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#1 RDHansen

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:47 AM

I am trying to confirm, in Rootsmagic 7 are exact copies,not just thumbnails, stored in the Media Folder upon saving when  the save media box is checked?  In looking at the webnars it says thumbnails and I know there were produced earlier than version 7.  Thanks in advance for your time consideration.  RDHansen



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:28 AM

RM only stores thumbnails itself. For the actual media files, it only stores links to wherever the files are located in Windows or on a Mac.

 

I may be failing to remember something in RM, but where is the media box in RM to which you refer?

 

Jerry



#3 RDHansen

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:59 AM

Thanks Jerry for clarifying the media issue.  Sure wish it saved a full copy, even though I know it would be a duplicate set of files. The meda box I was refering to is located in the backup request.  When I exit RM it asks if you want to back up the file and when you say yes, a new screen is displayed and located to the right side is a box to check if you want to back up media files.  This I always check just to be sure.  Maybe overkill I don't know but just trying to be cautious. 

RDHansen



#4 zhangrau

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 01:35 PM

I think some RM users like having the option to include media fies in their RM backup. Others, like me, never use that option.

 

I have over 25,000 media files linked to my RM database, using about 50 GB of storage space on my hard drive. I have those media files organized into over 400 subfolders.

 

A backup without media takes about 300 MB, and just under 25 seconds. I've never actually tested a backup including my 50 GB of media files, but I suspect that it would take several minutes.

 

More importantly, when RM collects the media files for backup, it creates a single folder within the ZIP archive. That means I would lose my 400+ subfolders and organization.

 

I maintain a separate portable hard drive to which I periodically copy all of my media files. That gives me security against a complete computer failure, as well as allowing me to use the much-faster no-media-files backup.

 

Each RM user must decide which backup scheme works best for them.



#5 TomH

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:25 PM

Sure wish it saved a full copy, even though I know it would be a duplicate set of files. The meda box I was refering to is located in the backup request.  When I exit RM it asks if you want to back up the file and when you say yes, a new screen is displayed and located to the right side is a box to check if you want to back up media files.  This I always check just to be sure.  Maybe overkill 

Yes, overkill. The media files are compressed along with the database into a single backup file with the extension .rmgb in your Backups folder as set under Tools > Program Options. Within the backup file, the folder structure of the media files is collapsed or consolidated into a single folder. If you restore from this backup file, the original folder structure is forgotten. 

 

Better to have system backup procedures outside RM to ensure that all of your important files and folder structures are backed up in a way that they can be fully restored. Use RM's Backup without media frequently so that you have the ability to undo database changes while keeping your media folder structure intact. Your RM backups will be much faster than with media thus encouraging you to do them.  


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#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 04:55 PM

I think that both zhangrau and TomH said most of this already. Your RM database does not contain your media files. It just contains links to your media files. A backup of your RM database can OPTIONALLY contain all your media files - the actual media files, not just links. When you mentioned a media box being checked, I thought you were talking about your RM database rather than an RM backup file, which is why I couldn't figure out where the check box was.

 

An RM backup file has an extension of RMGB and it actually is a ZIP file in disguise. Indeed, if you rename the RMGB file to be ZIP you can see all the files inside it with any Windows zip file viewer. The files within the zip file will include your RM database plus all the media files. Of course, I'm not recommending renaming your RMGB file to ZIP, and doing so will mean that RM cannot itself do a restore. I just mention such renaming to explain how the RMGB file really works behind the scenes.

 

The fact that an RM backup and restore with media files destroys the subfolder structure of the media files means that the RM backup and restore with media feature does not meet my needs. I backup my media files outside of RM. Also (and as zhangrau  said), the RM backup and restore with media feature is really slow. With a database the size of zhangrau's, I think that a backup with media could easily take hours or days instead of just minutes.

 

I think RM's backup and restore with media feature is only acceptable for RM databases with a small number of media files, and even then only if you don't manage your media files with a subfolder structure.

 

Jerry

 

 



#7 RDHansen

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 08:44 PM

Thank you both for your explanation.  I will still have to work through the fact that everything is saved within one rmgb file. In setting up the file system one is instructed to create three different files; one data file, one multimedia file, and one back up file.  If in doing this, I guess it would have been my understanding that the media was then stored within its own file, not just one big file under rmgb.  I am not a computer person and I do not know SQLite so I guess I am at a disadvantage trying to understand how all this filing system works.  I have never, to my knowledge,  had a previous program save a single file and have it stored broken down into various separate files.  Still have a lot to learn if I want to enjoy this process.  I just hope that one day what ever I put in I will be able to retrieve.

RDHansen



#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:00 PM

Maybe we are giving you too much information. :)   An RMGB file is one big file, and that's the way it looks to Windows. You don't have to look under the covers to see what's inside. If you use RM to restore an RMGB file, then RM will restore your RM database and all of your media files from the one big RMGB file. Your media files will be restored as "Windows files" and will not be inside your RM database after the restore. Rather, they will be pointed to by your RM database, just like they were before you did the backup. Your media files will have the same names, same sizes, and the same content as before. They just won't be in the same subfolder structure as before.

 

Jerry



#9 TomH

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:01 PM

Like many who are not strongly computer literate, you conflate "file" with "folder". In the context of a filing cabinet, think of these relationships to computer storage:

 

document, photograph, piece of paper = file

manila folder, divider = folder (a computer folder can have many files and also subfolders with many files and also subfolders of subfolders with....)

drawer = drive

cabinet = computer case

 

There is no analogy for the RootsMagic backup file or a ZIP file. It's a file of files and folders that can be restored or expanded into the many files and folders it contains.

 

RootsMagic recommends you have separate folders for data, media, backups within which you can have many data files and subfolders, many media files and subfolders, many backup files ... 


Edited by TomH, 27 November 2018 - 12:34 PM.

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#10 RDHansen

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:41 AM

Thanks to everyone for taking time to resolve my confusion over the file format used in RM.  Yes, as a limited computer person it does tend to get confusing.  More advanced study needed.  Thanks again...………...RDH



#11 Rick Landrum

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 09:50 AM

I think some RM users like having the option to include media fies in their RM backup. Others, like me, never use that option.

 

I have over 25,000 media files linked to my RM database, using about 50 GB of storage space on my hard drive. I have those media files organized into over 400 subfolders.

 

A backup without media takes about 300 MB, and just under 25 seconds. I've never actually tested a backup including my 50 GB of media files, but I suspect that it would take several minutes.

 

More importantly, when RM collects the media files for backup, it creates a single folder within the ZIP archive. That means I would lose my 400+ subfolders and organization.

 

I maintain a separate portable hard drive to which I periodically copy all of my media files. That gives me security against a complete computer failure, as well as allowing me to use the much-faster no-media-files backup.

 

Each RM user must decide which backup scheme works best for them.

zhangrau,

Like many folks posting to this forum regarding media, and how to manage/backup media files, I am starting to struggle with this some myself. While I don't have as many media files as you, I stil have a lot. Previously, I was saving my media files in a sub-folder under my RM data base folder. The folder is now quite large, so I too do not use the the "RM" media backup. I just back up my media folder, and my RM backups, as part of my regular PC HD backup to an external HD. I am also considering creating a second periodic back up in case both my PC and my external were to fail. Maybe that's over kill, but probably not based on past experiences.

 

I am interested in knowing why you create media sub folders? What are the categories you use? I am considering using Windows "file tagging" instead. Any thoughts? 

 

Also, since I began using Ancestry Tree Share I am finding that my media folder is filling up with files with the Ancestry numeric file names. I am having to either rename or tag each new media file so that I can find it later. This is very time consuming. Renaming also requires changing the file properties in my RM tree. If I file tag them I would not have to rename them. Any suggestions on how to deal with this mess?

 

Any thoughts/ suggestions appreciated

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#12 zhangrau

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 10:43 AM

Rick,

 

Perhaps some of you would call me old-school, and that's just fine with me.

 

I use my subscriptions to Ancestry.com and Newspapers.com and GenealogyBank.com as essential Repositories of data and images.

 

I do NOT have an online tree with Ancestry nor FamilySearch, so I never see any Web Hints. I'm quite accustomed to doing my own searches.

 

I rename every image and PDF during the download process, and place the new file into my appropriate subfolder. Often, I open those media files in Photoshop and/or Paint for additional edits. Then I go back to RM and tag those files to a Master Source, Citation, Place, Person and/or Fact. During that step I assign a Caption and Description to each media file.

 

File > Properties currently shows 25.7K multimedia files and 160.3K multimedia links. So, each media file has approx. 6-1/4 links. I can update the Caption and Description from any one of those links, and it takes effect for every related link. That's very helpful when I detect misspellings or other errors of omission.

 

Here's the current top-level organization of my media files. Note that a bunch of these top-level folders include subfolders. For example, there is a separate Census subfolder for each census year from 1681 to 1956.

 

media-subfolders-20181216.png



#13 Rick Landrum

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 11:33 AM

zhangrau,

Thanks for the quick response and the list. I think we are on the same page, but you left out the "magic pill" that makes the care and maintenance of media files fast and easy.  :)  :)  Just kidding. I'm thinking sub folders may be easier to navigate than Windows file tags.

 

Appreciate the tips

 

Rick


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#14 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 11:55 AM

My approach to media management is very similar to zhangrau's. I don't have as many media files or as many media categories as he does, but the concept is exactly the same. Also, for each media category I have a user defined source template and for each media file I make a Master Source using the appropriate source template, being that I'm an extreme source splitter.

 

Well, sometimes a Master Source might be linked to more than one media file, as when there are three images that make up a single marriage record. But it's still one Master Source per marriage record. I used to make these kinds of multi-image records into a multi-image TIF file so that there was only one file for the marriage records that are three images, but multi-image TIF files don't play well with a lot of software including Web browsers. Which is to so, a lot of software will only recognize the first image in a multi-image TIF file.

 

There are some very expert RM users who report using what I will call content management software, where the metadata about the images is kept in a database managed by the content management software and only the content management software really knows the name and location of the file. Such an approach can be very powerful, because such software can include all manner of tagging and searching capabilities that exceed what you can do just with naming conventions and sub-folders. Maybe I'm old school or just a simple country boy or something, but I worry about separating the metadata from the file in that manner. I would rather have the files separated into sub-folders I understand and named with names I understand. And I really don't like the one big folder and meaningless file name approach you get when you download images from ancestry.com with TreeShare. So I download images from ancestry.com manually and organize them manually.

 

Jerry



#15 Rick Landrum

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 03:13 PM

My approach to media management is very similar to zhangrau's. I don't have as many media files or as many media categories as he does, but the concept is exactly the same. Also, for each media category I have a user defined source template and for each media file I make a Master Source using the appropriate source template, being that I'm an extreme source splitter.

 

Well, sometimes a Master Source might be linked to more than one media file, as when there are three images that make up a single marriage record. But it's still one Master Source per marriage record. I used to make these kinds of multi-image records into a multi-image TIF file so that there was only one file for the marriage records that are three images, but multi-image TIF files don't play well with a lot of software including Web browsers. Which is to so, a lot of software will only recognize the first image in a multi-image TIF file.

 

There are some very expert RM users who report using what I will call content management software, where the metadata about the images is kept in a database managed by the content management software and only the content management software really knows the name and location of the file. Such an approach can be very powerful, because such software can include all manner of tagging and searching capabilities that exceed what you can do just with naming conventions and sub-folders. Maybe I'm old school or just a simple country boy or something, but I worry about separating the metadata from the file in that manner. I would rather have the files separated into sub-folders I understand and named with names I understand. And I really don't like the one big folder and meaningless file name approach you get when you download images from ancestry.com with TreeShare. So I download images from ancestry.com manually and organize them manually.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

I agree with all you have said, but my problem is developing a method of dealing with the hundreds (probably thousands) of media files that I have already downloaded from Ancestry using Tree Share and Web Hints, before I understood the scope of the issues this causes when unidentifiable media file names are posted into my RM media directory. I have changed how I am managing these going forward, but I need to fix what is already in my folder. I am currently working these manually, one at a time, and it is taking for ever. I am using Windows file tags to identify each type of media file (GM, BC, DC, etc) to try and not have to change the file names, which leads to having to change the media properties in RM as well. "If only I had known then what I know now"  :wacko:  

Rick


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#16 TomH

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 03:37 PM

Rick, we all ran into this issue with the advent of TreeShare. I came up with this batch renaming process: 2017-07-05 TreeShare - Rename Cryptic Filenames for Citation Media


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#17 Vyger

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 06:08 PM

Not trying to add anything except my own practice, like zhangrau I have a large media collection but not quite that large, also organized into several sub folders and I never use the backup with Media option.

 

I do, however, mirror my media collection with a free sync program to several external drives, one being off site as I don't pay for enough cloud storage to store the files there.


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#18 Rick Landrum

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 08:19 PM

Rick, we all ran into this issue with the advent of TreeShare. I came up with this batch renaming process: 2017-07-05 TreeShare - Rename Cryptic Filenames for Citation Media

Thanks Tom,

This sounds like what I need. I'll give it a try on a copy of my data base. I missed this somehow in searching the forum.

Appreciate the link.  :)

Rick


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#19 TomH

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 11:07 PM

Make sure you backup your media files and structure and your database before embarking down this path.


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#20 Rick Landrum

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Posted 17 December 2018 - 09:33 AM

Make sure you backup your media files and structure and your database before embarking down this path.

Got it - I'll back up and copy everything before I try it.

Just to be clear, I'm assuming you could run this as often as you wanted/needed to in order to change future media file downloads from TreeShare. Seems this would need to be done on an ongoing basis, right?

 

Thanks again

Rick


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