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Replace Ancestry Tree After RM Review

Ancestry Update After RM

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:15 PM

Seeking Advice - 

 

Question regarding replacing Ancestry tree after review and update of RM tree.

 

I am a primary RM user. I use Ancestry mainly as a research resource. My first priority is to update my RM tree and edit and correct my records there.

 

I used my RM tree to upload to Ancestry and create a "private" tree there. In theory, the two trees should have been synchronized at that point. 

 

My immediate goal is to complete a full review of my RM tree against available data in Ancestry.

 

I have been using RM WebHints for Ancestry to identify and add additional facts beyond what I already have in my RM tree. I edit the data in RM and then I use TreeShare to sync back to Ancestry. This is where I have run into issues. There are numerous "quirks", differences between the two data bases, and apparent bugs, that make this part of the process very difficult and time consuming. Most of these have been discussed in length in this forum. (I realize that improvements in the new tools will continue to be made as time goes on).

 

After several months of working with the new tools, I am wondering if there may be a better alternative (at least for now). I am considering changing to the following method.

 

I plan to basically follow the steps outlined above, except I will stop syncing back to Ancestry. (my Ancestry tree is private). After I have completed the review of my RM tree, I will then use it to create a new tree in Ancestry, and delete the old Ancestry tree. Once again, the two trees should then be synced, and the Ancestry tree would be updated all at one time. This seems like it would be easier and faster than trying to sync the two trees as you go. I plan to then share the new Ancestry tree with family. 

 

Once the new Ancestry tree has been created, then I would use WebHints and TreeShare to keep the two data bases synced going forward.

 

One question I have is, what happens to the Ancestry WebHints already resolved if I create a new tree in Ancestry? Will the syncing of the two trees prevent the triggering of new hints?

 

I would appreciate any thoughts, pros-cons, anyone may have on this idea before I switch.

 

Thanks

Rick

 

 

 


RickL


#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:54 PM

I'm only lightly using TreeShare because of its numerous problems. I'm certainly not sharing anything from ancestry back to RM via TreeShare. And I'm basically using your strategy of periodically deleting my old ancestry tree and making a new one from RM. The WebHint approvals are stored in the old ancestry tree and therefore are lost whenever you delete the old ancestry tree and make a new one. The same WebHints will be generated again, but you will have to approve them again if you want to have them marked as approved.

 

Jerry



#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:14 AM

OK, that's good to hear that it is a viable alternative.

 

I was thinking though, that once the new Ancestry tree is created, from my edited RM tree, that Ancestry should see the facts and events in the new tree, and would not offer a new hint because the data is already loaded in the new Ancestry tree. If that's not how it works, then it's OK.  It should be relatively quick work to accept the new hints in RM's WebHints, provided they are already loaded in my RM tree. That is basically what I do now when I see an Ancestry hint for something that I had loaded to RM prior to WebHints and TreeShare.

 

Thanks for the input

Rick


RickL


#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:15 PM

Suppose you have never had an ancestry tree at all and suppose you use TreeShare for the very first time to upload your RM tree to RM. Suppose you have a death fact for somebody and suppose that long ago you found a death certificate for that death fact in some sort of state archives. So you have a citation for the death fact and you have an image of the death certificated linked to the citation. Suppose ancestry has a copy of the same death certificate. ancestry will create a WebHint for you, even though you already have the same document. You then approve the WebHint but you take no action about downloading the image from ancestry because you already have the image. Indeed, suppose you do not use TreeShare at all to bring things down from ancestry to RM.

 

We make note of the fact that the WebHint is still there after you approve it. Before you approve it, it's yellow. After you approve it, it's white (or clear, if you prefer). But the WebHint is still there either way. And whether the WebHint is yellow or white, you can still click on the WebHint to see ancestry's copy of the death certificate.

 

Unlink your RM database from ancestry and delete the tree from ancestry. The death certificate is still linked into RM as before. The difference is that there is no longer a WebHint, neither yellow nor white, because WebHints for ancestry require that your RM database be linked to your tree at ancestry.

 

Finally, use TreeShare for a second time to upload your RM database to ancestry - which is to say, to a new tree at ancestry. The WebHint for the death certificate will appear again. But its approval was lost when you unlinked your RM database from ancestry. Therefore, the WebHint will be yellow. If you want it to turn white, you have to approve it again.

 

Jerry

 



#5 Rick Landrum

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:46 PM

OK, got it.

I plan to use only RM webHints and stop using TreeShare (for now). I can use the "view on line" feature to see the fact abstract and media, if any, in Ancestry. The media will come across, using WebHints, in the source record, but the abstract does not. I usually copy then paste that into my RM source details tab
If I continue to do this until say I have 100% checked my RM Tree against Ancestry, then unlink my Ancestry Tree and create a new Ancestry Tree, the worst that will happen is that Ancestry will create new hints for my RM Tree.
The decision of whether or not to check the hints against what I already have in my RM Tree, using WebHints, can be made at that time, and would depend on whether or not I want to actually share my Ancestry Tree.

Works for me!! Lot's better, and faster, than what I have been doing.

Thanks for the insights,

Rick

RickL


#6 TomH

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:04 PM

I'm betwixt my RM database and my Ancestry Tree that predate TreeShare and were never 'synced'. Probably the worst place to be. The AMT is great for growing an evidence-based based tree but lousy for analysis and reporting. The RM database is a tortoise by comparison but produces desired outputs that AMT cannot. So I've been dabbling with TreeShare compare and update in both directions. Also, I've used SQLite to gain some understanding of how TreeShare works.

An important (to me) finding is that an Ancestry Source that I bring over from AMT to RM via TreeShare gets an absolute reference in the LinkAncestryTable that is independent of the AMT. For as long as that link is supported, that source will not become a Hint for that person;this is regardless of the Source having been offered as a Hint in the first place or added from unHinted searches.

IIRC, disconnecting the RM database from the AMT deletes these links. The subsequent upload to a new AMT then results in these TreeShared Ancestry sources becoming Other Sources in the AMT. As a consequence, Hints for these Ancestrt sources are generated all over again - that's a major pain.

So I came up with a custom Disconnect that would preserve the Ancestry Sources through a TreeShare download or update to the RM database, a Disconnect, and then an upload to a new AMT. See http://sqlitetoolsfo...pact#Disconnectbut preserve Ancestry Sources links for next Upload

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#7 Rick Landrum

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:00 AM

Tom,
Thank you for the info and link. I believe this would be something to do after I have finished my RM review and when I am ready to break the link and create a new Ancestry Tree.
The whole issue for me boils down to trying to continue the functionality of the Ancestry WebHints after recreating and linking a new Ancestry tree for use on going.

I'm still not completely clear on why, if the RM tree and the Ancestry tree are synchronized, and a fact/source/or media are existing in the Ancestry Tree, would Ancestry re-create hints for something that is already in Ancestry??
Doesn't Ancestry create hints for the Ancestry tree first and then share the same ones with RM, for possible hits that are not seen in the Ancestry tree?

Maybe it's just me being dense.

Thanks again
Rick

RickL


#8 TomH

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:40 AM

Yes, Ancestry generates hints for each person in any Ancestry Tree for Ancestry Sources that are not already attached to that person. If you TreeShare download an AMT or update add a source from the AMT through TreeShare, the source created in RM is linked to the Ancestry Source by a record in RM's LinkAncestryTable. When you DISCONNECT the TreeShared database from Ancestry, those links are flushed. When you then upload the RM database to a new Ancestry Tree, there is no link to the Ancestry Sources from those RM sources originally derived from Ancestry. So they all become, in the AMT, "Other Sources" for that person because Ancestry has no way to relink them to its own databases of sources. Thus, when it generates hints for that person, it will offer up Ancestry sources as if the person had none at all.

 

Moreover, as Jerry has described, all those Hints that you rejected in the original AMT will also be regenerated for this new AMT. 


Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#9 Rick Landrum

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:44 PM

OK, got it.

Hate to say but best thing, for me at least, may be to just use Ancestry WebHints to update my RM tree and forget about updating my Ancestry tree, or creating a new one. By keeping the old Ancestry tree all the hint status would stay in tact.

(as stated previously, my Ancestry tree is private and I'm not sharing it with family now anyway)
Rick

RickL