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Entering Place Info


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#1 JackG

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:27 PM

When entering place information (county, state,etc) for early dates, Rootsmagic often indicates that county/state didn't exist yet. Should I accept the program's data or override with current county/state?



#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:44 PM

The only time I will enter a current place name for a historical time frame is if I cannot determine where it was historically. If CountyCheck is giving a suggestion that I would go with that. 


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#3 JackG

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:02 PM

Thanks for quick reply Renee. Now for the rest of the story - if I have been doing this (overriding suggested time period data), is there a reasonable way to go back and adjust/check what the data should actually be for the time period?



#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:18 PM

I agree with Renee's suggestion and I also use historical place names. But be aware that for every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. Some/many experts recommend using modern place names to facilitate knowing where an event toook place with respect to modern reference points and to facilitate geocoding.

 

Historical vs. modern places names is a question without a perfect answer. Here's a good example of the problem, and probably everybody else who reads these forums can cite similar examples. I have marriages from the 1700's in my database that took place in a church in Greenbrier County, Virginia. The church is still standing, it has never been moved, and it is still used occasionally for weddings. I know its exact GPS coordinates. And guess what, the GPS coordinates are in Monroe County, West Virgina - different county and different state.

 

Jerry



#5 Vyger

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:12 AM

When entering place information (county, state,etc) for early dates, Rootsmagic often indicates that county/state didn't exist yet. Should I accept the program's data or override with current county/state?

 

Is it correct to say your ancestor was born 1500 in Boston, no because Boston didn't exist so it makes for bad reading in reports and elsewhere.

 

The only time I will enter a current place name for a historical time frame is if I cannot determine where it was historically. If CountyCheck is giving a suggestion that I would go with that. 

 

I agree with Renee and use the historical Place Name, most of my Irish research is on Parish level which has remained relatively the same for centuries and can be mapped.

 

I know its exact GPS coordinates. And guess what, the GPS coordinates are in Monroe County, West Virgina - different county and different state.

 

I say this often, but that pin in the map has not changed position (except for continental drift :) ), the administrative districts, historical place names etc. may have but the Church hasn't moved. Ancestry and the like don't do GPS but I would hope in the future more emphasis, proximity searching and possible duplicate identification is performed through a mathmatical calculation rather than users text which may be in several language variants.

 

Edit:

 

Almost like it was meant to be when resolving churches I came across a possible duplicate as a Place Detail which has come in under a different Master Place, should I resolve and merge, GPS says yes.

 

duplicate-church.png


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#6 Renee Zamora

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 11:51 AM

Use the CountyCheck report to find events with the incorrect historical place names for their time frame. 


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#7 Don Newcomb

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:00 PM

I think that even people who recommend using "historical" place names are not really all that consistent about it. I have yet to see anyone born in the CSA, Republic of Texas, Republic of West Florida, etc. I'm not sure I'd like to have five "New Orleans" in my place list: 1) French colony 2) Spanish colony 3) US Territory 4) US State 5) Confederate State.   



#8 TomH

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:20 PM

But I would like to see the historical place names in my reports, optionally supplemented by the current place name if the root name is different.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
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#9 Vyger

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:26 PM

IMO, there is at least room for one additional field in the PlaceTable for Historical Place Name with various options for reporting.

 

Mathmatically I place great emphasis on GPS for proximity searching and the other field which I believe already exists is LatLongExact which I would see being used as;

 

0 = Not Geocoded,

1 = Geocoded by RM (Auto),

2 = Geocoded by User (exact),

 

Many Gazetteer geocodings are far from the centre and very approximate so providing filtering on this existing field would allow users to hone there geocoding through research.

 

I wonder what the Rootsmagician had in mind when he incorporated this field in the PlaceTable?


"Never, for the sake of peace and quiet, deny your own experience or convictions"

— Dag Hammarskjold

 

Current user of Rootsmagic version 7.5.7.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 and Legacy 7.5 on Win 10

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:01 PM

I think that even people who recommend using "historical" place names are not really all that consistent about it. I have yet to see anyone born in the CSA, Republic of Texas, Republic of West Florida, etc. I'm not sure I'd like to have five "New Orleans" in my place list: 1) French colony 2) Spanish colony 3) US Territory 4) US State 5) Confederate State.   

 

Guilty as charged! :)

 

Except that I avoid most of the inconsistency by omitting the country field when it is clear from context, e.g., someone born in Orange County, Virginia in variously 1750 (British Colony), 1780 (United States of America), 1863 (Confederate States of America), and 1880 (United States of America). I list the place name for all these cases as Orange County, Virginia. With the country being implicit rather than explicit, there is no inconsistency. Of course, the boundaries of Orange County changed over time, but in the case of Orange County, Virginia the country field is implicit in the date of the event.

 

If there were a good standard whereby I could store the place name in one way and print a place name in reports another way, I would be much more inclined to be consistent and use the country field when storing the place name, including using a date appropriate country name.

 

Jerry

 

(By the way, England would not have accepted Orange County, Virginia, United States of America in 1780 and the United States of America would not have accepted Orange County, Virginia, Confederate States of America in 1863. So there can be some heavy duty politics in play here.)



#11 Vyger

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:15 AM

If there were a good standard whereby I could store the place name in one way and print a place name in reports another way, I would be much more inclined to be consistent and use the country field when storing the place name, including using a date appropriate country name.

 

Sadly also true of Names and encouraging the various codes and systems to achieve a desired reporting output. So easily overcome in the case of names by development facilitating the entry of a user desired text string to insert in reports where a forename or surname is blank.

 

In the case of Places I believe another Place field is needed and also some improvements to sentencing to improve reporting preferences, I populate my Place fields as 4, 3, 2 in respect of Std, Place, Abbrev but the county or not county argument will undoubedly rage on.


"Never, for the sake of peace and quiet, deny your own experience or convictions"

— Dag Hammarskjold

 

Current user of Rootsmagic version 7.5.7.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 and Legacy 7.5 on Win 10

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root