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Renaming Media

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:22 AM

Seeking advice 

 

Regarding the renaming of media imported from Ancestry TreeShare to RM

 

I have attempted to use numerous suggestions and hints for renaming the Ancestry media files (which have non-discrpt file names) to make them searchable in my RM media directory by perons names, dates, events, etc. My thinking has been that I needed to rename the files in this manner in both my media directory and in the RM Gallery. This has proven to be at best time consuming, tedious, and difficult, and at worst error prone.

 

After some months of trying to come up with a better strategy, I have decided to begin doing the following:

1) Allow media files to retain the Ancestry name ID in my media directory.

2) Use my naming conventions in the media caption field in RM

example - LastName, FirstName-Description-Date (Doe,John-Grave Marker-18xx)

 

The properties for the media will show the path to the Media Directory File (including the Ancestry Media ID).

 

You can search the RM media gallery by any of the text in the caption field, leading you to the Ancestry Media ID, which can then be used (if necessary) to search the media directory to find the given media file. The key is to use consistent media naming in the caption field.

 

Of course this method does not lend itself to a "direct" search of the media directory, without first searching the media gallery for the Ancestry media ID.

 

My experience has been that I really don't need to search the media directory independent of RM (or at least very seldom) so the above method is faster, cleaner, and does retain the Ancestry media ID (name) within RM. 

 

I would like to hear other's thoughts on any "low wires" that I may be missing by doing this.

Thanks

Rick

 

 

 


RickL


#2 Vyger

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:25 PM

2) Use my naming conventions in the media caption field in RM

example - LastName, FirstName-Description-Date (Doe,John-Grave Marker-18xx)

 

You seem to alredy realize that Media Gallery caption has no direct relation to the file, hence I try not to rely on Media Gallery for such information, something worth considering.

 

My system is shown below, it's served me pretty well but I intend to upgrade the category suffix to the appropriate 4 letter gedcom tag at some time in the future.

 

https://youtu.be/25gkgOAgv3k


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#3 KFN

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:24 PM

Remember too, that you can add metadata tags to jpg files in Windows that can be used to search for files in your file structure. Therefore, you can use the file names that ACOM generates and if you add metadata tags that relate directly to the items, people or documents found in the jpg you can still search on those tags. Windows Explorer has the ability to updates the metadata tags as does several other photo management programs.

#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:22 PM

I know it's old school, but I don't trust things like RM's media captions and the metadata tags in JPG files.

 

In the case of RM, I lost all my media captions in RM when RM introduced it's tagging method of connecting media files to objects in RM. RM's data model changed and the change in data model cost me all my captions. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I shan't be fooled twice. Plus RM's Media Gallery is not a very robust media manager, anyway.

 

In the case of metadata tags in JPG files, I think there is too little software that supports them and even in the software that does metadata tags are too hard to deal with. Searching the metadata tags, viewing them in bulk (like viewing them in an Excel spreadsheet), etc. just seems very hard or impossible to me. Or maybe I'm just too simple minded to figure it out. 

 

Therefore I try to keep adequate search strings in the Windows file names to find media files easily by searching, and I try to organize media files by folders and subfolders to facilitate such searching.

 

In the case of captioning, the only thing I really trust is the "write on the back of the photograph" method. In the case of media files, I add white space around the original photo and add the captioning with Microsoft Paint. So it's "writing on the front of the photograph electronically", except that I write on added white space instead of on the space of the original image so nothing in the original image is disturbed.

 

Microsoft Paint is a very primitive tool, and the captioning I add just flattens out to pixels. But I don't care. If I have to re-caption, then I just re-caption. I used to do my captioning in this manner with GIMP which supports layering and the text layers remain as editable text layers instead of being flattened. But GIMP is a hard program to use, in my opinion, not worth the effort for my use case. And the layered files with the editable text are in a GIMP proprietary format that have to be exported as JPG or some such before I can publish them anyway. So I have basically two copies of each photo - the uncaptioned and unmodified original, and the captioned and modified copy. It's the captioned copy that I publish.

 

Because JPG is a lossy format, I do this kind of editing with PNG files which are fully supported by all browsers. PNG files are not lossy, but each time you edit a JPG file is loses resolution. TIF files are not lossy, but they are not supported by most browsers. PDF files are not image files.

 

I presently have very little of this kind of work online, but you can seen an example at http://jerrybryan.co...1/p51.htm#i1259  Another example is at http://jerrybryan.co...e/g1/p1.htm#i14 The photographs are captioned as I described. The source images (census, etc.) are not captioned because they are more or less self-identifying. But if I needed to do so, I could caption any sources images in the same manner. 100% of the data on this page came from RM and was transmitted via GEDCOM to GedSite software which formatted the Web pages. I "published" the pages by FTP'ing them to my Web site. Unfortunately, GedSite's pages do not support clicking on my images to see larger versions. Instead you have to click on the little icon above the image to see larger versions.

 

Jerry

 



#5 KFN

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 06:51 PM

In the case of metadata tags in JPG files, I think there is too little software that supports them and even in the software that does metadata tags are too hard to deal with. Searching the metadata tags, viewing them in bulk (like viewing them in an Excel spreadsheet), etc. just seems very hard or impossible to me. Or maybe I'm just too simple minded to figure it out.


Jerry,

Windows itself supports metadata tags very well, both adding them to a file and searching for files that contain the tags.

To add a tag in Windows Explorer do the following:
1) Navigate to the folder where the image file is stored
2) Make sure the Detail Panel is displayed
3) Add a tag to the “tags” node, multiple tags are separated by a semi-colon.
4) A tag could be a date, a family surname, a location, any other thing that you might place in the files name.

To search for tags in Windows Explorer do this: In the search bar, enter “tags:yourtag”. Without the quotes and replacing yourtag with the search tag.

As far as other software using tags, I believe that most of the free photo management software that used to come with digital cameras use tags to mark jpg files.

As far as pgn vs jpg files you are right that pgn files are better with less loss, but for documents that most people create in the genealogy world jpg is just fine. Adding information that is human readable on the image is however a great idea, and I use it in conjunction with digital ids and a rather robust database.

#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:59 PM

I have seen the Window tags facility. What happens to the Windows tags if the file leaves the Windows environment? Does the Windows tag data become IPTC information that stays with the file?

I'm aware of things like IPTC editors and EXIF editors. I think for the purposes of this discussion, we are much more interested in IPTC data than EXIF data - except that the EXIF data can contain things like GPS coordinates for photos of cemetery markers. Maybe I just need to become much more knowledgeable than I am about Windows tags and IPTC editors, but it just seem to me that Windows tags and IPTC data does not put the data front and center in the way I like to see it (or maybe I really do need to become more knowledgeable about such things :) ).

 

Jerry

 

 

 

P.S. It looks like Windows tags do become IPTC data. For example, I found a pretty good write-up at https://www.organizi...ywords-windows/ and I'm sure there must be other good write-ups. It also looks like file tags on a Mac do NOT become IPTC data. Very strange.

 

I do need to play with available tools a lot more, both Windows itself and also actual IPTC editors. But very honestly (and just looking at the write-up I cited) I found the Windows user interface for tags to be off-putting - very clicky and drill down and one thing at a time. I'm not 100% sure without playing with things a lot more if it's really that way or not. But I think I would like the tags to be presented along with the file names in an Excel spreadsheet like format where you can type directly into the tag fields without drill downs and pop-up windows. It's the same sort of thing I complain about regularly when it comes to the RM user interface. It doesn't have to be Excel, but I really like the look and feel of data entry and data display in a spreadsheet format. Spreadsheet format for display is not good enough if it does not also include data entry in spreadsheet format without pop-ups and drill downs. IMHO.



#7 Rick Landrum

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 01:49 PM

I have seen the Window tags facility. What happens to the Windows tags if the file leaves the Windows environment? Does the Windows tag data become IPTC information that stays with the file?

I'm aware of things like IPTC editors and EXIF editors. I think for the purposes of this discussion, we are much more interested in IPTC data than EXIF data - except that the EXIF data can contain things like GPS coordinates for photos of cemetery markers. Maybe I just need to become much more knowledgeable than I am about Windows tags and IPTC editors, but it just seem to me that Windows tags and IPTC data does not put the data front and center in the way I like to see it (or maybe I really do need to become more knowledgeable about such things :) ).

 

Jerry

 

 

 

P.S. It looks like Windows tags do become IPTC data. For example, I found a pretty good write-up at https://www.organizi...ywords-windows/ and I'm sure there must be other good write-ups. It also looks like file tags on a Mac do NOT become IPTC data. Very strange.

 

I do need to play with available tools a lot more, both Windows itself and also actual IPTC editors. But very honestly (and just looking at the write-up I cited) I found the Windows user interface for tags to be off-putting - very clicky and drill down and one thing at a time. I'm not 100% sure without playing with things a lot more if it's really that way or not. But I think I would like the tags to be presented along with the file names in an Excel spreadsheet like format where you can type directly into the tag fields without drill downs and pop-up windows. It's the same sort of thing I complain about regularly when it comes to the RM user interface. It doesn't have to be Excel, but I really like the look and feel of data entry and data display in a spreadsheet format. Spreadsheet format for display is not good enough if it does not also include data entry in spreadsheet format without pop-ups and drill downs. IMHO.

Jerry,

Thanks a lot for the link. That's an excellent write up and it answered a number of questions I had. I'm still considering the many hints folks have posted. Appreciate those very much by the way.

 

I think I'm leaning toward using Window's IPTC data (tags and comments). I am experimenting with copying the caption and details from the RM media file properties (except for the file name & path), and pasting that into the Windows file detail comments field. I also enter the name of the person in the Windows file tag (Doe, John). This makes the Windows directory searchable by the Ancestry file name ID, the person's name, and by any of the properties text from RM. That much works great. It is also very easy to do.

 

I was not aware that there had been issues in the past with RM changing the caption functionality. However, I assume that backups of the RM database and Media Gallery would pretty much protect against that. Windows, on the other hand, could also change their file details data functionality. I regularly back up my PC, but I'm not sure what could happen if they made a change. You can save a directory/file list as a text/Excel file, but I have not yet found a way to save the list with the tags and comments included. If I could do that all would be good. I would just add that to my backup routine.

 

Anyway, I'm getting there.

Thanks again for your help.

Rick


RickL


#8 TomH

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 03:09 PM

Re transferring data from RM to metadata embedded in image files, this page may be of interest to you, despite Picasa's demise. Substitute some other photo manager. https://sqlitetoolsf...re-with-picasa/

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SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#9 Vyger

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 03:13 PM

This is not a new discussion as will be seen on the link below started by TomH in 2012, personally I make extensive use of metadata but one must be careful of restrictive save routines like Photoshops 'save for web' which strips them out.

 

http://forums.rootsm...tadata-with-rm/

 

I wrote up my views around 2010 on the page below, some of those wishes have been fulfilled now and some are still relevent today, I don't maintain that site at present.

 

http://www.vyger.co....ry-collections/

 

The image below is the extract from that page again dating back to around 2010.

 

media-gallery-overview.png


“Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” -Bill Gates

 

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.5.8, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5 (in order of preference)

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 03:14 PM

However, I assume that backups of the RM database and Media Gallery would pretty much protect against that.

 

My RM backups were of no help in my use case. Previous to the change in RM, a single media item could contain multiple captions depending on which object in RM the media was tagged to. This was important to me, for example, for group photos that I would attach to different people in RM with a different caption depending on the person to whom the photo was attached. Subsequent to the change in RM, a single media item could contain only a single caption. Therefore, I couldn't restore the captions from a backup since the new RM design had no place to store the multiple captions.

 

I do realize that there is one school of thought that says that a photo really should have only caption. But I am not of that school of thought. I think captions need to be context sensitive.

 

I had put this issue out of sight and out of mind for a long time, but it became much more front and center when I adopted GedSite as a way of publishing some of my RM data. GedSite will support captions both from IPTC data and from RM. But I like my way of captioning, where I add white space to the photo and add the captioning information there, along with highly meaningful and searchable file names for the image files themselves. My file names essentially become my searchable tags.

 

The primary tool I have used for years to display IPTC and EXIF data has been Irfanview. But Irfanview's user interface to this data is very clicky, drill down, and one file at a time - and there is no searching or filtering capability for this data in Irfanview. In doing some recent searches, it looks like there are a lot of similar software that all seems to work in a similar way. I haven't found one yet that allows display and update in any sort of simple grid format. Windows itself comes pretty close for displaying the data, but if I understand it correctly then Windows is still very clicky and drill down for updating the data.

 

Jerry



#11 TomH

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 03:37 PM

Jerry, you might want to look at ExifToolGUI, a GUI front end for ExifTool by Phil Harvey. The latter has many utilities built around it, for both Windows and Mac but I must confess I have not used it in years, not because there was something wrong with it, rather that I do so little data research and publishing.


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#12 Rick Landrum

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 09:26 AM

Seeking advice 

 

Regarding the renaming of media imported from Ancestry TreeShare to RM

 

....................................

 


I want to thank everyone for their feedback and suggestions. I have a lot better understanding of the issue now, and plenty to consider going forward.

I also want to apologize for reopening what is obviously an "old can of worms". I was unaware of all the discussion about this problem in the past.

 

For now I'm going with the process of copying properties data from RM and pasting it into my Windows directory in the tag and or comments details. This has several significant advantages for me. 1) its fast and easy to do, 2) I do not have to rename and resync file names, and 3) it gives me very good searchability in both my Windows directory and my RM Media Gallery. The key is using my naming conventions in the RM captions and details consistently. The Windows ITPC media metadata appears to transfer well to other platforms and I can easily back it up in my usual PC backup routine.

 

Looking forward to possibly seeing better metadata functionality in RM in the future.

 

Thanks again

Rick

 


RickL


#13 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 11:26 AM

I want to thank everyone for their feedback and suggestions. I have a lot better understanding of the issue now, and plenty to consider going forward.

I also want to apologize for reopening what is obviously an "old can of worms". I was unaware of all the discussion about this problem in the past.

 

For now I'm going with the process of copying properties data from RM and pasting it into my Windows directory in the tag and or comments details. This has several significant advantages for me. 1) its fast and easy to do, 2) I do not have to rename and resync file names, and 3) it gives me very good searchability in both my Windows directory and my RM Media Gallery. The key is using my naming conventions in the RM captions and details consistently. The Windows ITPC media metadata appears to transfer well to other platforms and I can easily back it up in my usual PC backup routine.

 

Looking forward to possibly seeing better metadata functionality in RM in the future.

 

Thanks again

Rick

 

 

Perhaps a little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows how to download a list of files with property details (tags & comments) from Windows 10 file explorer? I know how to download a directory file list, but not "with tags and comments". I've researched this on the internet but can't find anything on getting the details into the listing. My objective is to download the list and put it into Excel to help with the clean up of my RM media directory.  Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#14 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 11:32 AM

Perhaps a little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows how to download a list of files with property details (tags & comments) from Windows 10 file explorer? I know how to download a directory file list, but not "with tags and comments". I've researched this on the internet but can't find anything on getting the details into the listing. My objective is to download the list and put it into Excel to help with the clean up of my RM media directory.  Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Rick

 

I think this is pretty much on topic. I'm assuming you want the data into Excel because it's not really sufficient to manage the data from Windows 10 File Explorer, just by looking at the screen and filtering and sorting what you are looking at?

 

Jerry



#15 kbens0n

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 01:32 PM

Perhaps a little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows how to download a list of files with property details (tags & comments) from Windows 10 file explorer? I know how to download a directory file list, but not "with tags and comments". I've researched this on the internet but can't find anything on getting the details into the listing. My objective is to download the list and put it into Excel to help with the clean up of my RM media directory.  Any suggestions appreciated.


I just tried this little set of Powershell scripts on an image directory and it works (creates a .CSV for import to Excel). Pretty straightforward directions:
https://stackoverflo...274066#53274066

NOTE:
Right-click <Fileproperty.ps1>, select <Open With>, then <Choose another app>, then <More apps>, then <Look for another app on this PC>, then browse to folder
C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0 and choose <powershell.exe>

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#16 Rick Landrum

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

 

I think this is pretty much on topic. I'm assuming you want the data into Excel because it's not really sufficient to manage the data from Windows 10 File Explorer, just by looking at the screen and filtering and sorting what you are looking at?

 

Jerry

Exactly - I want to be able to quickly scan the media directory and see which files have the tag & or comments completed. It would also be great to be able to make the changes in Excel and then load the changes back to windows. If that is not doable I can use the Excel worksheet to deternmine which files need to be updated.

Rick


RickL


#17 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 03:29 PM

Right-click <Fileproperty.ps1>, select <Open With>, then <Choose another app>, then <More apps>, then <Look for another app on this PC>, then browse to folder
C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0 and choose <powershell.exe>

Could you not simply start PowerShell from the Start Menu (maybe need Admin privilege), CD to where <Fileproperty.ps1> is stored and then type "Fileproperty.ps1" sans quotes and <Enter>?


Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#18 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 03:35 PM

MP3Tag is a wonderful spreadsheet style app to display and edit MP3 tags. There must be others for specific file types such as images (I mentioned one earlier whose add-on utilities provided a GUI but I think the editing was all form-based). I don't know that it would be reasonable or feasible for there to be one that could handle all file types.


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SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#19 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 04:10 PM

Focusing on image metadata (the filetype that surely must dominate your RootsMagic Media Gallery), have a look at this WikiPedia page for a wide range of possibilities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_digital_image_metadata_editors 

 

However, my own quick overview of the listings did not reveal any that popped out with a spreadsheet style display/editor comparable to MP3Tag. I wonder if that is because there are possibly many more different fields and formats for metadata for digital images than there are for audio files. That said, you'd think that a spreadsheet that let you select which fields to display/edit would be possible to program.


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#20 kbens0n

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 05:11 PM

Could you not simply start PowerShell from the Start Menu (maybe need Admin privilege), CD to where <Fileproperty.ps1> is stored and then type "Fileproperty.ps1" sans quotes and <Enter>?


Sure, for command-line aware folks... was just accommodating the less-technical (neophyte). Though not mentioned above, that procedure also allows for the option of setting (with a checkmark option) the chosen file extension(s) to subsequently automatically be opened(run by powershell.exe) with the common double-click to execute method of file startup.

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N