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Reunion GEDCOM import question

GEDCOM import Reunion

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#1 BradleyinDC

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

I've exported my Reunion GEDCOM and imported it into RM (Mac version) without too many problems, but is there a way to manipulate the import so that some of the things that didn't come through could be re-mapped properly.  Is there a Reunion specific set of instructions to transfer posted anywhere?

 

For example, for each person in Reunion I have a "research" note that seems to have disappeared.  Ideally, those could be tagged in a way that they transfer to RM's "research log." 

Is it possible to have more than one note for a person?  I have custom notes for _DNA, medical, military and biography narrative, and sometimes just an additional generic note.  These were all lost.  

 

The historically accurate place names all transferred (which is great).  The media gallery was, with some guidance, able to find everything.  I'm looking forward to linking linking more than one individual to a single event for cluster research unavailable in Reunion, and the source templates look great!  But that raises a question in my mind: how GEDCOM friendly are the sources for exchanging with cousins?  Is there anything I can do on my end to make them "better" for that?

 

The event memos came through fine, but not all of the facts (missing Cause of Death, standard CAUS GEDCOM, eg).  Is there a way to manipulate GEDOM tags in RM like there is in Reunion?  Not all event or fact sources links seem to have worked.  I'm happy to spend some time making tag changes or whatever to get things working right.  As it stands now, I'll stick with Reunion as my main program unless the native Mac RM version is coming soon.



#2 BradleyinDC

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:05 PM

Edit, I did find this link, but Reunion isn't listed.  <crying>

https://support.root...-other-programs

Is there a listed one that works similarly?  Could we get some Reunion guidance?



#3 BradleyinDC

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:23 PM

I don't know it if matters, but I'm running the current Mac OS High Sierra on an officially unsupported MacBook Pro with a patch (no problems with anything with the patch so far).  I'm using RM for Mac Version 7.0.1(is this the most recent one?), and the most current Reunion 12.0.  



#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 03:11 PM

I'm afraid I have no experience using Reunion or importing it. Hopeful a former user can shed more light on what they did. It is mainly going to determine how Reunion is exporting the data that is missing and how well it supported the GEDCOM standard. Then RM needs a place to receive it. If they were facts and fact notes they should come in. 


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#5 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

I'm afraid I have no experience using Reunion or importing it. Hopeful a former user can shed more light on what they did. It is mainly going to determine how Reunion is exporting the data that is missing and how well it supported the GEDCOM standard. Then RM needs a place to receive it. If they were facts and fact notes they should come in. 

Thanks, Reunion is sort of in a world unto itself, especially for GEDCOM issues.  That said, it's incredibly flexible.  I edited all of the GEDCOM tags for the person fields so that helped.  I'm happy to edit other tags in Reunion for export.  The places (I have lots of crazy historically accurate ones) and events all seemed to have come through ok.  My sources in Reunion, well, they need attention anyway (next project and one of the reasons I'm thinking of switching to RM).  The media files all worked (with guidance) including the content notes in the metadata which was huge.  

What tag should I use for my "research note" in Reunion so that it transfers to the "research log" in RM?

 

What fact type GEDCOM tag should I use for "military" which came through as an event but not a fact?

Where can I find a list of the GEDCOM tags that RM uses?  Is there a way to add new ones with GEDCOM tags so that I can facilitate a cleaner import?  Reunion has, in addition to property (PROP), land purchase and land sale which I would like to keep.

Reunion doesn't allow shared events with associations and roles (main reason I'm looking at RM).  How can I change what I have in Reunion so that they import correctly into RM?  Specifically godparents at a baptism, or witnesses at a wedding.

I'm sure I'll have more issues and questions as I go through my file...


 



#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:17 PM

  • RM will import most any properly formed GEDCOM fact, even if it doesn't already exist in RM. However, you will need to define sentence templates for such fact types after the import.
  • I'm not sure quite what you mean by military coming in as an event and not a fact. RM uses the term "fact" for all facts and events.
  • RM's research log is quite separate from RM's facts. It's hard to see how any "research log" type of data in Reunion could make it into RM's research log. If Reunion constructed the research log data into GEDCOM facts/events (probably using the EVEN tag), then the data could appear in RM as a fact without being completely lost in transfer.
  • It sounds like your "shared events" in Reunion are actually stored in Reunion as what would be unshared facts in RM. If so and if they are properly formed by Reunion in the exported GEDCOM, they will come into RM as standard, unshared facts. RM can create GEDCOM that will transfer shared facts to itself, but it's hard to conceive of Reunion being able to construct GEDCOM that would be understood by RM as shared facts.

Jerry



#7 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

 

  • RM will import most any properly formed GEDCOM fact, even if it doesn't already exist in RM. However, you will need to define sentence templates for such fact types after the import.
  • I'm not sure quite what you mean by military coming in as an event and not a fact. RM uses the term "fact" for all facts and events.
  • RM's research log is quite separate from RM's facts. It's hard to see how any "research log" type of data in Reunion could make it into RM's research log. If Reunion constructed the research log data into GEDCOM facts/events (probably using the EVEN tag), then the data could appear in RM as a fact without being completely lost in transfer.
  • It sounds like your "shared events" in Reunion are actually stored in Reunion as what would be unshared facts in RM. If so and if they are properly formed by Reunion in the exported GEDCOM, they will come into RM as standard, unshared facts. RM can create GEDCOM that will transfer shared facts to itself, but it's hard to conceive of Reunion being able to construct GEDCOM that would be understood by RM as shared facts.

Jerry

 

Reunion does not have shared events capability at all.  This is one of the reasons I'm looking to switch.  (except for marriages)

 

I have several different default notes in Reunion.  Only the first one gets imported.  The rest of the information is lost.  Is there a way to map the other notes into RM so the info isn't lost?

Fact and events, thanks, that helps.  Weird, but it helps.



#8 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:50 PM

In Reunion and Heredis, in the place list it shows the usage (which events/facts for which people have that place).  Does RM have that capability or am I just not finding it?

 

Is there a list of the GEDCOM tags that RM uses that I could use to manipulate my Reunion export?

 

Does RM use something different for CAUS (cause of death) or is it just missing?  If I added that as a custom fact, how do I add the GEDCOM tag so it would import properly?

What's the difference between "census" and "census family"?

What is the GEDCOM tag RM uses for "DNA test"?  Is there a note with this fact?  Same for "election" and "excommunication" and "illness" and "separation"  RM seems to use a lot of non-standard GEDOM tags but I can't see where I can see what they are.

The old "godparent" "legatee" and "witness" from previous GEDCOM standards aren't included?  Is there a work around? I'm still wrapping my head around shared facts (events). If there is, I'd like to add "bondsman" and "neighbor" as well.

How long can fact notes be?



#9 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 06:04 PM

Abbreviations for dates in facts (what were events in Reunion):

 

RM seems to understand bet (between) and abt (about) and bef (before) and aft (after) but not pr (probably) so someone's birth fact (formerly event) now is tacked on at the end after their burial.  Suggestions?



#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:03 PM

I have several different default notes in Reunion.  Only the first one gets imported.  The rest of the information is lost.  Is there a way to map the other notes into RM so the info isn't lost?

 

I have no idea what a "default note" is in Reunion, nor what it looks like in a GEDCOM exported by Reunion. Could you post an extract from a Reunion-produced GEDCOM file (not the whole file) showing the person (the INDI record, etc.) and "default notes" that RM does not import?

 

Jerry



#11 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:16 PM

 

I have no idea what a "default note" is in Reunion, nor what it looks like in a GEDCOM exported by Reunion. Could you post an extract from a Reunion-produced GEDCOM file (not the whole file) showing the person (the INDI record, etc.) and "default notes" that RM does not import?

 

Jerry

Thanks for your continued help with this!

The basic problem is the Reunion has more than one note (in addition to the custom ones I've added).  I only see a place in RM for one general note.  RM imports the first main note, then it doesn't have a place to put the others.  (there are citation details, fact memos, etc., that all seem to have come through ok).

If I changed all of the GEDCOM tags to NOTE would RM import more than one note?  Where would the additional ones go?

Similarly in Reunion we have "logs" that aren't attached to a specific person.  I have dozens of them.  I could just copy/paste them all to Pages (word) docs or whatever, but if there's a place for them in RM, let me know, that would be great.



#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:27 PM

What's the difference between "census" and "census family"?

 

Facts in RM can be individual facts or family facts. For the built-in fact types, most of them are individual facts (birth, death, burial, etc.). A few of the built-in fact types are family facts, and a better name for them in some ways would be spouse facts (marriage, divorce, etc.). Individual facts in RM become linked to INDI records in GEDCOM, and family facts become linked to FAM records in GEDCOM. The FAM mechanism in GEDCOM includes FAMS (family spouse) and FAMC (family child) tags. It's best to think of RM's family facts as being associated to the FAMS tag in GEDCOM (the spouses) and not being associated with the FAMC tag in GEDCOM (the children) at all.

 

You can define your own fact types, and you can define individual fact types or family fact types. After a new fact type is defined as individual or family, individual fact types can't be changed to family and family fact types cannot be changed to individual. This individual and family fact types have nothing to do with sharing of facts. For example, marriage is a family fact type, not an individual fact type that is shared between the two partners.

 

I don't think the RM developers expected anybody ever to use the "census family" fact type and I suspect it was included only because it's included in the GEDCOM standard. It definitely does not serve as a way to enter a census entry for entire family grouping one time and then to have that one data entry apply to the whole family including children. It's like a marriage fact in that respect. A marriage is important to the children who are the issue of that marriage, but it's not their fact. It's the parents' fact.

 

Census needs to be entered either as a totally different fact for each member of the family grouping, or else it needs to be entered as a single fact for the head of household and then to share that census fact with each of the other family members.

 

Shared facts need to be understood thoroughly before you start using them. They involve roles and only one person may have the role of "principle" (i.e. the "main" person for the fact). Everybody else sharing the fact has to have some other role. For example, a birth fact might sometimes be shared with the midwife who delivered the baby. That doesn't mean that the midwife was born the same day as the baby. It means that the midwife delivered the baby. So a birth sentence for John Doe might say "John Doe was born on 12 July 1852". The shared sentence for the same fact for the midwife might say "Sarah Smith was the midwife who delivered John Doe on 12 July 1852". So you can share the individual census fact for the head of household with the other family members who were enumerated in the census at the same time (and a lot of RM users do so), but you have to think carefully how you want such shared sentences to look in reports when they appear for the sharees. For example, the sentence template for the midwife sentence would be something like [ThisPerson] was the midwife who delivered [Person] on [Date]. [ThisPerson] is the sentence template variable for the sharer and [Person] is the sentence template variable for the sharee.

 

Jerry



#13 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:39 PM

Correct, RM only has one general note per person. It would not expect to see a GEDCOM that contains more than one general note per INDI tag. If Reunion is putting out more than one general note per person, the only way that RM could import them all would be if the general notes after the first one were converted into facts. I don't know if Reunion can do that or not, or if a program would have to be written to process the GEDCOM into something RM could understand. Well, the other way would be to combine Reunion's multiple general notes into one, larger general note.

 

Also, RM has one note for each fact (birth, death, marriage, etc.), so both individual facts and family facts can have a note. I don't think there is any exact technical limit on the size of any RM note (like 1000 characters or 32767 characters or anything like that). Obviously, something would break somewhere if you tried to put "billions and billions" of characters into a note, but any reasonable size should work.

 

On the other hand, RM facts (and not individuals) can also have a description field. It's sort of like a short note and it can be up to 100 characters. However, you are not warned if it goes over 100 characters. RM use to lose anything over 100 characters if a GEDCOM went from RM to RM. The behavior has been changed so that long description fields are moved into the note field on a GEDCOM transfer from RM to RM. I don't use Cause of Death, but I believe Cause of Death is stored in the Description field for the Death note.

 

If you define a new fact type, you can enable or not enable the description field for that fact type. Many built-in RM fact types have the description field enabled and many do not. For those that do not, you can enable it.

 

Jerry



#14 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:53 PM

That helps for some of the questions.  Just for reference for any future Reunion reader, as I understand what you're telling me, "family facts" would be analogous to the marriage panel on Reunion with marriage, children, notes and events for the couple under "family fields" in the preferences.

 

Shared facts in RM:

For example a will would have, eg, children that are bequeathed something.  I'd like to add LEGA back for these and tie them together.  Similarly witnesses for marriages and property, etc.; godparents for baptisms, etc.  The idea is to make use of cluster research.

What about GEDCOM tags?  Is there a place I can see the list RM uses?  I could then edit mine in Reunion easily enough.

 

Looking around in my program, I have added cause of death (CAUS) whenever I could (a cousin in working on a health/medical pedigree thing for the family).  I have a lot of them.  In Reunion it is a separate "fact" (not associated with a date).  In addition in Reunion, we have a "memo field" for events (facts in RM with dates associated with them).  I have some details in the "death memo" that RM includes as a "death note" but the causes of death seem to have disappeared.  

 

CAUS has been in the GEDCOM standard since at least version 3 consistently so I would think RM would have it.  Alternately, how would I add a fact to have a place to import it and add the GEDCOM tag?  

https://www.tamurajo...EDCOMTags.xhtml

(I don't see where "census family" is part of the GEDCOM standard)



#15 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 07:58 PM

Ok, to help with translations for future readers:  The "description field" in RM for facts up to 100 characters would be analogous to the "memo field" for events (individual or family) in Reunion.

EDIT: I should add that RM imports these memos into the appropriate description fact fields without any problems.



#16 BradleyinDC

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 10:07 PM

I have a non-GEDCOM standard "fact" in Reunion for medical (_MDLC) that did RM did not import as a fact (or anywhere that I can find).  Other GEDCOM standard Reunion facts (info without dates that count as events) were imported fine (religion, occupation).  Suggestions?

Going through my non-GEDCOM standard "events" and "facts" in Reunion:

 

Election (_ELEC) imported fine with note and source

 

Employment (_EMPL) I have set to export as EVEN which imported with note and source

 

Military (_MILT) imported fine.

 

Non-GEDCOM standard "flags" in Reunion (a type of fact, I guess) did not import: 

Earliest ancestor (_EARL), Clergy (_CLER), Slave holder (_SLVH)

(I have a flag for military, but I use _MILT for that flag and an event so I think just the Reunion "event" became a "fact" in RM but the Reunion flag did not.)

 

Thought: I think Reunion "flags" are like RM "groups" so is there a way to map them that way?

I created a "DNA note" in Reunion with the GEDCOM tag _DNA that I haven't used yet, but I could make it a fact I guess if that would work.  What is the way to get that mapped to RM's  "DNA test" fact?



#17 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:40 AM

Thought: I think Reunion "flags" are like RM "groups" so is there a way to map them that way?

 

 

I don't know what Reunion "flags" are. They may or may not provide a function that's similar to RM's "groups", but I very much doubt that they are implemented in a manner that is at all like RM's groups. Each person in RM has a record number. The first person you add to your database is person #1, the second person you add to your database is person #2, etc. A person's record number is never changed within a given RM database, and when a person is deleted from an RM database that person's record number is never re-used. If you export GEDCOM from an RM database and import it into a new and empty RM database, the record numbers can be (but do not have to be) retained. If you export GEDCOM from an RM database and import it into a non-empty RM database, the record numbers cannot be and are not retained. As an option, you can show the record number for each person on RM screens, but the numbers don't really mean anything.

 

With that as a background, an RM group is just a list of record numbers. If you have multiple groups, RM manages the programming details of the list of the record numbers for each group. For example, you can make a group that is all the descendants of John Doe and another group that is everybody born between 1905 and 1910 in Missouri. The ways to make groups are very powerful and are almost endless. But all that happens  behind the scenes is that RM takes the rule that you provide and converts it into a list of record numbers. It does not save the rule. If a group is made of all the descendants of John Doe and then you add a new descendant of John Doe to your database, the new person is not automatically added to the group.

 

RM's main screen has a main view that occupies most of the screen and a side panel view on the left side of the screen. Both the main view and the side panel view have a bunch of tabs that you can use to alter the contents of that part of the screen. For both the main view and the side panel view, there is one tab that can be used to list members of a group in that view. Also, there are a number of reports (and GEDCOM export) that as an option can be restricted just to members of a group. So RM's groups are a very powerful and useful tool. But in the bitter end, all they consist of is lists of record numbers, where very long lists can be generated very quickly by specifying rules.

 

RM's groups cannot be exported and imported via GEDCOM. If you use GEDCOM to make a new RM database, you have to re-establish any groups you want in the new database. The biggest reason for the GEDCOM restriction is that there are no "flags" or any other indication of group membership associated with the person record for each person. So there really is no possibility of importing anything from Reunion into RM as groups. The possibility that does exist would be to create groups in RM after the import is complete, with the group rules being based on data that is imported from Reunion somehow or other.

 

Jerry



#18 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:47 AM

I created a "DNA note" in Reunion with the GEDCOM tag _DNA that I haven't used yet, but I could make it a fact I guess if that would work.  What is the way to get that mapped to RM's  "DNA test" fact?

 

RM does not export or import its own built-in DNA fact. So there would be no way to import Reunion's DNA data into RM's built-in DNA fact.

 

An RM user could create their own custom fact whose purpose would be to contain DNA data. The DNA data would have to be stored free form in a note. RM would not know it was a DNA fact. To RM, the user's custom DNA fact would just be an arbitrary fact with a note. If Reunion's DNA data could be placed in this form in GEDCOM, it could be imported into RM.

 

Jerry



#19 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:58 AM

I repeat that I know nothing about Reunion, so I'm curious about its treatment of facts vs. events. Is the distinction that events have a date and that facts do not? So occupation would be a fact and not an event? If so, then what about the distinction between "John Doe was a farmer" vs. "John Doe was a farmer from 1880 until his death in 1931."?

 

All RM facts have a date field, but the date field can be left blank. And even if the date field is filled in, it doesn't have to be included in sentences that are printed in narrative reports. Such sentences are controlled by sentence templates, and such sentence templates can include or not include a [Date] variable.

 

In addition to a date field, all RM facts include a sort date field. The sort date defaults to the date, but you can change the sort date to cause facts to be printed in an order of your choice. And for facts with no date, you can still fill in a sort date to cause them to be printed in an order of your choice.

 

Finally, all RM's facts are stored in RM's SQLite database in an EventTable instead of in a FactTable. This little irony is not visible to the RM user in the RM user interface. It's only visible to users with SQL skills who might look at RM's database with SQLite.

 

Jerry

 



#20 BradleyinDC

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:42 AM

 

I don't know what Reunion "flags" are. They may or may not provide a function that's similar to RM's "groups", but I very much doubt that they are implemented in a manner that is at all like RM's groups. Each person in RM has a record number. The first person you add to your database is person #1, the second person you add to your database is person #2, etc. A person's record number is never changed within a given RM database, and when a person is deleted from an RM database that person's record number is never re-used. If you export GEDCOM from an RM database and import it into a new and empty RM database, the record numbers can be (but do not have to be) retained. If you export GEDCOM from an RM database and import it into a non-empty RM database, the record numbers cannot be and are not retained. As an option, you can show the record number for each person on RM screens, but the numbers don't really mean anything.

 

With that as a background, an RM group is just a list of record numbers. If you have multiple groups, RM manages the programming details of the list of the record numbers for each group. For example, you can make a group that is all the descendants of John Doe and another group that is everybody born between 1905 and 1910 in Missouri. The ways to make groups are very powerful and are almost endless. But all that happens  behind the scenes is that RM takes the rule that you provide and converts it into a list of record numbers. It does not save the rule. If a group is made of all the descendants of John Doe and then you add a new descendant of John Doe to your database, the new person is not automatically added to the group.

 

RM's main screen has a main view that occupies most of the screen and a side panel view on the left side of the screen. Both the main view and the side panel view have a bunch of tabs that you can use to alter the contents of that part of the screen. For both the main view and the side panel view, there is one tab that can be used to list members of a group in that view. Also, there are a number of reports (and GEDCOM export) that as an option can be restricted just to members of a group. So RM's groups are a very powerful and useful tool. But in the bitter end, all they consist of is lists of record numbers, where very long lists can be generated very quickly by specifying rules.

 

RM's groups cannot be exported and imported via GEDCOM. If you use GEDCOM to make a new RM database, you have to re-establish any groups you want in the new database. The biggest reason for the GEDCOM restriction is that there are no "flags" or any other indication of group membership associated with the person record for each person. So there really is no possibility of importing anything from Reunion into RM as groups. The possibility that does exist would be to create groups in RM after the import is complete, with the group rules being based on data that is imported from Reunion somehow or other.

 

Jerry

Thanks again.

 

Yes, it seems to confirm my thought that Reunion "flags" work the same are RM groups, I think.  In Reunion, one can run a search (eg, descendants of John Doe or people in MO from 1905-1910) and then mark with a "flag" all of the people in that search result.  Similarly (and how I mostly use them), one can just create custom flags for things so that one can search for them that wouldn't otherwise be a RM fact (eg slave holders, earliest ancestor, immigrant ancestor).

Is it possible in Reunion to sort of manually and individually add people to a group or are RM groups just search results?