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Print Report Descendants


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#1 baluo

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 09:17 AM

Hi,

 

I am not new to RootsMagic anymore but have so far used it only to store research information -- not really for the creation of a family tree.  Now I have been asked to print such a family tree with all clan members, including in-laws and others related to the family history.

 

However, I don't seem to be able to include family members like outside siblings or parents of an inlaw, step siblings or, in one case, the inheritor of a farm in Germany who is not anymore related directly with the original clan but continues the family name for legal reasons.  All these, and I don't yet know who else, i.e. people not direclty related through marriage, seem to be excluded.

 

I hope I can  make sense.

 

Have I overlooked something or is there any workaround for this problem?

 

Many thanks,

Gerhard



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 10:33 AM

I will be interested to see if others post some workarounds, but I believe your analysis is correct. There is no good way in RM to show the kinds of family relationships you are talking about in narrative reports. To the best I can, I approach the problem by including such information in notes, but the note approach is not perfect. 

 

For example, between them my two grandfathers were married five times - no divorces, rather the death of very young wives with small children and in one case a third marriage as a widower in his 70's.. As a result, both of my parents had half siblings. The half siblings show up in descendant narrative reports that come down through my grandfathers but the half siblings do not show up in descendant narrative reports that come down through my grandmothers. Also, my father really had three different sets of parents - his birth parents, an aunt and an uncle who raised him for several years because his mother died shortly after his birth, and then his birth father and his birth father's second wife after my grandfather remarried. So I try to include such information in notes.

 

I used my grandfathers as examples, but when I print narrative reports for family reunions, there are numerous other such examples where spouses of spouses, half siblings,, etc. do not show up. One thing that does help very slightly is that I use RM's shared fact facility to share marriage facts with each party to the marriage. The main reason for doing so is to have the marriages show up in timeline order for each party to the marriage. A secondary benefit is that spouses of spouses at least do show up RM's narrative reports for the spouses. But the half siblings still don't show up.

 

As you have already found out, you can enter all such relationships into RM just fine - multiple marriages for the same person, multiple sets of parents for the same person, etc. RM is excellent in its ability to enter such information. The problem arises when trying to print the information.

 

Jerry



#3 zhangrau

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 12:55 PM

All of my reports are done through the Reports > Publisher feature. I think there are some minor improvements that could be made, but it is a strong way communicate.

 

I have developed a typical sequence for my chapters, and standard text for chapters such as Preface, Acknowledgements, etc. That info is stored in a "template" book, from where I can copy & pste into the next new book I'm developing. I call it a template, and here's where an improvement would be nice: In programs like Excel, I can create a template worksheet and do a Copy or SaveAs to start a new project. In RM, I have to manually recreate a book for the new project, and manually copy & paste the info from my template to the new project. So the template is an archive of my ideas, but isn't a true starting point for the new project.

 

I'd say that my typical Genealogy book has about 2 dozen chapters (including indices). I've created some books with 4 score of chapters. I've come to the realization that my typical reader seems most comfortable with books under 300 pages, which sometimes leads to carefully considering omitting some of the additional Ancestor and/or Descendant narratives that I might like to include.

 

I also have a book template for a Scrapbook Companion, which prints all of the supporting documents. This is pretty easy to do, but not particularly elegant in RM. I create a dummy individual called [scrapbook] Surname, and use a custom fact called Scrapbook to create a list of the attached media (1-generation narrative), and the set of images (person scrapbook).

 

For my current project, for one of my cousins, I am also going to include a third volume of Pedigree charts. Within the Genealogy book, I normally include only 8-10 generations of pedigree charts. By splitting it into a third volume, I will be comfortable extending that to 20 generations or so. This volume will also get Name and Place indices, but not Endnotes nor Bibliography.

 

One major advantage of this scheme, is that once I've set up a book project, printing an update after additional research is quite simple -- the main effort of organization is already done.

 

From the Publisher book, I generate PDF files to share. Sometimes I have a local print shop produce one set of books for my reader, but the PDF files give the reader that option.

 

All of my books contain a notice reminding readers that there is much sensitive info compiled, and requesting that they do NOT post the book publicly.



#4 cj1260

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 01:21 PM

I'm not sure if this would be of help but if printing a simple chart of everyone is what you need, then you might want to look at GeneaQuilts (or Trellis) charts. They are charts of basically everyone that is connected in the database.

RM is not capable of printing these but you can export the RM data to other programs that can.



#5 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 01 April 2019 - 07:17 PM

Try to experiment with "Wall Charts".  It might get some of the relationships, but not everything you want.  Warning: the charts can get large.  I have never tried using print shops with large format prints in order to avoid taping 8 1/2 x 11 paper together.

 

Color-coding is supported on "Wall Charts".  Try a different color for each branch.



#6 baluo

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 10:18 AM

Hi all,

 

many thanks for your quick and informative responses.  Can I ask some more questions in this context?

 

1.  What actually is the problem for not printing out a whole database?

 

2.  @cj1260:  I have looked at the two programs, and they seem to be interesting;  however, other thean the names they don't seem to provide person information.

 

3. I had a look at "Count Trees" as I thought the families excluded from the print version would show up there as seperate trees -- but as far as I can see in my case they are mostly unlinked individuals who are either double or not yet linked. 

 

4. @Jerry Bryan

Thanks for the scenario you describe.  It seem to be similar to my case here:  a farmer's family in 18th century Germany where father A dies first; mother A marries new husband B;  she dies and father B marries mother C.  All three marriages produce their own children, i.e. step siblings, but it seems that the families descending from father B and mother C are excluded by RM.  This is ironical as father B was required by law to adopt the farm's name, and so the children of the B-C family had the name of the families A-A and B-A, rather than father B's maiden name. 

 

5.zhangrau

Many thanks for your advice, but I think I am not yet that advanced.  In fact, I have a number of questions in using custom facts and source templates, and similar issues (perhaps in a separate thread later).

 

So, I am bit at a loss at the moment.  G



#7 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 11:02 AM

I also have a book template for a Scrapbook Companion, which prints all of the supporting documents. This is pretty easy to do, but not particularly elegant in RM. I create a dummy individual called [scrapbook] Surname, and use a custom fact called Scrapbook to create a list of the attached media (1-generation narrative), and the set of images (person scrapbook).

 

I like your approach for printing supporting documents. I have long wished for better ways to include additional media files in RM reports, whether the media files be photographs of people or of houses or of barns or whatever, or whether the media files be exhibits such as census pages and death certificates. My most/least favorite example of wishing for better ways to include additional media files in RM reports is that I would like to link a photo of a grave marker to a burial fact in RM and then have the photo print out in a narrative report as a part of the burial fact. The best I can do with RM is to use Publisher and to have the grave marker print in a separate chapter. And creating dummy individuals (or dummy facts for real individuals) is a good way to provide a location in RM to which media files can be linked.

 

I am now a user of GedSite to make Web pages from my RM data, and GedSite supports exactly what I want to do - namely, it supports the display of media files that are linked directly to RM's facts. But I'm acutely aware that GedSite works as well as it does to display RM data only because it's displaying the data as Web pages. For example, displaying a census image in a RM narrative report along with the census fact might not look very good. In order to make the census image large enough to be legible, the census image would surely break up the flow of the narrative report. The approach with GedSite is that there is a thumbnail of the census page which is associated with the census fact in what amounts to a "narrative report page" for the person, and the Web user can click on the thumbnail to see the census page full size. But the thumbnail does not unduly break up the flow of the narrative as would an in place and full size census image.

 

So I continue to think about the best way to present my data - evidence and all - in a print format. I am persuaded that print format on real paper is the only thing likely to survive me in the long run run - say over the next 50 to 100 years.

 

Jerry



#8 baluo

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:55 AM

Many thanks for your information.  It does not make me happy, and so far I do not understand the programming problems (other than the potentially sheer size of a family tree).  As far as I have understood working with RM7 it seems to make it more difficult to pass on "clan" details like in-laws who are not connected by "blood lines".  In a  philosophical debate you could argue that in today's world of fractured families this is of no key criteria any longer in the first place.

 

So far this whole issue is not really important to me right now as I use RM7 mainly to store family related data in a wider research project.  But some family members start asking for classic family research results ...  __sigh__  I may have to look for an alternative.

 

Anyway, thanks again for this round of answers, and I will ask my next question in a few minutes.

G



#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:54 AM

There are other possibilities that I can think of. One of them would involve a lot of paper. Namely, print an Individual Summary report and for the report choose all the people you want in the report. The report is not inherently an ancestors report or a descendant report. Rather, it's a separate page for each person. That's why it would be a lot of paper. But you can choose people to include in the report based on descendants of a progenitor or based on ancestors of any particular person. The use of RM's Named Groups facility could be used to facilitate the choice of who to include in the report.

 

The report format is not too bad, and there are a lot of options about which information to include or exclude for each person. For my needs, the worst aspect of the formatting of the report aside from using a lot of paper is that fact notes are printed in a note section of the report which is separate from the facts themselves. The "one page per person" aspect of the report is remindful of GedSite's format, which is also one page per person. But GedSite's format is better overall, and in particular it keeps the fact notes with the facts just as you would see in an RM narrative report.

 

Another possible option that would be a lot of work would be RM's Publisher feature with multiple narrative reports in multiple chapters. For example, for the problem of my parents' half siblings, I could have descendant narrative chapters with my grandfathers as progenitors and other descendant chapters with my grandmothers as progenitors. The reason this approach would be so much work would be in creating all the chapters needed to address all the blended family issues you are trying to portray. Also, this approach would produce a lot of duplication.

 

Jerry

 



#10 Trebor22

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:42 AM

It obviously depends on how big your tree is but if its dating back to 18th century it sounds like it could be very large, are you talking about a 'graphical tree'? or 'book format' either way it could be a lot of paper! Do you intend to pass copies on to family members? If so it might it be worth considering a shareable CD instead of printing? Either the option offered by RM or with something like Jerry uses - gedsite - which should work ok from a CD on any modern PC with a CD drive, where no drive you could circulate via usb stick or cloud.You can include everybody in the database.