21 replies to this topic

[koornalla]

I wish for RM to be completely web based with full functionality incorporated.

 

That should be the end game objective even if it takes 5 years to achieve.

 

Publicly, spell it out now, stop all client based development and move towards this objective ASAP.

 

This is the future!!!

 

 

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[zhangrau]

I don't think I'm alone in wanting to keep my software and data OFF the web.

 

Reasons:

 

 - Security. Every couple of months there is another revelation  of data breaches. Privacy requires security, and the web just isn't secure.

 

- Inadequate web access. Despite all the hullabaloo from the tech giants, web access is NOT universal. This affects cell phone use and web use by computers. There are still LOTS of places that I visit with limited web access. Sometimes it is just not available, other times it is behind a pay wall.

[Jerry Bryan]

I would move off RM if it became Web based.

 

As zhangrau said, I don't want my genealogical data on the Web. But just as importantly, I have never met a Web based app that was even remotely as functional as a desktop based app that provides the same service.

 

The same is true in the mobile world. It's no accident that "there's an app for that". It's no accident that you mostly use apps on your mobile device and that your browser is not the only app on your mobile device.

 

I think RM's mobile app is making a mistake in keeping your entire RMGC database with the app, and I think that MyRootsMagic is making a bit of a mistake in keeping your entire RMGC database with the app. Doing so is a security risk, and it makes it difficult to keep a subset of your database on your mobile device or on MyRootsMagic because the only way to make a subset is drag and drop. I have never used MyRootsMagic except with a play database because my database is too big and because I don't trust the security. I do use RM's mobile app, but I grit my teeth about the security risks of having a complete and unencrypted copy of my RM database on my mobile devices. For some reason, it wouldn't surprise me if RM8 included a mobile app that could update your RM data. If so, I doubt that I would use it. The user interface would almost have to be awful - tiny screen and no keyboard. And I'm doubtful the security would be adequate.

 

Jerry

[robertjacobs0]

I hope the web isn't "the future," or at least not the entire future. We've already seen the conniptions that developers and users have suffered whilst trying to shoehorn their formats and data into Ancestry and Family Search. It would be far better IMO to have one's own flexible software so that formats and reports are obedient to one's own needs, wishes & designs.

 

Web data also presents issues of privacy, security and permanence which are not under users' control. Not for me, thank you.

[Trebor22]

I'm also very much in the 'desktop camp' ! I'll share a lot of my research online but I cannot see it being main storage / work place.

Seem to remember there was some discussion of this topic on another recent (ish) thread.

[John_of_Ross_County]

I am old enough to keep using the current version of RootsMagic on my current computer without ever buying another RM update or another computer.  Going to a web based version of RootsMagic would stop any future purchase.  And I started with Family Origins Version 2.

[Tabbyb]

No way do I want it Web based  - I would stop using it   - Internet  is not at all safe  and i dont want all my tree open to everyone.  Bad enough when people copy your tree and use it on their open web based  tree.  

 

I prefer Stand alone  based with the USB on the go option - much safer.    

 

Have both options if you want but  thats go to be the way forward  not just web.

[Less]

So much has changed in the computing world in the 4 years since RM7 was released that, as Wayne's request implies, the current desktop model is no longer sufficient. I think most of us would agree to that. I have a desktop and a laptop, and would love to be able to use RM from both, easily. I want to be able to update the information that I make available to the public, online, easily. I will definitely always focus on my LOCAL data being the master, having all the information in it, some of it for my eyes only.

 

There will always be a difference between what I want the wider public to see, what I want family to see, and what I see. For the info that only I can see, if it's to be available to me when I'm mobile (via mobile phone, web interface, or laptop download) the online storage would have to be encrypted. 

 

It's a complicated problem, and all I can hope for is that this next version of RM, whenever it shows up, takes a few really good steps in the right direction.

 

This is all so convoluted now that it's gotten to the point that even Eastman recently suggested giving up desktop software and moving everything online, to MyHeritage. I nearly spat coffee all over my monitor when I read that! Most casual genealogy folks will just go ahead and spend the $200/year on Ancestry and consider that their solution. Because it's easy, and it's done, and it's good enough.

 

The desktop software vendors really have to figure out how to make it easier for folks to do GOOD genealogy using the superior desktop programs, but to also make that data available to themselves when they are mobile, and to others via the web.

[GlenB]

Sorry, I strongly disagree with the request.

 

Often enough I am working in a space that has no web connectivity. Maybe it will be suitable for RM10 when every atom on the planet has IPv6 connectivity to a pervasive web.

 

Also I want more personal control over my data than to trust ANY web service to be the primary repository of my data. I may choose to make part of my data live on the web when I think it's ready, or to backup my data files to web services as my 2nd or 3rd level backup. But I don't want any software company's inadvertent misconfiguration of their servers to put my data at risk of loss or exposure. I'm no Luddite nor techno-neophyte - I worked systems design and software and support for 35 years, generally solving the problems before they manifested, and I know well what we can and cannot do and the costs and pitfalls of those choices.

 

For me, being able to backup or upload or publish or use on the go the data as in the current RM design is entirely suitable across the multiple platforms and environments I use.

 

If RM went web-only I'd move to another software package.

[Jerry Bryan]

I've already said my piece about wanting to stay on the desktop, and I won't repeat myself about that. But there is another interesting issue where I would be supportive if there were a good way to do it, and the other interesting issue almost certainly would involve "the Web" or "the cloud" or something of that nature. Namely, I think it would be nice to have better collaboration tools, where multiple people could work on the same RM database either "at the same time" in a safe fashion, or even "one at a time" in a safe and easily synced fashion.

 

I don't think it's a very easy problem to solve, and it would be easy to put together a fairly poor solution that would be a disaster. I think it would be really hard to put together a really good solution. I can safely give my opinion now that RM's ShareMerge isn't such a solution, RM's TreeShare isn't such a solution, RM's RM-to-Go isn't such a solution, and RM's use of the FamilySearch API isn't such a solution.

 

I guess I might picture something that's sort of like TreeShare except that sync would be automatic, no data would be lost between the RM desktop and the cloud storage in either direction, and multiple users would be prevented from stepping on each other. The last condition would be the hardest to fulfill. For example, what would happen if two different users started editing the same person at the same time? Or the same item in the source list? Or the same item in the place list? And what about global changes to things like the place list? And what about media files that might not have identical file strings on each user's computer? It's a very non-trivial problem.

 

Jerry

 

[Trebor22]

I've already said my piece about wanting to stay on the desktop, and I won't repeat myself about that. But there is another interesting issue where I would be supportive if there were a good way to do it, and the other interesting issue almost certainly would involve "the Web" or "the cloud" or something of that nature. Namely, I think it would be nice to have better collaboration tools, where multiple people could work on the same RM database either "at the same time" in a safe fashion, or even "one at a time" in a safe and easily synced fashion.

 

I don't think it's a very easy problem to solve, and it would be easy to put together a fairly poor solution that would be a disaster. I think it would be really hard to put together a really good solution. I can safely give my opinion now that RM's ShareMerge isn't such a solution, RM's TreeShare isn't such a solution, RM's RM-to-Go isn't such a solution, and RM's use of the FamilySearch API isn't such a solution.

 

I guess I might picture something that's sort of like TreeShare except that sync would be automatic, no data would be lost between the RM desktop and the cloud storage in either direction, and multiple users would be prevented from stepping on each other. The last condition would be the hardest to fulfill. For example, what would happen if two different users started editing the same person at the same time? Or the same item in the source list? Or the same item in the place list? And what about global changes to things like the place list? And what about media files that might not have identical file strings on each user's computer? It's a very non-trivial problem.

 

Jerry

 

I have mentioned on this forum before that I wonder if RM's current 'publish to the web' on RM servers only is a step towards an online vision? I prefer to stay with the desktop for the main part. However Jerry's suggestions for collaboration options via the web would be a welcome addition, assuming it worked well!  I guess the long wait for RM8 will keep our imaginations occupied in the mean time:-)

[Jerry Bryan]

I have mentioned on this forum before that I wonder if RM's current 'publish to the web' on RM servers only is a step towards an online vision? 

 

I have wondered the same thing about both MyRootsMagic and the mobile app. Both have the same look and feel and both include your entire RMGC file on the server or mobile device rather than including something like HTML files or XML files or anything of that sort. Because of the inclusion of the RMGC file, I have therefore wondered if the design was a step towards collaboration (in terms of MyRootsMagic) or a step towards a mobile edit capability (in terms of the mobile app). We shall see.

 

I have written before that the use of the RMGC file in this way gives me some heartburn. It makes my data too big for MyRootsMagic, it potentially makes my all data about living people subject to theft on the MyRootsMagic server,  and it potentially exposes all my RM data to somebody else if my iPhone is lost or stolen. For simply displaying data, I actually prefer the more old school approach of extracting HTML files or XML files or the like and extracting only selected people - only those not living, for example, or only those well researched, for example.

 

Jerry

[Nettie]

I do not want web based software of any kind for any software, no matter whether it is the route of the future or not.  I do not trust web servers to stay in  place and if changes then re do them.  Many  of us, retirees, are short on paying options.  If that is the future will keep using the old revisions.  I agree with Jerry about security issues also. 

 

Nettie

[mjashby]

 

I guess I might picture something that's sort of like TreeShare except that sync would be automatic, no data would be lost between the RM desktop and the cloud storage in either direction, and multiple users would be prevented from stepping on each other. The last condition would be the hardest to fulfill. For example, what would happen if two different users started editing the same person at the same time? Or the same item in the source list? Or the same item in the place list? And what about global changes to things like the place list? And what about media files that might not have identical file strings on each user's computer? It's a very non-trivial problem.

 

Jerry

 

 

Do you mean something like: https://www.syniumso...tree-sync-share ?

 

As RootsMagic isn't (yet) competing with native MacOS Apps it's presumably O.K. providing the above link, purely as an example of an existing working system, not as a software recommendation.  Perhaps interesting that that Desktop application also uses SQLite as its database software so it's clearly a possibility to develop a method of live file sharing and synchronisation via online/cloud storage, although all 'sharers' do have to use MacOS/iOS software from the same developer so it is also a software lock-in.

 

Mervyn

[koornalla]

Hi everyone,

 

The subject that I raised about everything online seems to have generated plenty of discussion about security, lack of universal internet access as well as a belief that an online RM could not possibly provide the same level of functionality.

 

Regarding internet security I hope that those that question the integrity of internet security do not have bank accounts that can be accessed online or do bill paying transactions online, or join up for any genealogical pay sites or any other sites that keep your profile and credit card details online. I just hope you did not pay for RM online.

 

One would also question the motives of hackers to want to infiltrate genealogical sites when there are more lucrative targets in cyberspace. WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER!!!

 

Very strong and effective tools can be used to encrypt data flow between a client (you) and a website as well as tools that only allow certain computers that you nominate to access your data. There are proven notification methods to let you know when a computer you have not nominated tries to access your online account. I am really only touching the surface on what tools can be employed to safely protect your data. Sites can even be certified by an independent body that they are using the best possible tools to protect your data.

 

On the subject of internet access, in Australia, we almost have (with a few notable exceptions) universal access to internet either by broadband or wifi. I know all the major countries around the world a moving very quickly to provide universal  internet access.

 

On the last topic of functionality, I would not even suggest a complete online solution until full equivalent functionality was available online.

 

I know what I am saying is not popular but it is the way things are moving. We have to, at least, have the discussion.

 

Please, please treat me gently!!

 

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[Trebor22]

While interested in your comments and comparisons with other sectors like banking (where  I enjoy the protection of the UK's FCS, is there any protection for my data?)

I am not sure you have listed any real advantages to moving my hard researched data online, only reasons why it might be done. Once surrendered what protection would I have that RM wouldn't seek to charge a per month or per Mb fee? What would happened if I did not pay, deletion?  If RM went bust would the administrators be contacting me to return my data or would they just send the servers off to auction?

I disagree with your idea but that's life :-)  perhaps the best option would be if both routes were available but personally  I would need a lot more convincing to move my research online :-)

[koornalla]

To answer the post regarding advantages of having your data online I can say they are are significant. You get your data out to millions of people. Genealogy is supposed to leave a legacy for others. With data online you give immediate exposure of your data for others to view as well as them providing you with additional data. Online data also opens up the possibility of collaboration with others. Online data allows you to work on your tree on any device and anywhere you might be at the time. I hope this helps with explaining the gather advantages of online data.

Also a number of people have commented that they fell safer with their data on their own computer rather than online. If you are connected to the internet you are just another computer on the internet like the online web server that you fear. In fact you are probably more vulnerable (but admittedly less visible) on your home computer.

I hope this post clarifies things.


Way me Thurley

[bdunn]

Why not both? I have a lot of apps that do that. Sorry developers - you hate me now. :-)

[John_of_Ross_County]

Koornalla says, "You get your data out to millions of people."

 

However, there are some of us who want to share with a handful of relatives and not let millions know what is in my file..

[Less]

I saw this post and IMMEDIATELY thought of this thread.

https://www.geneamus...e-maker-is.html

 

It seems the guys that took over the FTM project have a vision for what I am looking for, and it seems to be what Wayne would be happy about as well. Online storage and sync of your family tree - like the Dropbox concept, or the way Zotero works. Update the data whenever and wherever you are, using whatever tool you have to hand, and that data is synced with your other devices.

 

I do hope that the rest of the genealogy software vendors catch on to this idea.