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source citation used by 2 people only updates to ancestry.com for 1


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#1 Ken12

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 10:04 PM

This really has me scratching my head to figure out what's not working. I have a scanned copy of the marriage license for a married pair of relatives so I created a new document on RM7 and  linked it the marriage record of both parties.  They already had a marriage recorded linked to a record I found on ancestry.com. When I did the tree share update of the relatives updated perfectly but the other one got two copies of the same record it already had one copy of.
 
So I deleted the spurious 2nd instance of the document on ancestry.com but I sitll can't get it to work.  I run TreeShare and it shows the trees are different.  If I hover over the source icon on the left side for RM it shows the 2 documents, on the right side for ancestry.com it shows 1.  I select the left box and select "update existing event on ancestry."   On the popup I select "sources" and on the left is shows "sources" and says "1 new source", on the right in the "destination" column the line goes from "1 source" to "2 sources" when I select the box.  I don't get to select which source is added in any way that I can see, but I expect it will give ancestry.com the source it does not have.
 
after clicking "ok" and the upload button, if I hover over the source icon on the left and right columns of TreeShare it shows they both now have the 2 sources.  Sounds good.  But when I go to that person's page on ancestry.com they have not added the 2nd source, instead it has duplicated the 1st source and when I select the marriage in the "facts" view it shows 2 purple lines, one to each copy of the same record.
 
Then I rerun TreeShare and if I go to that person it now shows 2 copies of the same document in the right column for ancestry.com
 
How do I get the 2nd source to upload via TreeShare?
 

#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:38 PM

You're going to find a mismatch with family or marriage facts on Ancestry. They have no such thing, everything is individual facts, RM needs to add it to both spouses. What you see is determined by which spouse you used to update the marriage.  


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#3 Ken12

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

Thank you Renee.   If I understand you correctly (I just started using the software this weekend  <_< )  for this to work I would need to make an individual marriage fact in RM7 for each person.  Is this even possible?  I'm guessing not, RM treats the marriage as a shared fact.



#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:00 PM

 I'm guessing not, RM treats the marriage as a shared fact.

 

RM treats marriage as a family fact, not as a shared fact. If you are not familiar with the concept, a family fact can seem a little strange.

 

Here's how it works. Suppose you have a new and empty database and suppose you starting typing information into the database rather than importing it from ancestry or some other similar location. The first person you type in will be person #1. The second person you type in will be person #2. Etc. These person numbers don't mean anything, but you can see them if you wish. If you share or move your data somewhere else such as to ancestry, these person numbers are pretty much lost. But within RM and behind the scenes in your RM database, these numbers are how RM keeps track of people.

 

Suppose Jane Smith is your person #3 and suppose Jane was born in 1852. There will be a fact in RM that says that person #3 was  born in 1852. Suppose Jane died in 1912. There will be a fact in RM that says that person #3 died in 1912. It's as simple as that. But this is the way the programming works behind the scenes. The way the information is presented to you on the RM screens is that Jane Smith was born in 1852 and died in 1912. You don't actually see the linking of facts records for person #3 to the person record for person #3.

 

Now let's suppose that you have typed 10 people into your database with person numbers #1 through #10 and suppose that person #5 is John Doe. None of the people are yet married so there are not yet any families in your database. But person #5 who is John Doe married person #3 who is Jane Smith and you enter the marriage fact for the couple and they become spouses in RM. RM creates a family for them and they become family #1. So family #1 consists of person #3 and person #5. The marriage fact is not for person #3 and it's not for person #5. Rather it's for family #1. The marriage fact is only in the database one time, namely for family #1. It's not in the database for person #3 nor for person #5 like the birth and death dates are.

 

But when you look at the Edit Person screen for Jane Smith and for John Doe, the marriage fact does not look any different than the birth and death fact. It looks like Jane Smith has a marriage fact of her own and it looks like John Doe has a marriage fact of his own. But they don't. There is only one marriage fact and it's linked to the family. Jane and John are linked to the same family. If you change the date or the place for the marriage fact, it's only changed once but it has the effect as if it it were changed twice, once for Jane and once for John.

 

If you are at all into GEDCOM, you will notice that RM works exactly like GEDCOM. GEDCOM has an INDI record (an individual record) for each person. Fact records such as BIRT (birth) and DEAT (death) are linked to INDI records. Fact records such as MARR (marriage) are linked in GEDCOM to FAM or FAMS records (family or family spouse).

 

This family record concept may seem like the same thing as shared facts, but it isn't. Shared facts are more for describing the midwife at a birth or a flower girl at a wedding or a pallbearer at a funeral. You share a birth fact with the midwife who delivered the baby, but the midwife wasn't born that day. You share a marriage fact with the flower girl at the wedding, but the flower girl wasn't married that day. You share a burial fact with a pallbearer at the funeral but the pallbearer wasn't buried that day.

 

Jerry



#5 Ken12

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 09:55 AM

thank you for the clear explanation  :)