Jump to content


Photo

Place List Editing- Show Record(s) Associated


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 searchingfamilyhistory

searchingfamilyhistory

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:05 AM

I did a search on this topic and could not find anything, so I'm inquiring as to whether or not there is a feature (or to place an enhancement request, if not) when editing items in the Place List.
 
When I create a list of Places, I would like to see to which record(s) the particular Place is associated before I make a change.  When I select a Place, I know I get Place Details, but not record(s) to which it is associated.
 
Right now I know I can do a Find Anywhere for an address and it will give me snippets of a record in which it is used.  Although one cannot click on the snippet and be taken to the record either only to the Note or the Place details.
 
Am I missing how to do this?  Or is it just not a feature?
 
Thanks,
Example:https://photos.app.g...pQSybjssV3gzet9



#2 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3519 posts

Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:25 AM

Click the Print button while a Place is highlighted within the Place List. There is not a Print button for Place Details. Instead, you have to click the Print button for the owning Place, and the report will include all the Place Details under that Place.

 

Jerry



#3 searchingfamilyhistory

searchingfamilyhistory

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 28 October 2018 - 11:01 AM

Thank you.  That was certainly not intuitive.



#4 JCK74656

JCK74656

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 28 October 2018 - 07:26 PM

I did a search on this topic and could not find anything, so I'm inquiring as to whether or not there is a feature (or to place an enhancement request, if not) when editing items in the Place List.
 
When I create a list of Places, I would like to see to which record(s) the particular Place is associated before I make a change.  When I select a Place, I know I get Place Details, but not record(s) to which it is associated.
 
Right now I know I can do a Find Anywhere for an address and it will give me snippets of a record in which it is used.  Although one cannot click on the snippet and be taken to the record either only to the Note or the Place details.
 
Am I missing how to do this?  Or is it just not a feature?
 
Thanks,
Example:https://photos.app.g...pQSybjssV3gzet9

 

I find this yet ANOTHER big shortcoming of Rootsmagic, a basic requirement imo and something both Family Tree Maker and Legacy provide and have provided for many years.

 

Even with the antiquated inactive Print solution Jerry Bryan pointed to there is still no way to do the same with Place Details, I simply do not understand why?

 

I have been doing a lot of reading on this subject and requests for this functionality have gone back many years and well before the current version, so why have Rootsmagic not responded?

 

I'm not too deeply into RM7 proprietary features although I have invested in Place Details but unless the next version overcomes the various current shortcomings and negatives I will be looking elsewhere for my future research platform.



#5 jagwinn

jagwinn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:15 PM

Click the Print button while a Place is highlighted within the Place List. There is not a Print button for Place Details. Instead, you have to click the Print button for the owning Place, and the report will include all the Place Details under that Place.

 

Jerry

I thank you Jerry! I have often wanted to see this but never thought to ask about it....a great hint! Thanks!



#6 jagwinn

jagwinn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:48 AM

Jerry, I am so glad you gave the hint of the PRINT button in LISTS, PLACE. I then started looking elsewhere and discovered that the same report can be generated for the LIST, FACTS!! Now I am trying every PRINT button I find and creating wonderful reports to better examine my database. Many small mistakes have appeared to offer themselves to correction and it all started with your PRINT suggestion. 

This would make a very good tutorial in the HELP section!!

 

John



#7 treehstn

treehstn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 22 August 2019 - 02:34 PM

I followed the instructions here and it worked to an extent.... What I'd like is the ability to get a report of everyone using a search in the place field such as a county name.  I may have 50 different places/towns/cities that are all in Columbia County.  Using the method above I'd have to do the print on every one of those in the list of places.  Is there a way to search for just one word such as Columbia in the place field and have it list out all of the people in all of those places in one report?   

 

Thank you!



#8 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3519 posts

Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:57 PM

I followed the instructions here and it worked to an extent.... What I'd like is the ability to get a report of everyone using a search in the place field such as a county name.  I may have 50 different places/towns/cities that are all in Columbia County.  Using the method above I'd have to do the print on every one of those in the list of places.  Is there a way to search for just one word such as Columbia in the place field and have it list out all of the people in all of those places in one report?   

 

Thank you!

 

For this one, make a group using the criterion: Any Fact>Place>Contains>Columbia County. Having made the group, look at the group in People View. Or run and Individual report using the members of the group as the individuals to print. Or make a Custom Report containing the columns you wish to see and run the Custom Report against the group. Since you want to "list out", you probably want to run an actual report you can print on paper, and you probably want just one line of data for each person. The Custom Report is the best way to see this effect, but the other two ways I mentioned are a little easier to do.

 

Jerry



#9 Vyger

Vyger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3403 posts

Posted 26 August 2019 - 06:33 AM

I followed the instructions here and it worked to an extent.... What I'd like is the ability to get a report of everyone using a search in the place field such as a county name.  I may have 50 different places/towns/cities that are all in Columbia County.  Using the method above I'd have to do the print on every one of those in the list of places.  Is there a way to search for just one word such as Columbia in the place field and have it list out all of the people in all of those places in one report?   

 

Thank you!

 

Or you could use a piece if genealogy software which provides a reversed hierarchical Place view on screen for easy geographic grouping and editing, displays the events associated with any highlighted place on screen along with the location position on an embedded map.

 

For me personally this is one VERY old ceiling Rootsmagic must smash in dramatic form, the way the program works with Places and Place Details at present is just to restrictive for me to continue into the future. These enhancements have been wished for over the last 10 years whilst being available in competitor software so sadly the time for talking, workarounds and faith in the developer delivering customer needs is long gone for me. What damaged faith I do have left is all pinned on RM8 but it is too thin to accept "we can look at that in the future" promises.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#10 kbens0n

kbens0n

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3448 posts

Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:09 AM

I followed the instructions here and it worked to an extent.... What I'd like is the ability to get a report of everyone using a search in the place field such as a county name.  I may have 50 different places/towns/cities that are all in Columbia County.  Using the method above I'd have to do the print on every one of those in the list of places.  Is there a way to search for just one word such as Columbia in the place field and have it list out all of the people in all of those places in one report?

 

You can create a Group (sidebar on the left) that meets the criteria:

 

Groups -> Add, edit, or delete groups ->

Named groups -> New ->

Select People -> Mark group -> Select people by data fields ->

Search for information -> <Any fact> <place> <contains> Columbia County OR <Any fact> <place> <contains> , Columbia,

Click <OK> or <Enter>

Click <OK> or <Enter>

Enter name for the group

Click <OK> or <Enter>

 

However, this only "groups" current individuals in the database. If you subsequently add more people to your database you'd need to re-run the criteria to include more recent folks, too. Groups can be used in Custom reports and in several other program features. Color coding is another similar path to "marking" individuals using criteria and then utilizing the RM program features that support color coding.


---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#11 Less

Less

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:49 AM

 

For me personally this is one VERY old ceiling Rootsmagic must smash in dramatic form, the way the program works with Places and Place Details at present is just to restrictive for me to continue into the future. 

 

Never in a million years did I imagine that the  very weak Place management of Rootsmagic would still be an issue 10 years after I converted from TMG. So often these days I find myself longing for some capability that I had in TMG that RM just doesn't do. Places were really really well thought out in TMG. 

 

It really was 10 years ago (Aug 14, 2009) that I bought RM4, because TMG wasn't forward thinking enough. I'm still glad I made the change, and will hold off a full re-evaluation until v8, which will probably be sometime in November, since that's when the prior releases have come out. Rather sad that RM has gotten itself in this bind, where the next version has to be super dramatic improvement.

 

There's a lot to be said for the annual subscription model. Vendor gets predictable regular income, users get continuous improvements - evolution not revolution. Oh well, that's off topic, sorry.

 

PRINT is the magic button that I, too, recently discovered. It's not as great as clicking "where used" and getting a live list that you can click to get to the event that used the place (TMG had that), but it's way better than exiting out all the way to the report menu.


 Less
Houston, TX
desktop: Family Tree Edge -> TMG -> RM

web: Wordpress + TNG + ZenPhoto 


#12 Vyger

Vyger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3403 posts

Posted 26 August 2019 - 01:41 PM

 

Never in a million years did I imagine that the  very weak Place management of Rootsmagic would still be an issue 10 years after I converted from TMG. So often these days I find myself longing for some capability that I had in TMG that RM just doesn't do. Places were really really well thought out in TMG. 

 

It really was 10 years ago (Aug 14, 2009) that I bought RM4, because TMG wasn't forward thinking enough. I'm still glad I made the change, and will hold off a full re-evaluation until v8, which will probably be sometime in November, since that's when the prior releases have come out. Rather sad that RM has gotten itself in this bind, where the next version has to be super dramatic improvement.

 

There's a lot to be said for the annual subscription model. Vendor gets predictable regular income, users get continuous improvements - evolution not revolution. Oh well, that's off topic, sorry.

 

PRINT is the magic button that I, too, recently discovered. It's not as great as clicking "where used" and getting a live list that you can click to get to the event that used the place (TMG had that), but it's way better than exiting out all the way to the report menu.

 

I have wished for the MISSING Print button to be added to the Place Details screen for almost all of that 10 years but to no avail. I see users repeatedly asking "how to" with similar needs and Rootsmagic simply seem to ignore that simple need and fix. The link below shows an old post of mine where Renee Zamora seems to dismiss my wish in suggesting to use the Print Events Near a Place. The problem with that is that every Place Detail and the associations are Printed for the Place regardless of how tight you keep the selection so in Belfast I will get several hundred items listed on a flat and non interactive report, I find this almost prehistoric, and it was confirmed as being added to the dreaded enhancement request list.

 

http://forums.rootsm...ton-please-add/

 

In light of this openly declared lack of user interaction where it seems Rootsmagic are happy to constantly suggest workarounds rather than plugging the glaring gaps in the software V7 may well be my last version of using the software. I have been with the developer for over 20 years and I can tell you the early days were not like that, very interactive with users, very proactive in fixing things to user requirements, I am at a loss for where it all went wrong.

 

I am using Rootsmagic side by side with another package, which is also probably due an upgrade, and not only can I geocode my Places by dragging them to an embedded map, I can also see all the events which occured there, restrict these within a date span if preferred and move directly to making edits to any of those individuals. I have great hopes for RM8 but I must chose the most productive way forward for my research at the end of this year and if that means switching then that will be the decision. I have always been very active on these forums and have invested much time in sharing my views on where Rootsmagic could improve and improve it's position in the market, however there is an old saying which very much comes to mind "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

 

place-details-print.png


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#13 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3519 posts

Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:10 PM

 

Places were really really well thought out in TMG.

 

If I understand correctly, TMG supported the breaking up of a place into up to 8 levels, and each level could be a separate sentence template variable. Among other things, doing it that way would enable you to enter a country for every place but not have the country print in reports if printing the country is not indicated. For example, most of my reports are 100% places in the USA with readers 100% in the USA, and including USA at the end of every place name in such a report is really like the sound of fingernails on a chalk board. I'm not sure how many of RM's other problems with place names would be solved if the model for handling place names was closer to the TMG model.

 

Jerry



#14 John_of_Ross_County

John_of_Ross_County

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 661 posts

Posted 27 August 2019 - 09:50 AM

This is a method I have used for cleanup of my place list.

 

1] Click on List

2]Then Print

3] Select "Print all places in database"

3] Check the box [x]  "Reverse place names"

4] Then click "Generate reports"

 

Then look at the report for nearly identical place names.  Merge the wrong spelling of a place  into the correct spelling  to eliminate spelling errors.

 

Evaluate the listing for missing items such as county names.  I use DeLorme Atlas to find missing county names.  But it does not help with large cities crossing into adjacent counties.



#15 Less

Less

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:18 AM

 

If I understand correctly, TMG supported the breaking up of a place into up to 8 levels, and each level could be a separate sentence template variable. 

 

Jerry

Yes, TMG really did handle places in a logical and flexible manner.

 

There were 8 place levels (9?), and the default level names were the familiar country, state, etc. But you could create new name schemes and save it, then apply that scheme to any place you want (or change the default) so that when you looked at a place in Louisiana, the L4/County field was labeled Parish. In sentences you could code for "L4" or "County" with lots of flexibility. 

 

For place maintenance and cleanup it was even MORE excellent.

 

The Place view was a spreadsheet view, you could easily shift an item from one level to the next - if "Houston" was in your County field, just alt-left to move it to city. You could change the sort order to sort on whatever level you want, so you could see all the items with Texas as the state and clean them up, merge them if necessary, etc. You could click to see the events that used that place, each place had a DATE RANGE that you could view and sort by, and edit. There really were so many wonderful things about place management.

 

Since TMG was my first ever non-casual Genealogy program, that's what I expected them all to be like.


 Less
Houston, TX
desktop: Family Tree Edge -> TMG -> RM

web: Wordpress + TNG + ZenPhoto 


#16 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3519 posts

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:09 PM

Yes, TMG really did handle places in a logical and flexible manner.

 

Never is a long time, but I really never expect RM to support places in the manner of TMG. I never expect any other genealogy software to do so, either. The reason is that I think that existing place name standards are illogical and inflexible, and yet genealogy software seems bound up by trying to adapt to and support those very illogical  and inflexible standards.

 

Just to be clear, RM doesn't force you do adopt any particular place name standard. You can enter places into RM in any way you wish. But RM's County Check and Gazetteer are based on a very illogical and inflexible standard. In addition, RM's user interface for place names doesn't have enough levels, it doesn't have a spreadsheet view, it doesn't have a reverse view (largest to smallest), Place Details don't export well if at all to 3rd party genealogy software, and there isn't even a Print button for Place Details.

 

RM8 clearly will have some significant improvements in its user interface. It will be interesting to see to what RM8's user interface improvements extend to place management.

 

Jerry