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Sometimes RM thinks there are no FS Sources

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#1 GlenB

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 05:34 PM

I have mentioned in other communications that FS Person Tools sometimes thinks there are no Sources when in fact there are some, maybe even many.

 

After every copy of one Source from FS to RM it seems to requery FS and regenerate the lists on both sides. That's mostly an annoying wait time and I can't think what potential problem that helps to avoid. As long as you're still working on the same person, I think we just hope that no one in FS is adding/deleting the sources for that person and the list originally queried remains. If someone were editing it, we might miss a Source (small error, low probability versus the amount of time wasted waiting for the requery). Suggestion: only requery FS if the RM user changed, added or deleted an FS source, otherwise work with the last list you retrieved from FS.

 

It has happened to me several times that the requery brings back zero results. If there were 22 before it didn't just gain or lose one or two, it got nothing. I wait, and wait, 15 or 30 or 60 seconds for the list to repopulate but nothing. It's exceedingly improbable that this is true and that something deleted all 22 Sources in the last few seconds. If I exit from Person Tools and go back to the RM Explorer and find that same person and click on the icon to start Person Tools from there it finds all 22 of them as expected and I can add the few I had not yet finished adding. Happens lots.

The second instance where I have seen this happen is not on a requery in the middle of moving sources from FS to RM - it is on the initial callup for a person I selected in the FS Person Tools from the list where RM tells me that FS has new information for some number of people. I was only able to prove this today (though long suspected) because some of the facts on a person were very specific and I wondered why there were no sources for them. So I jotted down the RINs, left Person Tools, went to RM Explorer, found those people and - lo and behold - there were sources, many sources, for these people. No idea why they didn't appear before. There were too many sources on several people for something in FS to have suddenly added them in the 10 seconds it took me to get back to that person and check again.

In this latter instance it happened for several people in a row, not all of whom were in the same family (so even less likely that some FS process or person was doing something to that same group at the same time). It is as though Person Tools gets "stuck" and no longer sees any Sources until I get out of it. If you can figure out what got stuck and fix that, then maybe an idea is to immediately requery anytime FS says no sources, or provide a button for the user to force a requery. That button might also be useful in the description above where I'm suggesting that you NOT automatically requery after every single copy of a source from FS to RM.



#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:28 PM

Suggestion: only requery FS if the RM user changed, added or deleted an FS source, otherwise work with the last list you retrieved from FS.

 

The only way FSPT can determine any changes were made in RM is to reload the page. 

 

If the sources are not reappearing after adding to RM then FamilySearch is not sending them to us at the moment. Open and close the FSPT screen to get them to reload. The only way to trigger a reload without resending data is to open the Ordinance tab and click on Edit Person button. That one will trigger a reload of the person's data after it is closed.  The "Edit RootsMagic person" button on the Share data tab won't do that. 

 

The other option is to visit someone else in the FSPT index and when you open the person again it will reload their data. 


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#3 GlenB

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 01:16 PM

Can we try this one again please Renee? I think I got too complicated in my post, made too many suggestions, you focused on one and I think we didn't read the same thing on that one. So .... reset. I apologize for being long-winded, but I hope it helps.

 

Currently running version 7.5.9.0

 

This happens several times during an hour of updating RM from FS using the FSPT screen for people with changes.

 

I am updating RM by adding a few facts from FS and a bunch of sources as well. I add the facts first, then I go to Sources to transfer over the ones I want. Let's say there are 22 Sources in FS when I start, but none yet in RM, or maybe only a few. I follow the normal clicking to scroll down and select a Source and apply it to an RM fact. Then the left side and right side of the screen refresh - I don't know if they reload, but they go blank for a moment and then the lists redisplay. That's the normal process and it repeats until I'm done. And it all gets done eventually in the majority of cases.

 

But in several cases an hour the sides of the screen go blank and never redisplay anything. I wait, I'm patient, but nothing. So I go back to the Share Data tab which populates as expected. Usually I Edit RM Person to see if that helps. Nothing seems to bring back the Sources which were there moments ago. At some point in all of this I notice that the Sources tab is now labelled Sources(0) which surely is not correct, but it would explain why no Sources appear on the tab! And I think it gets stuck there. If I ignore this and move on to the next person they start out with Sources(0).

 

If I leave FSPT and open up the person in the regular RM views, click on the FS icon to the right of the name, it displays the Share Data tab fully populated. I go to the Sources tab, which is now labeled Sources(22), and finish transferring over the Sources I wanted. So the Sources are there and FS is providing them but for some reason, RM did not see them or count them and acts as if they are not there.

 

At the risk of getting too complicated, I will continue, because I think it might help describe the problem.

 

Sometimes in FSPT looking at the people who have new information I select a person and the Share Data tab populates as expected. I look at the data and everything I have in RM agrees with what is in FS, all green, so look at the Sources tab and it is labeled Sources(0). I click on the Sources and, yup, nothing there on the FS side. So I wonder why RM thought there was new information?

 

Then, looking at the facts in the Share Data tab I see some pretty detailed facts - full dates and locations for more than just BMD. It occurs to me that there probably are sources for these facts that are just not being shown to me. I go back to the RM screens and click the FS icon and there it says Sources(8), showing me the 8 Sources which were not presented in the FSPT version of this same screen.

 

The commonality of these 2 scenarios is that the FSPT screens act as though there are no Sources when in fact there are. Whether it is RM getting lost or FS speaking in tongues is a detail for you to figure out. But there clearly IS some way for incorrect data to be presented and for the user to be unaware of that. Absent the discovery of a counting error or data over-write or misinterpreted status message, might I suggest a bit of a brute force way to at least detect the problem?

 

What if, when a person gets loaded into that FSPT screen you track the FSID and the # of sources off to the side somewhere. If you ever requery FS for sources (as it appears that you must be doing because if not you are simply zeroing the counter by mistake) and if the FSID matches but the # of sources does NOT, then you know something happened. Logging this could lead to understanding if it happens very often. At that point, flush all buffers and restart as if the person was just being selected for the first time from the list at the left and hope that clears it up. This might not be sufficient to solve the problem, so maybe it's just instrumenting the code to make diagnosis more effective.

 

Willing to discuss if this still seems not clear.



#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 02:33 PM

I understand and my suggestions don't change. RM can only receive what FamilySearch is sending. Having the Share Data screen fill could just be a cache. If it stops sending the sources then a refresh is the next step. Having a refresh button inside of the FSPT and not needing to visit a person to reload is on the enhancement list. 

 

This is very much like the recommendation we have for importing from FamilySearch. We tell people to import into a new blank database because even if FamilySearch flickers for a moment the connection can be lost and not resume. 


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#5 GlenB

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, I didn't realize that refresh button had been put in the enhancement list. It would certainly help!

 

I still think RM is mis-counting, or maybe mis-interpreting what FS says, or stepping on its own data at some point. But even if none of that is true, RM is at least not detecting that something untoward has happened and refreshing on its own. Still, I suppose leaving it for the user to detect a possible error and giving them a way to force the refresh at least slaps a good bandage on the wound.

 

I would have thought that if the number of Sources changes from one display of the data to the next (ie you showed Sources(22) last time and Sources(0) this time) then it's a fair bet that something got messed up and perhaps the refresh in that case could be automated before the Sources(0) is even presented to the user.



#6 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

The difficulty is there is no way for RM to know FamilySearch isn't sending the data. A refresh would be helpful. 


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#7 GlenB

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:48 PM

A refresh would be helpful for sure.

 

I'm not suggesting RM should detect that FS isn't sending data. I'm suggesting that RM could notice when FS sends a DIFFERENT amount of data to a repeated request. If a particular FSID gives you 22 sources on one request and the next time you make that request you get 0 sources then a refresh sounds like a good idea. No matter what comes in the next time, you have to assume it is correct and carry on. If 22 comes in then thank heavens you refreshed and cleanup whatever was confused - and the user never even knew it happened.



#8 Renee Zamora

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 07:39 AM

Confirming this has been reported to development. 


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