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create Group by selecting for Source title

create group source title

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#1 zhangrau

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 12:31 PM

In making updating revisions on my database, I had occasion to want a new Group made by selecting which individuals were linked to a particular Master Source.

 

I know that I could run a [Print] command in the Source List, but that result can't be used to create a Group.

 

I tried several times to use the Search by data field options, but none of my early attempts worked. Eventually I created a more complex search using four different criteria with OR boolean operators. I don't actually know which of the four criteria achieved what I was after, but this final search returned 68 results.

 

I then displayed the Group in People view, and sorted on the Last edited column.

 

Scanning that column, I could see that I updated individuals in that Group between 22 Feb 2006 and 27 Dec 2018.

 

 

rm7-select-group-by-source-title.png



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 09:20 PM

Mark on the following.

    Any fact >         source > name contains > (search string)

OR  Source (general)          > name contains > (search string)

In this case, "name contains" refers to the name of the Master Source, not the name of the person. You may or may not have to be a bit careful with your search string if you have several Master Sources that are similarly named.

 

This is one of the cases where I complain that RM is too much like a Russian novel, where the same item in RM has different names at different points in the user interface. So "name contains" doesn't necessarily jump out at you as the name of a Master Source.

 

Jerry



#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:30 AM

Jerry,

Like zhangrau, I have been trying to create groups for sources, but for a different purpose. I want to create a group for each category of Master Sources in my list. I insert a "prefix" in front of my master source names (Example - [CEN] = census). Having these groups would speed up my searches of the Master Source list to determine whether or not the source name already exists. When trying to creatie a new group, I've tried, in my example, searching for source (general) > name contains > [CEN], and no records are found. It's as if the find function does not search the name of the master source. I've also tried numerous other fields, such as "any fact", "source (family)", etc. 

Any suggestions

Thanks

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:27 PM

Try searching on Any Fact, Source (family), Source (general) on the Source Name to see where it was used. 

Example: Any fact - Source - name contains - xxxx

 

The other place to find them is using Search>Find Everywhere. 


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#5 TomH

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:51 PM

 

 searching for source (general) > name contains > [CEN], and no records are found. 

 

Maybe the square brackets are a problem. Try "CEN" by itself.


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#6 TomH

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:23 PM

 

Maybe the square brackets are a problem. Try "CEN" by itself.

No, they are not an issue having just checked. Rather, I think your issue is the construct of your search. You must recognise that Sources are assigned to three different categories and the search tool acts accordingly. A citation tagged to the Person row in the Edit Person screen is a "Source (general)". A citation tagged to the Spouse row is a "Source (family)". A citation tagged to an event, be it an individual or family event is found via the Any Fact filter. So a comprehensive filter includes all of these criteria:

 

Source (general) > > name contains > [CEN]

OR

Source (family) > > name contains > [CEN]

OR

Any Fact > source > name contains > [CEN]


Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#7 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:49 PM

 A citation tagged to the Person row in the Edit Person screen is a "Source (general)". A citation tagged to the Spouse row is a "Source (family)". A citation tagged to an event, be it an individual or family event is found via the Any Fact filter. So a comprehensive filter includes all of these criteria:

 

This is absolutely correct. However, I wonder how many users actually have any citations tagged to the spouse row? Such citations do appear in narrative reports, but the citation superscripts sort of "float in in mid-air" because there is nothing in the report text to attach them to. So I suspect that most users don't use them.

 

The best test to see what's going on has already been described. Before making a group, use the same criteria to do a search to see what happens. For testing purposes, I would first test one criterion at a time instead of all three at the same time. First, search for Source (Individual), second search for Source (Family), and third search  for Any Fact Source - just to see what happens.

 

Another possibility occurs to me. The search panel defaults to AND between the criteria, and this search requires the AND default to be changed to OR. I wonder if that change was done?

 

Jerry



#8 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:05 AM

No, they are not an issue having just checked. Rather, I think your issue is the construct of your search. You must recognise that Sources are assigned to three different categories and the search tool acts accordingly. A citation tagged to the Person row in the Edit Person screen is a "Source (general)". A citation tagged to the Spouse row is a "Source (family)". A citation tagged to an event, be it an individual or family event is found via the Any Fact filter. So a comprehensive filter includes all of these criteria:

 

Source (general) > > name contains > [CEN]

OR

Source (family) > > name contains > [CEN]

OR

Any Fact > source > name contains > [CEN]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I've run a number of tests using the suggestions and I've found the following. For my purposes, the "search everywhere" option works the best. It's slow, but it does work. I think I was of a misunderstanding regarding "groups". Nothing I could do would generate a "group of sources", only "of people" with those type sources. What I wanted was a quick way of calling up a list of master sources with my particular "prefix". The master source list automatically sorts the sources, but you have to scroll down through the list to find what you want. Still, this is probably the fastest way. All in all I learned some new things about groups in the exercise. 

Thanks again

Rick


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#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:45 AM

Nothing I could do would generate a "group of sources", only "of people" with those type sources.

 

Yes, that's the way it works with sources. There have been numerous unfulfilled requests through the years for improvements in RM's source management. A simple filter on the source list would meet your needs very nicely, but such filtering doesn't exist in RM7. It will be interesting to see what if any improvements are in RM8 in this regard.

 

With respect to RM's plain vanilla Search capability (not Search Everywhere), the facility has a very subtle problem. Namely (and as you noted), it only searches for people. It can't really search for dates or facts or places or sources or citations or anything like that. Rather, it searches for PEOPLE who have dates or facts or places or citations etc. It may seem like the same thing, but it really isn't. And the same basic dialog that is used for plain vanilla Search is also used for the Marking and Unmarking that is used for making groups and for color coding. So you can only make groups of PEOPLE. You can't filter on dates or facts or sources or citations or anything like that.

 

For the most part RM's plain vanilla search meets my needs pretty well anyway. A major exception is that it is impossible to target two different search criteria to the same fact. For example, a search for an 1850 census in Texas will match somebody who had an 1850 census in Tennessee and an 1860 census in Texas. I get around this problem in part with SQLite queries and in part by using a different user defined fact type for every census year. The census fact problem also affects People View and makes People View essentially useless for processing census data unless you use a different user defined fact type for every census year.

 

For facts, one thing that would help tremendously would a new main view called Event View which would work on events (AKA facts) instead of on people. The Event View would/could solve many existing searching problems, especially if it had good filtering and sorting capability. There is a wish list item for this new view, but my hopes are not high that it will ever be implemented.

 

RM's Search Everywhere seldom meets my needs very well. For one thing, it's way too slow. You need to be able to target it just to places or just to sources or just to whatever. You also need to be able to filter Search Everywhere by group. Indeed, in addition to not being dynamic, RM's group facility is way underutilized. There are lots of things in RM that need to be able to be filtered by group that are not filterable by group in RM7. But most importantly Find Everywhere doesn't always give me the full context of what it found. If I try to edit what I found, it's sometimes like I'm flying blind. For some types of data, Find Everywhere doesn't have this problem but the problem is severe for the citations it finds.

 

Jerry



#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:49 AM

The master source list automatically sorts the sources, but you have to scroll down through the list to find what you want.

 

You can quickly move down the source list (and many other lists in RM) by clicking on an item in the list and then you just start typing what you are looking for. For example, type [ and then C  and then E and then N and it will take you straight to the census entries in your source list. I really don't like this mode of operation and I would really rather have filtering, but this sort of smart typing does actually work quite well and I'm used to it.

 

Jerry



#11 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:58 AM

 

Yes, that's the way it works with sources. There have been numerous unfulfilled requests through the years for improvements in RM's source management. A simple filter on the source list would meet your needs very nicely, but such filtering doesn't exist in RM7. It will be interesting to see what if any improvements are in RM8 in this regard.

 

With respect to RM's plain vanilla Search capability (not Search Everywhere), the facility has a very subtle problem. Namely (and as you noted), it only searches for people. It can't really search for dates or facts or places or sources or citations or anything like that. Rather, it searches for PEOPLE who have dates or facts or places or citations etc. It may seem like the same thing, but it really isn't. And the same basic dialog that is used for plain vanilla Search is also used for the Marking and Unmarking that is used for making groups and for color coding. So you can only make groups of PEOPLE. You can't filter on dates or facts or sources or citations or anything like that.

 

For the most part RM's plain vanilla search meets my needs pretty well anyway. A major exception is that it is impossible to target two different search criteria to the same fact. For example, a search for an 1850 census in Texas will match somebody who had an 1850 census in Tennessee and an 1860 census in Texas. I get around this problem in part with SQLite queries and in part by using a different user defined fact type for every census year. The census fact problem also affects People View and makes People View essentially useless for processing census data unless you use a different user defined fact type for every census year.

 

For facts, one thing that would help tremendously would a new main view called Event View which would work on events (AKA facts) instead of on people. The Event View would/could solve many existing searching problems, especially if it had good filtering and sorting capability. There is a wish list item for this new view, but my hopes are not high that it will ever be implemented.

 

RM's Search Everywhere seldom meets my needs very well. For one thing, it's way too slow. You need to be able to target it just to places or just to sources or just to whatever. You also need to be able to filter Search Everywhere by group. Indeed, in addition to not being dynamic, RM's group facility is way underutilized. There are lots of things in RM that need to be able to be filtered by group that are not filterable by group in RM7. But most importantly Find Everywhere doesn't always give me the full context of what it found. If I try to edit what I found, it's sometimes like I'm flying blind. For some types of data, Find Everywhere doesn't have this problem but the problem is severe for the citations it finds.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

I hope they also add a "search and replace" function for "sources". (the help file says they have it but they don't). This would help me greatly in my effort to identify and correct duplicate sources added by TreeShare in the past. I no longer use TreeShare to load sources or media to RM. I just use it as an extended search tool. I load my own source template to RM. However, changing, and merging sources, has proven to be a huge task, given the avaialable search tools.

Rick


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#12 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 08:00 AM

 

You can quickly move down the source list (and many other lists in RM) by clicking on an item in the list and then you just start typing what you are looking for. For example, type [ and then C  and then E and then N and it will take you straight to the census entries in your source list. I really don't like this mode of operation and I would really rather have filtering, but this sort of smart typing does actually work quite well and I'm used to it.

 

Jerry

Yes, I use it to jump to the start of a series in the list, but then I still have to scroll to find the right source.

Thanks

Rick


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#13 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:01 AM

Yes, I use it to jump to the start of a series in the list, but then I still have to scroll to find the right source.

 

You can continue typing as long as you wish to avoid any scrolling at all. My Master Source naming conventions are very similar to yours, but are slightly different. For example, if I were looking for the death certificate for John Andrew Williamson in my source list, I could type in the following until I got to the right Master Source. In practice, as soon as I get close enough to actually see the one I'm looking for I just click on it instead of continuing to type. As soon as I got to the "n" at the end of Williamson, I could probably see it. But if not, I could continue with comma, blank, J, etc. I seldom have name collisions in my source list, but if so I can always add additional characters to make the name of the source unique - such as the date of the record.

*death: Williamson, John Andrew

Jerry



#14 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:52 AM

 

You can continue typing as long as you wish to avoid any scrolling at all. My Master Source naming conventions are very similar to yours, but are slightly different. For example, if I were looking for the death certificate for John Andrew Williamson in my source list, I could type in the following until I got to the right Master Source. In practice, as soon as I get close enough to actually see the one I'm looking for I just click on it instead of continuing to type. As soon as I got to the "n" at the end of Williamson, I could probably see it. But if not, I could continue with comma, blank, J, etc. I seldom have name collisions in my source list, but if so I can always add additional characters to make the name of the source unique - such as the date of the record.

*death: Williamson, John Andrew

Jerry

Jerry,

Good point. However, I'm still trying to clean up my source "mess" so unfortunately my stuff is not always as structured as yours. All my new ones are, and eventually I'll have all mine straight. I still have a lot of duplication, or near duplication, and it will take a while to clean it up.

Rick


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#15 Kamolga

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:01 AM

I made some SQL queries to group people per master source and posted them here:https://sqlitetoolsf...rce/#postid-47.

The first one update a group with everyone citing a specific master source. 


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