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RM Freeze while copy pasting data

7.5.3.0 Freeze

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#1 Rick Landrum

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:05 AM

Every since I installed the new update 7.5.3.0 yesterday I have had numerous RM freezes. Usually when I am editing notes in RM. And especially if I am copying info to paste in another note for another fact or event etc. The system asks me to send a message about the freeze, but sending the message also freezes during the send. I have rebooted the PC several times but no help. I am running Windows 10 on a Dell Inspiron laptop. No issues noticed with any other software.

 

Is anyone else seeing this issue?

 

Thanks


RickL


#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 09:11 AM

I can't recreate this on my computer. Have you tried running all the database tools?  (File>Database Tools).

 

Where is your database being stored?


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#3 Rick Landrum

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:13 AM

This happened three more times this morning. My data base is being stored on my PC hard drive. It has performed with no issues previous to this last update. I have not  used any data base tools. I assume you mean diagnostics and fixes in the RM software. I will try that and see if it fixes the issue.

 

Exactly what happens is as follows:

 

When I try to copy (using cntrl C or contrl X) from one of my note fields, RM freezes and  a Bug Notification screen pops up and asks if I want to send a Bug Message to RM. If I click yes, the message starts to send but then it also freezes and does not complete. I have to use (cntrl alt del) to free it up. 

 

Nothing else that I have noticed causes the RM program to freeze like this.

 

----------

OK, I ran all of the database fix tools and found nothing, all ran with no problems

 

I'll  post back if any more freezes

 

Thanks


RickL


#4 Rick Landrum

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:28 PM

The same problem continues every time I try to "copy paste" or "cut and paste" from notes text in RM. I ran all of the database fix tools and found nothing, all ran with no problems.

Once RM freezes, only way out is to use Control Alt Del and end the program with Task Manager.

 

FYI


RickL


#5 Renee Zamora

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 04:33 PM

Is this into a Fact Note when it happens?

 

I've seen an issue like this before but it had to do with Webroot silently blocking copy/paste in some applications with its identity shield protection. What antivirus software are you using?  Can you temporarily turn it off to see if it makes a difference.  


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#6 Nettie

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:24 AM

I also have 2 Dell inspirion laptops, Windows 10 & current RM revision and tried working with moving note information to a source manager, detail text and have not had an issues also moved the same note from person note to event note and no freezes.  

 

Removed McAfee software before doing this and now am using free AVG software.  In the past, [2010] McAfee software tried to control many items on my PC and websites,  complained to Dell, they would not listen so now I immediately remove it from all the PC's I buy from them.  


Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#7 Rick Landrum

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

I use Kaspersky. And yes it is RM fact note to RM fact note. Have never noticed this particular problem before but I will test after turning it off and see if that might be the cause.
I've also discovered something else. I am seeing this problem when I use keyboard shortcuts for copying, pasting, or cutting.
If I use the RM note editing icons for copying, cutting, or pasting, I'm not having the problem. Not sure what is up with that, but I will beep using
the icon functions and see if I have anymore freezes. I've always used the keyboard shortcuts with RM in the past and never had a problem before.

Thanks
Rick

RickL


#8 Renee Zamora

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:09 PM

I talked to development and they said its a Windows issue with some program on the computer blocking access to the clipboard. You will need to go through a process of elimination to see which program is blocking access. Look at any firewalls, antivirus or internet filtering software you have installed.


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#9 Rick Landrum

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

OK will try to run it down. As stated earlier, it's the keyboard short cuts where i seem to be having trouble. I haven't changed the settings on any of that stuff so it might be due to some update. I'll test and see if I can find it.

RickL


#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 07:46 PM

Same symptom here - ctl-x in note editor crashes RM. It tries to send an error report and never finishes. RM 7.5.3.0. 64 bit Windows 10 Pro. Avast antivirus.

 

Jerry



#11 lighthouse

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:41 AM

Have you tried this

On a Windows computer you also have a built in firewall.  Its called Windows Defender.  You will need to add RootsMagic to the exceptions list inside Windows Defender. 



#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:14 AM

My Windows Defender is turned off, so that is not the problem with RM. Of course, the discovery that my Windows Defender is turned off suggests I might want to turn it on and use it in addition to Avast.

 

I'm curious as to how it is that Windows Defender is turned off. My Windows 10 computer is fairly new (I never upgraded my old computer from Windows 7 to Windows 8 or to Windows 10), and I installed Avast on day one of the new computer. I never touched Windows Defender one way or the other on the new computer.

 

It's appearing that my problem is not repeatable. CTL-X crashes RM only occasionally and usually it doesn't crash. The problem is very intermittent. The only thing that has changed is the upgrade to RM 7.5.3.0. My current project is to split the death fact into multiple facts where the death fact becomes a death fact and an obituary fact and a death certificate fact. The CTL-X is to cut note text from the death fact note in preparation for pasting the same text into the obituary fact note or into the death certificate note.

 

Jerry



#13 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 07:30 AM

The more I think about this, it seems impossible that it's an RM problem. It has to be a Windows problem. And yet, it only happens in RM and it has only started happening since the last RM upgrade. So far, it only happens for me when I use keyboard shortcuts. It doesn't happen with right click to accomplish the same thing. And even with keyboard shortcuts, it's intermittent. I don't run any keyboard shortcut software.

 

Jerry



#14 mjashby

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 07:32 AM

Windows Defender will be (or should be) turned off automatically if a user installs any 3rd-Party Security application such as Avast that is designed to perform the same function to avoid conflict.  

 

It's generally viewed as bad practice to have two anti-virus/firewall/anti-malware security scanning applications functional at the same time as they will compete for resources slowing down systems and, almost as certainly, will result in unpredictable system conflicts/crashes, i.e. products from different developers rarely show 'respect' for the role or functionality of its competitors! 

 

Mervyn


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#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:55 AM

Jerry, it's a good thing you don't have Windows Defender and Avast both enabled at the same time. When antivirus first came out I installed two thinking if one was good, two would be even better. I thought I broke my computer the conflict was so bad.

 

Curious what your setting is under Tools>Program Options>General for "Use plain text when pasting to notes".  If you change it is there any difference?  I tried and I still can't make it crash on me. That's the closest I can think of RM having any control over pasting.


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#16 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:06 PM

Curious what your setting is under Tools>Program Options>General for "Use plain text when pasting to notes".  If you change it is there any difference?  I tried and I still can't make it crash on me. That's the closest I can think of RM having any control over pasting.

 

My RM paste setting is not to paste in plain text (which means to paste as formatted text). But it's hard to see how that could have anything to do with it because the crash is occurring at Cut time, not at Paste time. It crashes before I even get to the paste.

 

And even though the RM developers suggested that something must be preventing access to the Windows clipboard, it's also hard to see how that is the problem. CTL-C for copying does exactly the same thing to the Windows clipboard as does CTL-X for cutting, and I have not seen a crash from CTL-C. Also, right_click->Cut does exactly the same thing as CTL-X including what it does to the Windows clipboard, and I have not seen a crash from right_click->Cut. The only thing I have ever seen that causes the problem is CTL-X. However, given how intermittent the problem is, I can't swear that CTL-C or right_click->Cut will never cause the problem. Also, CTL-X has never crashed any application I run other than RM. And the problem started with RM 7.5.3.0  So it seems to me that something in RM must be contributing to the problem, no matter how indirect or subtle that contribution might be.

 

Jerry



#17 Renee Zamora

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 04:29 PM

I've seen issues reported when people were using Ctrl-V so its not just Ctrl-X.  If it was simply a RM issue then everyone would be having this issue. It took us a while to figure out Webroot was causing it with silent blocking with it's identity shield protection last time. I'm putting the link to that thread so you can see if there is a pattern for now. 

 

http://forums.rootsmagic.com/index.php?/topic/14633-cannot-copy-and-paste/ 


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#18 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:44 PM

I have managed to create a one person database in which this problem is totally repeatable. I placed the one person database on a thumb drive with RM to Go where the problem remained totally repeatable. I took the thumb drive to another machine where RM was not installed, and I ran RM to Go on the other machine. The problem remained totally repeatable.

 

The other machine is an old RM7 machine which has very little software installed. The only anti-virus or other protection software on the old RM7 machine is Avast, which I disabled after removing the machine from the Internet. The problem was still totally repeatable on the one person database with RM to Go. I really don't know anything else to turn off on the old RM7 machine.

 

I'm opening a ticket and submitting the one-person database to see if the problem remains repeatable when RM staff look at it on their own computers.

 

I'm repeating myself a little bit here, but I think there has to be something wrong at the RM level. I'm aware of all the indications that this is a Windows problem or an anti-virus problem or something like that and not an RM problem. But I think I have pretty well eliminated everything outside of RM. In my particular case. CTL-X crashes but not CTL-C. CTL-X crashes but not right-click_then_Cut. Neither CTL-C nor right-click_then_Cut would work if something was blocking the clipboard. The problem persists on a stripped down Windows 7 machine with virtually no software installed on it and with anti-virus turned off, even though I first encountered the problem on a Windows 10 machine with lots of software including anti-virus.

 

Jerry

 



#19 Rick Landrum

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 03:19 PM

I am still having the issue with RM freezes when I try to cut text from a fact note to paste into another fact note. I am also not seeing the problem anywhere other than in RM. Like Jerry, CTL-X crashes but not CTL-C. CTL-X crashes but not right-click_then_Cut. I have not seen this issue when working with text in sources, only fact notes.  I have turned off all internet and PC security software and have noticed no difference. Again, I never saw this problem prior to the RM 7.5.3.0 upgrade. 

 

Thanks

Rick


RickL


#20 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:05 PM

With Jerry's test file and steps to reproduce I could confirm this issue. It has now been passed onto development. 


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