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True Shared Facts


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#1 c24m48

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:44 AM

I'm going to make a fairly outrageous claim. Namely, I claim that RM doesn't support shared facts. My wish is that it do so.
 
RM does support a thing which it calls shared facts. However, RM's shared facts are actually fact roles that can be assigned to other individuals in the database. The original fact itself cannot be shared. Another way to say the same thing is that every fact has a role called principle which is for the person who owns the fact, and the principle role cannot be assigned to another individual in the database. Therefore, another way to express this wish is to ask that the principle role for a fact be able to be assigned to multiple people.
 
For example, suppose a large family moved from Tennessee to Missouri an 1857 and suppose you have a user defined fact type called MOVE. You can assign the MOVE fact to one of the family members but you can't directly share the MOVE fact with other family members. Instead, you have contrive some sort of role for the MOVE fact and assign that role to the other family members.
 
There is a longstanding wish that it be possible to copy a fact from one person to another. This would be a very useful feature. If it were possible to copy a fact from one person to another, then the putative MOVE fact could be assigned to one family member and then copied to the other family members. However, if something later changed about the MOVE fact for the family members, you would have to make the same change for every family member. As a true shared fact, the change would only have to be made once and the change would automatically be appled to all the family members.
 
Another example might be the birth fact. It's already possible and reasonable to assign the role of MIDWIFE to the birth fact and to use RM's role mechanism to assign that role to the person who assisted in the birth. But if there were twins and you wanted to share the birth fact with both twins to avoid double data entry, it's not so easy. True shared facts would make it easy to share the birth fact for twins.
 
Needless to say, if RM were to implement the ability for a fact to have multiple principles, it would be necessary for there to be an option to export such shared facts as unshared facts in GEDCOM and to exchange such shared facts with TreeShare and FamilySearch as unshared facts.
 
Jerry


#2 hotelcalieagles@gmail.com

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:35 AM

Ditto

 

Shared facts have caused me no end of problems. My issues with this topic have been exasperated greatly since I started using the new RM - Ancestry tools, WebHints and TreeShare.

 

Basically, I did not understand the true nature of shared facts when I first started using RM. Then, when I tried to load my tree to Ancestry, I discovered the whole host of issues discussed previously in this forum. Anyway, now the problem is how to fix the mess. As I understand it, I need to convert all shared facts to "stand a lone" facts for each person. Obviously, that is a big task. I've also changed to that practice going forward.

 

I've read in this forum about "drag and drop" methods, etc. but that also takes quite a while to do. Currently, I'm using the following method to "copy facts".

1) share a fact from person A to person B

2) go to person B add new fact for person B with same date

3) copy data including sources from shared fact to new fact (they will appear one above the other)

4) tag any media to Person B and the event for the new fact

5) remove person B from the share for the original fact for person A [this removes the share from person B and leaves the new fact for person B]

 

This seems to work fine with no issues, but obviously takes time to repeat for all the persons for whom you are setting up the same fact.

 

One tool that would really help with the conversion of shared to individual facts would be a "fact copy" utility. For example, if a person has a wife and thirteen children, a census fact could be created for the head of the household, and then copied to each member of the family as individual facts. To retype all this data takes forever. 

 

Rick


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#3 BevSmallwood

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:55 AM

I'm currently in the process of re-entering an astounding number of events because of this problem.  I assumed the shared facts in RM would work as they did in TMG.

 

Please take Jerry's suggestions to heart and make some serious improvements to this functionality.

 

Thank you

Bev



#4 TomH

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:39 PM

Hear, hear! This truly shared fact request has its parallel with the request for master citations and with the current capability of Media tagging. Maybe it should be called a Master Fact or Event with Fact/Event tags to individuals and couples.

We've wrestled with the shared events incompatibility with other systems and the absence of any mechanism to post the same fact/event to multiple people. Enhancements have been on the wishlist for many years. And 'temporary', user-developed outboard SQLite workarounds have been available for almost the same length of time.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#5 rosellirj

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:13 AM

As a former TMG user, I too fully support this request for true fact sharing.



#6 hotelcalieagles@gmail.com

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:21 AM

As I have previously stated here, I would like to see  a "copy fact" utility development given a high priority.

 

However,

Given that no "fact copy" function currently exists for RM, and that there is no estimate as to when one will be available, I have decided to continue using "shared facts" for the time being. My primary database is RM. I have read the many posts on this forum about all the issues with shared facts/events and GED's, TreeShare, etc, but I only have a few family members with whom I exchange genealogy, and only one who is actively researching. As a result, I think it would be more time efficient to focus on getting my tree researched, all be it with shared facts, than to worry about what does and does not transfer through to various other genealogy programs.
 
Later, when an appropriate tool is available, I will be able to add "individual facts" as needed. (I know it's "pay me now or pay me later", but there is no guarantee RM will have this function in the forseeable future).
 
Also, since shared facts will not transfer to my Ancestry tree, except for the principal person,  I am considering using the following method to flag the persons who have shared facts in RM. 
 
1) Any time a fact is shared in RM, temporarily add the custom fact type, "Shared Facts in RM", to the principal's profile. (This fact will transfer to Ancestry, and the fact description text it contains refers thereader to the principal person's profile for more info on what is shared.)
 
Name: Shared Facts in RM
Abbrev: Shared Facts 
Fact type: Personal
Use
  Date: No
  Place: No
  Description: Yes
Include
  GEDCOM: Yes
  Publish online / Create HTML: Yes
  Group sheets: Yes
  Narrative reports: Yes
  Individual summary: Yes
  Lists: Yes
Sentence template:
[person] has one or more < [Desc]>< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
 
2) Add the following text to the description line in the fact "Shared Facts in RM" [I guess you can not add a default description to the fact type],
"Shared Facts - See Principal's profile in RootsMagic for Share details" [I use a keyboard shortcut program - QuickPaste-  to do this]. 
 
3) Use Search, Find Everywhere in RM, to search for "Shared Facts". This identifies all principal persons with "Shared Facts", for future correction when a "copy fact" utility is available. (Of course, the principal persons profile in RM has all the details regarding what was shared with who.) You can also use the people view and modify the layout to include this fact type.
 
After syncing the principal person with Ancestry, the undated fact will show up, with the text description, at the end of the facts listed. This will alert anyone who is looking at the tree in Ancestry that there are some shared facts to be considered. I intend to reload my RM tree to Ancestry at a future date after the tools are more perfected, and I have finished cleaning up my data base in RM.
 
I would appreciate any and all comments, suggestions, pro's or con's about this approach, before I start down this path.
 
Thanks
Rick

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#7 TomH

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 12:04 PM

Adding your "Shared Facts" message to the Principal does nothing for someone viewing one of the Sharers in the non-RM system. You would have to add it to the Sharer and name the Principal and the fact - that's almost as much work as adding the referenced shared event itself to all the sharers.

Because I'm somewhat adept with SQLite, I would explore the potential and drawbacks of a couple of scripts I developed long before Ancestry TreeShare came along. One copies an event to a group. The other converts shared events to individual ones.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#8 hotelcalieagles@gmail.com

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 12:22 PM

The purpose of the Shared Facts message was more for me than anyone else viewing my tree in Ancestry. My Ancestry tree is private anyway. I see your point. It may be actually be less work to create individual facts to start with, than to try and fix shared facts later.

 

I have tested the SQLite script for converting shared events and it does handle that OK. However, I'm somewhat reluctant to use shared facts and keep having to use a 3rd party software to change them after the fact. For just me, in RM, it It is certainly easier and faster to use shared facts, but then you have all the drawbacks for sharing the tree with someone else on another platform. 

 

Best thing to do I guess is probably to wait for the fact copy utility, and just create individual facts in the mean time. (Oh, why does my Tree have so many families with 12 or 13 children ....  :(  )

 

Thanks for the comments. 

Rick


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