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Reunion GEDCOM import question

GEDCOM import Reunion

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#21 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:45 AM

 

RM does not export or import its own built-in DNA fact. So there would be no way to import Reunion's DNA data into RM's built-in DNA fact.

 

An RM user could create their own custom fact whose purpose would be to contain DNA data. The DNA data would have to be stored free form in a note. RM would not know it was a DNA fact. To RM, the user's custom DNA fact would just be an arbitrary fact with a note. If Reunion's DNA data could be placed in this form in GEDCOM, it could be imported into RM.

 

Jerry

For my purposes, this would work.  Not for people who have taken a DNA test, but ancestors with whom I have a DNA match and we know the markers on which chromosomes (like for DNA Painter).  An arbitrary fact with a note would be ideal.  

Is there a place with instructions on how to create a custom DNA fact that I could follow for this?



#22 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:53 AM

I repeat that I know nothing about Reunion, so I'm curious about its treatment of facts vs. events. Is the distinction that events have a date and that facts do not? So occupation would be a fact and not an event? If so, then what about the distinction between "John Doe was a farmer" vs. "John Doe was a farmer from 1880 until his death in 1931."?

 

All RM facts have a date field, but the date field can be left blank. And even if the date field is filled in, it doesn't have to be included in sentences that are printed in narrative reports. Such sentences are controlled by sentence templates, and such sentence templates can include or not include a [Date] variable.

 

In addition to a date field, all RM facts include a sort date field. The sort date defaults to the date, but you can change the sort date to cause facts to be printed in an order of your choice. And for facts with no date, you can still fill in a sort date to cause them to be printed in an order of your choice.

 

Finally, all RM's facts are stored in RM's SQLite database in an EventTable instead of in a FactTable. This little irony is not visible to the RM user in the RM user interface. It's only visible to users with SQL skills who might look at RM's database with SQLite.

 

Jerry

 

 

For not knowing anything about Reunion, you're doing great!

As far as I can tell (without knowing RM better), yes the difference between events and facts in Reunion is the dates are assigned with events but not facts.  Occupation could be both or either.  If I know from, say, an obituary, that someone held this occupation (but I don't know dates), then I add it as a fact.  If I know, say, Bethuel was a Postmaster for these specific years, then I add that occupation as an event with the years noted.  John Doe "farmer" is a fact in Reunion.  "John Doe was a farmer from 1880 until his death in 1931" would be an occupation event (1880-1931).  

I haven't really got to the sentence templates yet, but they look interesting and powerful.


Ah ha! "Finally, all RM's facts are stored in RM's SQLite database in an EventTable instead of in a FactTable. This little irony is not visible to the RM user in the RM user interface. It's only visible to users with SQL skills who might look at RM's database with SQLite."
So even if I didn't have SQL skills, could I see what is there so I can use that to manipulate my Reunion export to better map it to RM?  Would that be the right way to go?



#23 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:44 AM

Teasing out the RM group and Reunion flag question.

 

In RM, could I search for all people in the database with a certain fact and then (what we call "mark" in Reunion) those people as a group (as we would mark them with a flag in Reunion).

 

If so (dunno), I wonder if I can manipulate my Reunion flags' GEDCOM tags in a way that RM would import them as facts.  That would work for me, I think.
 

Currently I have _CLER (clergy), _EARL (earliest ancestor), _IMGT (immigrant ancestor), _MILT (served in the military), and _SLVH (slave holder).  A quick spot check shows that RM did not import any of these as facts (or anything else I can find).

 

I also have a flag _PRIV (private) that tells Reunion not to include in reports.  It would be important for RM to understand this.



#24 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:47 AM

 

Is it possible in Reunion to sort of manually and individually add people to a group or are RM groups just search results?

 

In addition to search results, you can get a list of everybody in RM in alphabetical order and you can mark or unmark individuals in the list from the group. Even though it's a long list (60,000 people in my case), you can navigate it quickly. For example, you can type S to get to the S surnames, the M to get to the SM surnames, them I to get to the SMI surnames etc. and then you can type comma and start typing a first name to move quickly up and down the list. And you can just scroll the list up and down without doing any typing of names at all if you prefer that approach. There are little check boxes that you can check and uncheck manually to add or remove people from the group without have to provide a general rule.

 

And in addition to that, there is a feature called Quick Groups. You can right click a person on any RM screen and there will be a dropdown menu of "quick options". One of the "quick options" is Quick Groups where you can quickly add or remove a person from one or more groups.

 

Jerry



#25 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

 

In addition to search results, you can get a list of everybody in RM in alphabetical order and you can mark or unmark individuals in the list from the group. Even though it's a long list (60,000 people in my case), you can navigate it quickly. For example, you can type S to get to the S surnames, the M to get to the SM surnames, them I to get to the SMI surnames etc. and then you can type comma and start typing a first name to move quickly up and down the list. And you can just scroll the list up and down without doing any typing of names at all if you prefer that approach. There are little check boxes that you can check and uncheck manually to add or remove people from the group without have to provide a general rule.

 

And in addition to that, there is a feature called Quick Groups. You can right click a person on any RM screen and there will be a dropdown menu of "quick options". One of the "quick options" is Quick Groups where you can quickly add or remove a person from one or more groups.

 

Jerry

Jerry, are you this helpful to everyone or you just feel sorry for me?  :-)

Ok, searching individuals in an index and "marking" them is exactly the same in Reunion.  That marking is labeled.  We call that label a "flag" which is where I was trying to go.  How to transfer Reunion "flags" to RM groups. 

Also, and it might or might not be the same, but the search function for Reunion seems to be more robust: eg, I can search for an event or fact where the citation detail (memo field) "is not" [blank] which would pull up all individuals with, say, a notation in the memo/citation field of a burial (where I generally have the cemetery details noted).  I could then label those individuals with that search result with a flag.

I can manually add an existing or new flag to an individual as I'm editing them (earliest ancestor, discovering someone is an immigrant, etc).

So yeah, ideally, I would want to export "flags" from Reunion (which have custom GEDCOM tags) into "groups" in RM.



#26 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:01 PM

Searching in RM actually is quite robust - much more robust than I have indicated. However, the "marks" that I'm talking about do not become any kind of permanent flags that can be exported or imported in any way.

 

There are actually two versions of the searching in RM. The screen in RM is pretty much the same either way. The first version is purely searching. For example, you can search for anyone in your database whose first name is Elizabeth and who was born in Texas between 1850 and 1860. And you can add a lot more conditions than that to the same search. In the purely searching mode, it searches the database and stops on the first person it comes to who meets the criteria. You can do whatever you want with that person, and then you can go to the next person meeting the criteria where it stops again. And to the next person meeting the criteria where it stops again. Etc.

 

The second version is the marking/unmarking version. It's used for making groups, color coding, selecting people for GEDCOM export, and things like that. The screen is about the same and the criteria are about the same. Except that instead of searching and stopping, it searches and marks (or unmarks) everybody meeting the criteria without stopping. That's why it's easy to put thousands of people into a group very quickly and all in one go. But those marks do not become permanent flags associated with each person. The reason for both the marking and the unmarking is to support things like marking all the descendants of John Doe and then unmarking everyone born after 1950 to get all the descendants of John Doe who were born before 1950 or something like that. A lot of the really useful things you can do require both a marking an a subsequent unmarking.

 

But once the group is made, there are no flags anywhere to indicate group membership. All that exists is the lists of people in each group. If you are color coding, there are still no flags anywhere to indicate the color coding unless you consider the color coding itself to be a flag. A person can only have one color at a time. A person can't be red and blue at the same time. New RM users are forever asking what happens if descendants of John Doe are color coded red and descendants of William Smith are color coded blue and someone is descended from both. Are they color coded purple? No, they are color coded either red or blue, whichever happened last.

 

Jerry



#27 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:09 PM

Searching in RM actually is quite robust - much more robust than I have indicated. However, the "marks" that I'm talking about do not become any kind of permanent flags that can be exported or imported in any way.

 

There are actually two versions of the searching in RM. The screen in RM is pretty much the same either way. The first version is purely searching. For example, you can search for anyone in your database whose first name is Elizabeth and who was born in Texas between 1850 and 1860. And you can add a lot more conditions than that to the same search. In the purely searching mode, it searches the database and stops on the first person it comes to who meets the criteria. You can do whatever you want with that person, and then you can go to the next person meeting the criteria where it stops again. And to the next person meeting the criteria where it stops again. Etc.

 

The second version is the marking/unmarking version. It's used for making groups, color coding, selecting people for GEDCOM export, and things like that. The screen is about the same and the criteria are about the same. Except that instead of searching and stopping, it searches and marks (or unmarks) everybody meeting the criteria without stopping. That's why it's easy to put thousands of people into a group very quickly and all in one go. But those marks do not become permanent flags associated with each person. The reason for both the marking and the unmarking is to support things like marking all the descendants of John Doe and then unmarking everyone born after 1950 to get all the descendants of John Doe who were born before 1950 or something like that. A lot of the really useful things you can do require both a marking an a subsequent unmarking.

 

But once the group is made, there are no flags anywhere to indicate group membership. All that exists is the lists of people in each group. If you are color coding, there are still no flags anywhere to indicate the color coding unless you consider the color coding itself to be a flag. A person can only have one color at a time. A person can't be red and blue at the same time. New RM users are forever asking what happens if descendants of John Doe are color coded red and descendants of William Smith are color coded blue and someone is descended from both. Are they color coded purple? No, they are color coded either red or blue, whichever happened last.

 

Jerry


Hmmm, ok.

 

Marking and searching seem similar in both Reunion and RM then, the difference being in Reunion one can "flag" a group or search result list (or anything) to remember the marking.

On another note, I've been playing with the RM file (adding a few custom fields) and my Reunion file (to try to make the migration smoother).  I have a new and improved, as they say, Reunion GEDCOM. I'd like to keep the same RM database (with the custom fields, etc.) but delete all the people (or create a duplicate file without any people). I know how to do both in Reunion but not either one in RM.  Then I can try importing the new GEDCOM.



#28 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:25 PM

On another note, I've been playing with the RM file (adding a few custom fields) and my Reunion file (to try to make the migration smoother).  I have a new and improved, as they say, Reunion GEDCOM. I'd like to keep the same RM database (with the custom fields, etc.) but delete all the people (or create a duplicate file without any people). I know how to do both in Reunion but not either one in RM.  Then I can try importing the new GEDCOM.

 

Make a new and empty RM database. Then do a File->Import lists. There are a bunch of customizations you can bring into a database that way from another database without bringing in people from the other database. Choose just the customizations you want. Then do your GEDCOM import into your new and still empty (of people) database.

 

Jerry



#29 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:00 PM

Ok, took me two tries, but that worked.  Testing now to see what came through 



#30 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:48 PM

Ugh.  Very frustrated.  I've tried a couple of different things.  I really need to know what GEDCOM tags RM uses and how to edit them.

I was able to create new files and import list.  Thanks.  I was able to import Reunion GEDCOMs.  I tried a couple of times editing the tags in Reunion without any luck.  On another note, Heredis was able to import the exact same GEDCOM with no editing and map all custom events, custom facts, and flags.  All of this information was lost in RM.  

 

Nothing I want to work is working.  In Reunion, we have an event (fact with dates) for "land purchase" with the tag PURC.  I've tried importing it as PROP which worked (but loses the distinction I have in Reunion from land purchase, property and land sale).  PURC does not import and neither does _PURC even after I added a fact in RM for land purchase with the abbreviation PURC. Again, Heredis imported with no editing or trouble.



#31 Bob C

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:48 PM

Here is an extract of the Fact Type Type Table from RM7.5.5.0

 

Name Abbrev GedcomTag

Birth Birth BIRT

Death Death DEAT

Christen Chr CHR

Burial Burial BURI

Cremation Cremation CREM

Adoption Adoption ADOP

Baptism Baptism BAPM

Bar Mitzvah Bar Mitzvah BARM

Bas Mitzvah Bas Mitzvah BASM

Blessing Blessing BLES

Christen (adult) Chr (adult) CHRA

Confirmation Confirmation CONF

First communion First comm FCOM

Ordination Ordination ORDN

Naturalization Naturalization NATU

Emigration Emigration EMIG

Immigration Immigration IMMI

Census Census CENS

Probate Probate PROB

Will Will WILL

Graduation Graduation GRAD

Retirement Retirement RETI

Description Description DSCR

Education Education EDUC

Nationality Nationality NATI

Occupation Occupation OCCU

Property Property PROP

Religion Religion RELI

Residence Residence RESI

Soc Sec No SSN SSN

LDS Baptism LDS Bapt BAPL

LDS Endowment LDS Endow ENDL

LDS Seal to parents LDS SealPar SLGC

Ancestral File Number AFN AFN

Reference No Ref # REFN

Caste Caste CAST

Title (Nobility) Title TITL

LDS Confirmation LDS Conf CONL

LDS Initiatory LDS Init WAC

Marriage Marriage MARR

Annulment Annulment ANUL

Divorce Divorce DIV

Divorce filed Div. filed DIVF

Engagement Engagement ENGA

Marriage Bann Marr Bann MARB

Marriage Contract Marr Contract MARC

Marriage License Marr Lic MARL

Marriage Settlement Marr Settlement MARS

LDS Seal to spouse LDS SealSp SLGS

Residence (family) Residence (fam) RESI

Census (family) Census (fam) CENS

Degree Degree EVEN

Military Military EVEN

Mission Mission EVEN

Stillborn Stillborn EVEN

Illness Illness EVEN

Living Living EVEN

Election Elected EVEN

Excommunication Excomm EVEN

Namesake Namesake EVEN

Separation Separation EVEN

Alternate name Alt. Name EVEN

DNA test DNA _DNA

Miscellaneous Misc EVEN

Draft Registration Draft Registration EVEN

Obituary Obit EVEN

 

Draft Registration and Obituary are events that I created. All others come from RM.

 

AFAIK if a tag in a GED import does not match one of RM's it is put in in the .lst file because RM doesn't know what to do. Direct imports are another story because code has been written to handle another product's native files. This has not been done for Reunion.



#32 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:53 PM

Election came through with memo field and the GEDCOM tag _ELEC.

 

Doing a spot check, I don't think any sources came through. Is there a way to pull up a list of all sources (not the source template)?



#33 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:56 PM

Here is an extract of the Fact Type Type Table from RM7.5.5.0

 

Name Abbrev GedcomTag

Birth Birth BIRT

Death Death DEAT

Christen Chr CHR

Burial Burial BURI

Cremation Cremation CREM

Adoption Adoption ADOP

Baptism Baptism BAPM

Bar Mitzvah Bar Mitzvah BARM

Bas Mitzvah Bas Mitzvah BASM

Blessing Blessing BLES

Christen (adult) Chr (adult) CHRA

Confirmation Confirmation CONF

First communion First comm FCOM

Ordination Ordination ORDN

Naturalization Naturalization NATU

Emigration Emigration EMIG

Immigration Immigration IMMI

Census Census CENS

Probate Probate PROB

Will Will WILL

Graduation Graduation GRAD

Retirement Retirement RETI

Description Description DSCR

Education Education EDUC

Nationality Nationality NATI

Occupation Occupation OCCU

Property Property PROP

Religion Religion RELI

Residence Residence RESI

Soc Sec No SSN SSN

LDS Baptism LDS Bapt BAPL

LDS Endowment LDS Endow ENDL

LDS Seal to parents LDS SealPar SLGC

Ancestral File Number AFN AFN

Reference No Ref # REFN

Caste Caste CAST

Title (Nobility) Title TITL

LDS Confirmation LDS Conf CONL

LDS Initiatory LDS Init WAC

Marriage Marriage MARR

Annulment Annulment ANUL

Divorce Divorce DIV

Divorce filed Div. filed DIVF

Engagement Engagement ENGA

Marriage Bann Marr Bann MARB

Marriage Contract Marr Contract MARC

Marriage License Marr Lic MARL

Marriage Settlement Marr Settlement MARS

LDS Seal to spouse LDS SealSp SLGS

Residence (family) Residence (fam) RESI

Census (family) Census (fam) CENS

Degree Degree EVEN

Military Military EVEN

Mission Mission EVEN

Stillborn Stillborn EVEN

Illness Illness EVEN

Living Living EVEN

Election Elected EVEN

Excommunication Excomm EVEN

Namesake Namesake EVEN

Separation Separation EVEN

Alternate name Alt. Name EVEN

DNA test DNA _DNA

Miscellaneous Misc EVEN

Draft Registration Draft Registration EVEN

Obituary Obit EVEN

 

Draft Registration and Obituary are events that I created. All others come from RM.

 

AFAIK if a tag in a GED import does not match one of RM's it is put in in the .lst file because RM doesn't know what to do. Direct imports are another story because code has been written to handle another product's native files. This has not been done for Reunion.

 

 

Thank you!!!

Let me play with this.

Yes, I found what is missing in the .lst file.  Confirmed my frustration.



#34 Bob C

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:00 PM

Lists>source list>print>All Sources will list all sources and their citations. Your can check the print preview on the screen or send to a pdf for saving and reference



#35 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:21 PM

Grrr

 

_ELEC got mapped the way I want it as "Election" even without the tag "EVEN" (event).

_MILT got mapped as Military.

 

The standard GEDCOM tag CAUS (cause of death) is missing on your list, as I suspected, and is dropped--even though I created a custom fact for it with that abbreviation.

 

Description DSCR comes through properly after correcting Reunion's wrong default tag.

 

The other non-standard GEDCOM tags with an underscore before them (and tried those same ones without an underscore) just disappeared (.lst).

 

Why does RM list the marriage as a MISC event (fact) on the person's timeline?  It has to know the Fact is a marriage!

 

How can I add GEDCOM tags to new, non-standard facts?



#36 BradleyinDC

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:05 PM

Two steps forward, one step back.

 

Renee had the idea to use the Reunion GEDCOM file imported into Heredis then exported as a GEDCOM file into RM from Heredis.  That way it brought over all of the custom "events" as custom facts (with dates, memos/notes and sources), the "flags" from Reunion as custom facts in RM (no other info with flags), and additional notes in Reunion came over as custom facts in RM but without the notes themselves (sort of like how the flags came over as a marker).

 

Historical place names imported directly and perfectly from Reunion to RM, but via Heredis into RM they are there, but there are a lot of added blank fields.

 

From Reunion to RM directly, custom "events" that are standard facts in RM migrated perfectly.  Eg, _ELEC (election) in Reunion imported directly as the election fact in RM.  But via Heredis, it imported into RM as a new custom fact _ELEC.  

 

RM still has no cause of death as an independent field/fact.  CAUS has been a standard GEDCOM tag for decades.  I think the info transfers to the death note, but I have other information in the death note so I'm not sure how that worked.  



#37 BradleyinDC

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:59 PM

Looking at the Reunion GEDCOM to Heredis GEDCOM to RM file some more.

 

All three property "facts" came through.  In Reunion, I have "events" for Land Purchase (_PURC), Property (PROP), and Land Sale (_SALE) which, with the sentence narratives, gives a better picture (bought, owned, sold) rather than just saying he owned land as a fact on the date he sells it.  All of these work coming through Heredis.

The health/medical condition info didn't come through.  Not sure why or where it broke down yet.  (_MDCL)

Legatee did not come through with the generic tag ASSO so I'll try with the custom tag _LEGA.

 

RM does not seem to understand (directly or via Heredis) "bet" in the date field.  So someone born between 1770-1775 (best we can do, eg, through censuses, etc.) just has the date fields left completely blank which is not helpful at all.  About (abt), Before (bef) and After (aft), all seem to work fine. 

 

Suggestions?



#38 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:59 PM

RM supports "bet" for dates. Look at what RM puts in GEDCOM for "bet" dates and what Reunion puts in GEDCOM for "bet" dates and see what is different.

 

Jerry



#39 BradleyinDC

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:07 PM

RM supports "bet" for dates. Look at what RM puts in GEDCOM for "bet" dates and what Reunion puts in GEDCOM for "bet" dates and see what is different.

 

Jerry

Hmm, good idea.  I'll also see if they came though from Reunion to RM directly and in RM to Heredis directly or if it is a Heredis thing which is what I'm thinking now based on your comment.



#40 keithcstone

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:56 PM

I have Reunion, so you could show the portions of the GEDCOM that are in question we could tweak either end. There is also GEDitCOM II for the Mac that could allow you to alter the GEDCOM files. Yes, it's not free, but compared to the amount of time you might spend altering GEDCOMs on either end it may be worth it.