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Media not "sticking" to a fact


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#1 Megang66

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:36 PM

I have a .jpg file, saved from newspapers.com, which, when I try to attach it to a fact in my database, will not show up. This is what I've done:

-click on camera column at relevant fact

-click add new media

-click image, then disk

-click on image, then open, then ok.

- It shows up in the media album. Great.

-I press ok to close the media album, and there's no check mark in the camera column. When I click on the column, there is no media in the media album.

 

At first, I thought it might be an issue with my custom fact, which had been imported from Ancestry. But I recreated the fact in RM, and the file still wouldn't attach. 

I tried other files (from newspaper.com, and from other sources), and they attach, and there is a check mark in the camera column, and it does show up in the media album.

 

So why will this one file not attach????? Properties show a .jpg file, 4.13MB, created Nov 1, 2017.

 

I am mystified. Any thoughts?

TIA

Megan



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 05:59 PM

Is it possible you are trying to add in the same file a second time? If so, it won't stick. If it's already there, you have to add it the second time from the media gallery instead of from disk.

 

If you are trying to add the same file a second (or third or fourth time, etc.), another option is to go into the media gallery and tag the file to any additional places where it needs to be attached.

 

Jerry



#3 Renee Zamora

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:58 AM

Is that media already attached in another location to the same person?

 

Was the media downloaded through the Ancestry API using WebHints or TreeShare to that other location?

 

If it was a WebHint was it a Photo hint or an image connected to a historical record?


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#4 zhangrau

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

I disagree with Jerry. I only tag images by choosing new, image, from disk - I never use the Media Gallery.

 

Why? Because I have lots (over 22K) of images linked to my RM database, and the Media Gallery is just too awkward to use with a collection that large.

 

I created a new test individual and attached the same graphic, all by using the new, image, from file method, to four different facts, For good measure, I also attached the image to the person's main Media Album, making it the primary photo for this test person.

 

No problem.

 

I would try opening the file in a simple editor like Paint, then re-saving it, to be certain that the internal graphic format matches the *.jpg extension.

 

RM_image-tag-multiple-facts_Untitled.png



#5 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:32 PM

I will rerun my tests, but in the mean time I found a most curious result that I was intending to report.

 

As previously reported, if I try to load an existing file name into RM and if it's coming from the same folder, it won't "stick". This is what I will want to test some more given zhangrau's results. Perhaps I was doing something wrong.

 

But I also discovered something even more strange. If I try to load an existing file name into RM and if it's coming from a different folder than the original, the process "just works". The same file name is loaded into RM twice, once from each folder. This is in conflict with everything I had understood about how RM manages media. In particular, how could this possibly work in the event that links become broken and you need to run the Fix Broken Links tool?  The only data that RM has available to use to fix broken links is the file name, given that the file path is broken. So how would the Fix Broken Links tool deal in any sort of rational manner with duplicate file names? Perhaps zhangrau could report whether his multiple links to the same file name were from the same folder or from different folders.

 

I certainly agree that the Media Gallery itself doesn't scale very well for large databases, even for modestly large databases. So I seldom use the load from Media Gallery option. On the other hand, I do go the other direction quite a bit, tagging a given media file to multiple objects in RM. But this presumes I've already located the media file by some method other than the Media Gallery itself, such as being in the Edit Person screen or being in a screen to edit a source or citation.

 

The scalability problem with the Media Gallery is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that the Media Gallery has a pretty good search feature. But the search feature is not an adequate substitute for some sort of folder or tree structure support for media files from within RM itself.

 

Jerry

 

 



#6 zhangrau

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:29 PM

1. My test links were all the same file, from the same folder.

 

2. RM;s Fix broken media links tool does not work properly if two different files have the same name and are in different folders. Since RM doesn't use the previously stored path (and why would it?) then it seems to assume the FIRST file found during its search that matches the file name is the one it should use to "fix" the broken link. How do I know this? Because in my earlier days I made the mistake of using identical names for different files in different folders. I honestly don't know how bad my situation is, because I now know that I can't use Fix broken media links, buy I use the Search and Replace > Multimedia files tool when I am sharing my database with others. Perhaps some day I;ll figure out how to convert my duplicated file names to UNIQUE file names. I probably should do that before I pass on my research to the next generation......



#7 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 06:55 AM

Upon further review, adding an existing file from the same folder does "stick" if I add it to a general person record, to a master source, or to a citation. It does not "stick" if I add it to a fact. This is loading from disk and not loading from the media gallery.

 

My previous tests were all adding to a fact which is why my test results were as I reported them. It seems not to matter whether I am adding as an image or adding as a file.

 

When I'm adding media to a fact and it fails to "stick", it initially looks like it's working. As soon as you add it, it's there. But if you exit the media album for the fact and re-open the media album for the fact, the newly added media file is not there.

 

Jerry



#8 kbens0n

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:22 AM

I'm not sure what testing others refer to, but I can:

- use the same procedure (camera icon, Add new media button, Media type Image, Media location Disk)

to attach the same "pointed-at" image file to Person, Spouse, Parents and all listed facts in the Edit Person screen (where a camera icon allows) and every one will show a checkmark.


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#9 zhangrau

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:15 PM

I agree with kbenson. Don't know why it doesn't seem to work for others.



#10 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:28 PM

Upon further review, adding an existing file from the same folder does "stick" if I add it to a general person record, to a master source, or to a citation. It does not "stick" if I add it to a fact. This is loading from disk and not loading from the media gallery.

 

My previous tests were all adding to a fact which is why my test results were as I reported them. It seems not to matter whether I am adding as an image or adding as a file.

 

When I'm adding media to a fact and it fails to "stick", it initially looks like it's working. As soon as you add it, it's there. But if you exit the media album for the fact and re-open the media album for the fact, the newly added media file is not there.

 

Jerry

 

This is why I asked these questions earlier. It can make a difference in being able to attach the media to the same person as a fact.

 

Is that media already attached in another location to the same person?

 

Was the media downloaded through the Ancestry API using WebHints or TreeShare to that other location?

If it was a WebHint was it a Photo hint or an image connected to a historical record?


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#11 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:29 PM

Here is a screen-cast of the problem. There is no guarantee that same procedure will produce the same failure on anybody else's copy of RM, but this procedure is 100% guaranteed to produce the failure on my RM system. The screen-cast is about 3 minutes long.

 

https://www.screenca.../t/IjRgJIIMnkVa

 

Jerry



#12 TomH

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:24 PM

I replicated your results, Jerry. No tag created for the event but there was for a citation. The score is 2-2, or is it 3-2 on the assumption that Megang66 was also trying to add a "new" file to an event for a person already having that file tagged to the person. The same thing happens whether I copy the filepath into the Add New Media dialog or use Add from Gallery to select the item. 


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SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#13 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:01 PM

The same thing happens whether I copy the filepath into the Add New Media dialog or use Add from Gallery to select the item. 

 

That's an interesting new symptom that I hadn't noticed because I almost always add new media from disk instead of from the gallery.

 

Jerry



#14 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:21 PM

If you watched the screencast very carefully all the way to the end, you might have noticed that there was either a user error on my part or a curious bug on the part of RM. You can choose which it is, bug or feature.

 

The error has nothing to do with the failure of a media tag to stick. Rather, the problem has to do with deleting a media tag. After adding the media tag to the citation for the purposes of the screencast, I wanted to delete the tag to clean up behind myself. So I highlighted the media item and clicked the Delete button. There were two media tags for the media item, and RM deleted the wrong one. It's a user error in the sense that I didn't select a tag to delete. But I also think it's an RM design error. Either it should have defaulted to deleting the media tag for the RM object where I was (the citation), or else it should not have defaulted at all and should not deleted a media tag until I made a selection.

 

This reminds me of the bug/feature in Lists->Places where you highlight a Place, then highlight a Place Details, then click Delete. It deletes the  Place rather than the Place Detail. To delete a Place Detail you have to highlight a Place, then highlight a Place Detail, then click Edit, then click Delete.

 

Jerry



#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:07 AM

Since no one seems to want to answer my question on WHERE the media came from I will tell you what we already know.

 

If the media was downloaded from Ancestry there is an id attached to it. It comes in on the general media level. If you take the same Ancestry media item and try to attach it to a fact for the person it will not attach. If you go to a totally different person and attach it to them it will.

 

To get around this go to the media file and make a copy of it. This removes that id connecting the person and image together. Then add a new MediaTag using the copied image, it can be added multiple times to the same person. I recommend getting rid of the original Image so there is no confusing in using it later for that person.  


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#16 zhangrau

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 10:04 AM

Thank you, Renee. That clarifies why I had no issues. Many of my graphics are JPGs downloaded from Ancestry, but not attached to an Ancestry tree, therefore my graphics have not been IDed with any particular person. You explanation makes sense to me.



#17 TomH

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

Since no one seems to want to answer my question on WHERE the media came from I will tell you what we already know.

 

If the media was downloaded from Ancestry there is an id attached to it. It comes in on the general media level. If you take the same Ancestry media item and try to attach it to a fact for the person it will not attach. If you go to a totally different person and attach it to them it will.

 

To get around this go to the media file and make a copy of it. This removes that id connecting the person and image together. Then add a new MediaTag using the copied image, it can be added multiple times to the same person. I recommend getting rid of the original Image so there is no confusing in using it later for that person.  

I joined the discussion after your question but I can tell you that the media I used for my test was created by me and the database file was not linked via TreeShare at any time.


Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#18 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:46 PM

My apologies for not clarifying. None of my media came in from ancestry. My database currently is linked to TreeShare, but the only thing I have done with TreeShare is to upload from RM to TreeShare and to look at some of ancestry's Webhints. I have not re-synced anything between RM and ancestry in either direction since the initial upload. I have not brought anything in to RM from ancestry by any means.

 

I say again: nothing has come into my RM database via TreeShare. The images that I used in my screencast came to me via postal mail on paper many years ago, and I scanned them into my desktop computer with my desktop scanner.

 

Jerry



#19 Renee Zamora

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 03:08 PM

If you use a copy of the image do you still have this problem?  Can it be attached to other people?


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#20 TomH

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 03:37 PM

Yes, I can attach the same image to anything other than the events of the Person to whom it is already tagged at the Personal (General) level.

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