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Source Details/ Media Missing after WebHint Updates

Missing Source Details

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 03:35 PM

Not sure if this is an issue or if I'm just not fully understanding how Ancestry WebHints work.......

 

I've noticed when I review Ancestry WebHints in RM and then bring them across to my RM tree, I some times only get the Ancestry citation and not any details from the source record.

 

If I look at the hint on line in Ancestry, I see source record details in Ancestry that did not transfer over from Ancestry to RM. I have also noticed that some source media available in Ancestry did not transfer with the hint to RM.

 

I was expecting to see the fact details, the source citation, and any attached media in the RM event/ fact after the WebHint transfer is completed. Instead I'm just seeing a "bare bones citation", usually with no source details.

 

I have to keep going back to some of the hints and look at the info on line in Ancestry, save it to my tree in Ancestry, then use TreeShare to bring "all" the info into RM. This takes a lot of extra time and it seems like it should just be straight forward by using WebHints.

 

What am I missing?

 

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:14 PM

Is there a particular type of WebHint you see this happening on? I have some that the details don't transfer over. For some reason Ancestry just isn't sending it in the API. If I put together a list of collections it happens on, it would probably help with our reporting back to Ancestry on it.  I just need some examples, especially the ones where it works if you connect it on the Ancestry tree and then the details move over, verse when you just use the WebHint to add the information.


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#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 03:49 PM

OK, I'll make a list and post back. It happens all the time so should not be too hard.

 

Thanks

Rick


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#4 Rick Landrum

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:07 AM

Renee,
The first test I conducted was to take a WebHint, in my RootsMagic (RM) tree, and import the record to RM, first using WebHints, and then TreeShare. This hint was for a "census record" [Ancestry called it a "residence" record].  I added as a new event in RootsMagic (RM) and Accepted changes. The event was added as a "Residence" fact with the description "Age: 28; Occupation: Rev. Officer; EnumerationDistrict: 204; MaritalStatus: Married; RelationToHead: Self". The source record had no Master Tab text, no Detail Tab text, but did have the media (census page image) attached to the source record. Next, I viewed the WebHint on line in Ancestry.com. It had media (copy of census page) and source record details. I then saved the record to my Ancestry tree. Next, I used TreeShare to save the record to my RM tree. (I saved it as a new record so I could compare the results of the WebHint and TreeShare loads. The results were as follows:
 
The WebHints loaded source record had no Master text or Details text, but did have the media attached in the Media tab. No source record details were included.These were available in the Ancestry source record. (see attached image of Census missing source details).
 
The TreeShare loaded source record was basically the same except that there was some Master tab text, but still no detail text. The media was attached in the Media tab. 
==========================================================
The second test was a WebHint for "Find A Grave Index".
The results were basically, the same.
The record added by WebHints had a basic source citation, but no source details or master source text. In this example there was no media attached to the source record.
When I viewed the hint record on Ancestry on line, it did have source details.
I added the record to my Ancestry tree.
Then when I added the record to RM using TreeShare, those details did not come across, but again there was a brief Master tab text. 
==========================================================
The third test was a WebHint for a "Death Certificate".
Once again the results were the same.
The record added by WebHints had a basic source citation, but no source details or master source text. In this example there was media (image of the death certificate) attached to the source record.
When I viewed the hint record on Ancestry on line, it did have source details.
I added the record to my Ancestry tree.
Then when I added the record to RM using TreeShare, again those details did not come across, but again there was a brief Master tab text. The media was attached to the source record. 
===========================================================
There are numerous examples, but all seem to be the same. No point in going on and on.
 
The major omission between the source records as presented in Ancestry, and the resulting records in RM,  is that neither tool imported the Source Record Details to either the source detail tab, or to the  fact/event notes, in RM. [Prior to TreeShare, I used to copy these details from the source record in Ancestry and paste them into the source details tab in the source record in RM].
 
[Note - I have jpg's of the screens supporting the above but have yet to "crack the code" on how to upload attachments to a post]
 
Here is an example of what I am calling Source Details (from the Death Certificate hint) that are available in Ancestry but WebHint and TreeShare are not bringing across to RM:
 
Name: George Crockett Poplin Sr. Gender: Male Race: White Age: 78 Birth Date: 29 Feb 1878 Birth Place: Wilkes, North Carolina, United States Residence: Ronda, Wilkes, North Carolina Death Date: 21 Nov 1956 Death Place: Ronda, Wilkes, North Carolina, USA Spouse: Nora Crumplis Poplin Father: George C Poplin Mother: Rebecca Jane Pinnix   Search for George Crockett Poplin in North Carolina Wills & Probates collection
 
Hope this helps
Rick

RickL


#5 Rick Landrum

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:09 PM

Renee,
After working with WebHints some more I am still having the same issue with not all of the source record information coming across to RM from Ancestry when I add a hint item to RM.
 
It occurred to me that I may not be using the correct terminology when describing the problem. I'd like to make another pass at it, this time with some screen shots.

Here are the URL's for the images:
<https://postimg.org/...age/bnxm7kfvj/>
<https://postimg.org/...age/wh00vz8f3/>
<https://postimg.org/...age/a6c5w0b4v/>
<https://postimg.org/...age/bzf2kbwbj/>
 


I had an ancestry webhint for one of the persons in my RM Tree. I saved the hint to my tree as a new item. It came across, was posted, and the source data was loaded.
 
See image #1   
 
Next I viewed the hint item in Ancestry. That is when I saw significant record details available, but they did not come across to RM with the source data.
 
See image #2 
The next image shows the source details that were posted to RM for this item. However, there were no record details included (which were available in Ancestry).
 
See image #3 
 
The next image shows the Detail Text with nothing in the Research Notes or Comments.The record details are also not in the Fact Notes.
 
See image #4  
 
The result of this is that I have to go to Ancestry on each new hint and check if additional details are available. If they are, I have to copy them and then paste them into my RM record. I usually paste them into the Detail Text Research Notes or Comments for the referenced source. Depending on the detail content, I sometimes will also paste the information into the Fact notes.
 
I've also checked the data brought across to RM from Ancestry via TreeShare. Basically the same thing happens as with the WebHints. The source information is posted but the record details do not come across. 
 
I've also noticed it happens with all types of facts, not just a particular example.

Please look into this and advise if this was by design by Ancestry, or if something is not working correctly. The answer could have a bearing on whether or not it is worth while to use the new tools.
 
Thanks
Rick

RickL


#6 Renee Zamora

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:31 PM

What you see on image 2 for Ancestry is not their source details, its an abstract (or extract) of the record. Ancestry doesn't always add all of the abstract to their sources. Often you need to copy this since its not included. Keep in mind that the abstract isn't a complete transcript of the record either. So transcribing from the original record may still be needed.


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#7 Rick Landrum

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:05 AM

OK, what I am seeing in my RM tree after I bring in a webhint is the source data with "no" record details. I have to then go to Ancestry and copy and bring back "record" details manually. This is very time consuming, especially if I am reviewing many person's records in my tree. As a result, I plan to use the following process instead.

1) Turn on Ancestry webhints
2) Use webhints to identify potentional leads in Ancestry for my person
3) Compare the hint to what I already have in my RM tree
4) If I do not have the fact in my tree, then go to the person in my Ancestry tree, look at Ancestry hints from there, and add the item to my Ancestry tree from there. I can also copy any "record details" to paste into my RM Tree later.
5) Goto RM Tree Share for the person and bring in the fact(s) and source(s) to my RM tree.
6) Goto the person in the RM tree and paste in the "record details" if needed.

My expectation was that these new tools would do a complete job of syncing my two trees. If I have to do this manually then the whole exercise of trying to use webhints to bring a fact into my RM tree is sort of a waste of time, other than the notification that a new hint may exist.

Perhaps this should go on the wish list for future.

Thank you for your time.

RickL


#8 Renee Zamora

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:30 PM

RootsMagic doesn't have any control over what Ancestry sends us. It would be a good idea to ask Ancestry support to add all the abstract details for the record into their sources, since is what your looking for.  


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#9 Rick Landrum

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:55 PM

A good representation of what I'm looking for would be to use the print function in A.com when you are viewing the fact source. That always has the "extract" of the record details and the complete source information. Then copy the print preview and paste it into my RM fact either as a note or as a comment in the source details tab. That is the process I was using before TreeShare and I always got basically everything I wanted. I will communicate that to their support to be added to the "TreeShare wish list".

 

Thanks

Rick


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#10 Renee Zamora

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:58 PM

Ancestry won't call it TreeShare, that's just RM name for the tool. It's the Ancestry API, but first they would to need it add extracts to the sources they attach on Ancestry. It needs to be attached to a field that the Ancestry API will send it to RM.


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#11 Rick Landrum

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

OK, Thanks

I'll post back here with a copy of what I send them FYI

Rick

 

------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I sent to Ancestry Support -

 

Ancestry Technical Support

 

My name is Rick Landrum

 

I am an Ancestry subscriber, and I also use Roots Magic software.

 

I currently have family trees on both systems, and I use the new Roots Magic "TreeShare" function in RM to sync the two trees.

 

I discovered an  issue (or perhaps an omission) regarding how this application works.

 

I discussed it at length with Roots Magic Support and they referred me to you because they said it is in the Ancestry API, an area that Ancestry controls, not Roots Magic.

 

Problem definition:

When I receive an Ancestry.com "hint" it appears in my Ancestry tree and in my Roots Magic tree. I then have the option of using RM WebHints or RM TreeShare to add the hint fact or event to my tree in RM. This works and adds the fact and a source. However, the source, coming from Ancestry, is very basic and does not include any Record Details. When I view the person's fact in Ancestry, I usually see additional details regarding the fact or event, but these are not forwarded to RM through either the WebHints or TreeShare syncs. I can copy these details and then paste them into RM, but it does not happen automatically.

 

Suggested improvement:

I would suggest that these "Record Details" could be passed by the API to one of the following RM fields as a note; the RM Source "Detail Notes" or the "RM Source Detail Comments".  This way the user can see the details in RM and can, optionally, copy some or all of them into the RM "Fact Notes". This would make the Ancestry/RM tree sync process infinitely more useful and efficient.

 

I am including the following actual example with screen shots to help illustrate the issue:

 

I received a webhint in RM from Ancestry.com for a "draft registration" fact for a person in my RM tree. I then used RM WebHints to import the fact to my RM tree.

See screen shot (control click)

<https://s19.postimg...._-_Anc_Hint.jpg>

 

 

When I viewed the hint/fact in Ancestry.com I saw a detailed "abstract" of information available about the record.

See screen shot (control click)

<https://s19.postimg...._-_Anc_Info.jpg>

 

 

When I viewed the fact in RM, and looked at the source information that WebHints imported, the source details were there, but no record details.

See screen shot (control click)

<https://s19.postimg....-_RM_Source.jpg>

 

 

However, when I viewed the fact in RM, none of the "Record Details" came across from Ancestry. The Fact notes, source Detail notes, and Source Detail comments were all blank, even though the information was available in Ancestry.

See screen shot (control click)

<https://s19.postimg....urce_Detail.jpg>

 

 

I apologize if my explanation or terminology are not fully correct. Please advise if you have any questions regarding this subject.

 

The basic question is:

How can we get the Record Details to come through the API and be posted to a field in RM?

 

I would appreciate any insight you can provide.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

Rick Landrum


RickL


#12 Rick Landrum

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:45 PM

See previous post for copy of email sent to Ancestry.com Support regards missing record details.

 

One additional comment then I promise I'll get off this. :wacko:

I've found the following process to be workable - it's tedious and requires a lot of mouse clicks but it does get the job done (at least until Ancestry does something with this....).

 

1) in RM tree click yellow bulb for ancestry hints

2) when WebHints opens click on a hint that you do not already have in RM tree

3) click check box to add fact to RM, accept (this places the fact in RM so you can then add notes)

3) click on "view on line" for the hint you are working to see in Ancestry

4) highlight and copy any record details in Ancestry (that you may want) to clip board, return to WebHints screen

5) click on edit RM, go to new fact in RM just added from hint

6) open the source that was loaded from Ancestry when hint fact was loaded, go to Source Details

7) paste clip board contents into the source detail notes (or comments if you prefer), save edited source

8) return to WebHints screen and accept the listed hint, close out of WebHints

9) add any of the source detail notes just pasted into the source notes to the fact notes (if desired)

10) use TreeShare to sync the edited RM person back to your Ancestry tree

 

Thanks

Rick


RickL