advise, I'll offer this thought:

 

Eventually, we will almost all want to transfer our data to another program (an online tree, or to different software). Many of us will hope to pass our body of work on to one of our younger family members. Every different program, whether online or disk-bound, uses a slightly different database model, and so there are issues with lost or mistranslated data during exchanges. My approach has been to avoid use of shared facts (not well supported by other programs). The long-term usefulness and security of my data matters a lot more to me than any number of saved keystrokes.

 

Have fun !!! And share your data and reports with family !!!



#5 KFN

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 01:12 PM

I agree with zhangrau comment.  I stay away from shared facts and just power through the best I can copying information from person to person.



#6 Rick Landrum

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 01:55 PM

Well, I see everybody's point. However, I'm no spring chicken ,so I'd like to finish my research and pass it on to family in this life time. If there is a shortcut, I'd like to know about it.  :D

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#7 KFN

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:17 PM

Rick,  I think for those of us that take genealogy seriously, we are all rather “long in the leg” and have become winter chickens. :rolleyes:



#8 Rick Landrum

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:24 PM

KFN,  I know, I was only kidding. I take it very seriously and want to do the best that I can given the limitations of the current software. I guess I will continue to use the "sharing" method, with appropriate notes added to point readers to the census record that does transfer. Hopefully some additional functionality will come out of RM8.

Rick

:rolleyes:


RickL


#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:38 PM

RM's family facts are not "shared" - not the Marriage fact, not the Divorce fact, and not the Census (family) fact. Rather, they are linked to a single family and the two spouses are then linked to the same family. In GEDCOM terms, the family facts are linked to FAM/FAMS tags and the two spouses are linked to the same FAM/FAMS tags. By contrast, RM's individual facts are linked to individual people in RM and they are linked to INDI tags in GEDCOM.

 

RM's shared facts work differently and require the creation of roles and witnesses. The witnesses are doubly linked - to the original fact in one direction and to the other person in the other direction.

 

I don't think ancestry or TMG really use the same model as RM and GEDCOM for family facts. Rather, I think it's more like a Marriage fact or a Divorce fact or a Census (family) fact is an individual fact which is duplicated for you automatically in TMG and ancestry. You enter enter the fact once and the fact is duplicated for you. Well, that may not be 100% accurate, but that's the way it feels. And in any case, however TMG and ancestry do it internally, they have to be able to convert back and forth between the data model for family facts that is used both by RM and by GEDCOM. So TMG and ancestry can't do things so differently that what they do can't be converted to and from GEDCOM.

 

I did try using RM's shared facts for census data briefly before I realized how poorly RM's shared facts work with other genealogy software. I'm a sample size of one, but honestly using RM's shared facts in this manner didn't save me any time. That's because I still needed to customize the note field and the role sentence differently for each family member to get them to read the way I wanted. I also discovered that such customization was lost even within RM on a drag and drop. So for me, the extra work of making separate Census facts for each family member met my needs better and didn't really cost me any extra time as compared to using shared facts. I would repeat that I'm a sample size of one.

 

Jerry



#10 Vyger

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:51 PM

My question, and my problem,  is a little different. I have been trying for sometime to determine the best/ most efficient way to share census data from the census head to the spouse and children. I've tried using both Census (family) and sharing Census facts with other census family members. Both work, but census(family) only shares with the spouse. However, the census(family) fact does transfer to Ancestry through Tree Share. Shared facts do not.

 

I use both Census Shared and Individual Facts for different reasons and to better define my reasons for using both would be the need to overcome the limitations within Rootsmagic, I avoid Family Facts all together.

 

The advantage of the Share Census Fact is that it encompasses the people who are on the return and not part of the immediate family, one downside is I cannot search for missing Census entries for particular individuals. The argument against compatibility with other programs is moot as the other software I use imports witness facts very well from an RM Gedcom output, programs that do not need to get their act together in my opinion.

 

TomH has a script which converts Shared Facts to Individual Facts and can be beneficial in certain needs, the argument as to whether RM should facilitate outputing Shared Facts as Individual or whether other programs need to translate Witness Facts is certainly one for further discussion, I believe the onus should not be on RM.

 

Working within RM I find Shared (Witness) Facts very beneficial for the more obscure family relationships often still to be discovered, also they are also more productive to enter. On the downside the reporting/searching within RM does not realize the benefits of this Shared information and is certainly something worthy of enhancement.


Keeping ones customers and their important views at a distance is never a good approach

 

User of Family Historian 7.0.3, Rootsmagic 7.6.5

 

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