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Marriage Dates Not Always Displaying Correctly


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#1 MacRooter

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

Is anybody having intermittent problems with incorrect marriage dates being shown in Family View after using the toolbar button to add a spouse?

 

Having successfully entered several marriages in RM today by using the toolbar button to add a spouse, I have had two instances of Family View incorrectly showing the details of marriages for other people in my database.  I have run database tools and restarted RM but the problem persists if I use the toolbar button to add a spouse.  If I add a marriage fact to one of the parties to the marriage, then add date, place and spouse that way, the marriage details are correctly displayed in Family View.

 

I am not sure whether the problem is actually with the toolbar button or whether it is related to my computer.  I am running RM 7.5.2.0 on Mac OS 10.11.6.

 



#2 RobJ

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 06:53 PM

I'm not sure from your description if my issue is the same, but please check the following post, and see if it matches what you see, and the circumstances leading up to it.

 

http://forums.rootsm...ing/#entry85186



#3 MacRooter

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 04:59 AM

Thanks for your reply, Rob.

 

My issue is not entirely the same as yours though we both seem to have problems with the way RM handles marriages!

 

I added a spouse to an individual in my database by clicking the "Add Individual, Spouse, Child" toolbar button > Spouse > New Person.  After adding the new person's name and clicking "OK", I added the date and place of marriage as "1915" "Bermondsey, Surrey, England" then clicked "Add marriage event.  On returning to Family View, I noticed that the marriage date and place was showing as "1730 Norfolk, England".  The 1730 Norfolk marriage relates to another couple in my database, but not to the home person.

 

After running all four database tools and restarting RM, I repeated the process using the same spouse and marriage details.  This time, Family View displayed the marriage details as "1808 Lowestoft, Suffolk, England".  That marriage applies to yet another couple in my database but, again, not to the home person.  Unfortunately, I did not check whether any additional marriage facts had been added to those party to the 1730 and 1808 marriages.  

 

Like you, I use RM to synch back and forwards with Ancestry (not Family Search).  As I noticed the error, I did not carry out a synch.

 

I deleted the spouse and marriage details, ran all four database tools and restarted RM again.  This time I double clicked on the female to whom I wished to add the spouse and added a marriage fact.  The correct marriage details then displayed in Family View.

 

I am not sure whether the issue is down to the toolbar button not functioning correctly or whether it is due to the fact that I had been using RM almost non-stop for several hours (perhaps I have broken it!).

 

I have tried to replicate the problem this morning by using the toolbar button to add a spouse and have failed miserably.  The correct marriage details are showing in Family View.



#4 RobJ

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 07:52 AM

You've added some nice detail, that I hope will help the developers.  Clearly, there's a problem with the marriage fact linking wrongly.  But the cause of it may be hard to pin down, as we got there in different paths.

 

Perhaps the database checking tools could be enhanced to detect when a marriage fact is linked to the wrong couple.  Or when a couple has 2 marriage facts applying, one in the fact list and another in the family summary, this one used to check for aging errors.



#5 TomH

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:32 PM

Have a look at the Marriage List report with MRIN turned on. Compare MRIN numbers with RIN numbers. I'm wondering if the error is confusion of the standard Marriage event which is a family (couple) type fact type with the Individual Marriage event fact type which RM has had to deal with because of TreeShare.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#6 RobJ

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 05:53 PM

Really great suggestion!  I'm still unfamiliar with so many features RM has, that it took me awhile to find it.  (This is a small tree I was doing for someone else, just to help out.  Turned out to be a LOT more trouble than I expected!)  As far as I know, no names below are living.

 

* Rec#3 should be '1947 Hamden', currently in Rec#4.

* Rec#4 should be '1872 Charlestown', currently in both Rec#6 and the second Rec#5.

* Ones before and after that are correct.

* There appear to be 2 Rec#5's, one of which is correct ('1865').

* There are 2 Patrick O'Briens in the tree, the second of which is in Rec#7, but he does NOT have a spouse, and there should be no marriage rec here.

* Anna Marion Nolan has one spouse, Laurence Stephan Nolan, with no marriage fact yet.  But somehow there is another spouse attached to her, with the name 'Unknown Unknown', RIN 1240100.

 

RM_marriage_fact_issue2.jpg



#7 TomH

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 09:36 PM

In Tools > File Options, for number to display after name, select "Record number". Then regenerate that report and look for duplicates between Marriage Record Number and a person's RIN. I'm suspecting a Marriage event for an individual was assigned the family type or vice versa.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#8 RobJ

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:18 PM

I checked a lot of lists, reports, and charts, and almost all do show the RIN, but not the Marriage List, the Surname Stats List, and I believe the Narrative Reports.  So I added them by hand, to the image above.

 

Your idea looks very plausible.

* The 1872 marriage fact was supposed to be in Rec#4, for the couple with RIN's 5 and 6, but instead is written into an extra Rec#5 and Rec#6.

* The 1947 marriage fact was supposed to be in Rec#3, for the couple with RIN's 4 and 20, but instead is written into Rec#4.  If it also attempted to write into Rec#20, I wonder if that would cause a 'Range error', since Rec#19 was the last one.



#9 MacRooter

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:19 AM

Thanks very much for your replies Rob and Tom.

 

I have printed a marriage list and there are some incorrect entries there which I will need to sort out.  One of these is one of the marriages which was shown in Family View for a completely different couple.

 

Quite by chance, I discovered yesterday afternoon that the parents of an individual not affected by the marriage problem were displayed three times in the "Facts View".  I have no idea how that happened.  After unlinking the individual from his parents three times, I added the parents again and everything looked normal.  I am not sure whether/how that issue was connected to the problems I was encountering with marriages but marriages I have added since now display correctly in Family View.  Here's hoping I haven't spoken too soon...

 

Thanks, again, for your help.



#10 Renee Zamora

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 09:01 AM

Development is working on this issue. Right now if you do a drag n drop of your database it should clear the marriage corruption you are seeing.


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#11 RobJ

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 09:44 AM

I was going to ask about that, but figured I would wait until it seemed closer to a resolution,so not to bother anyone too much - then Renee read my mind and answered it anyway!  Amazing!   :D



#12 RobJ

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 04:04 PM

A follow-up, belated I know - I used Drag & Drop to create a new db, and used the new 7.5.3 db cleanup tools on a copy of the original corrupted db, just to compare.  Both worked roughly the same, producing a cleaner db with no marriage record corruption, but neither was perfect.  Both retained all marriage records with their correct couples, and both removed the wrongly linked data (marriage years and places) of the corrupted records.  Both removed the corrupted Rec#5, and kept the good Rec#5 with '1865'.  The Drag & Drop did not bring over the bad [Unknown] [Unknown] person, but left Anna Marion Nolan with the extra Marriage record with a phantom spouse (her only spouse is Laurence).  The new db cleanup did not remove the [Unknown] person, and in fact I could not find anyway to select them for deletion or unlinking.  They don't appear to have a person record, so they seem to be another kind of phantom that could be removed.

 

Neither removed Rec#7, with the second Patrick O'Brien and no spouse (a phantom spouse).  And the Drag & Drop created a second phantom spouse when it removed the phantom person.  This too seems like another cleaning improvement that could be made in the db cleanup tools.

 

Because of the problems still existing in the records, and all of the duplicated, tripled, and quadrupled facts in some records, I think it's best if I give up and use TreeShare to re-download the db from Ancestry.



#13 MacRooter

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:15 AM

Rob

 

It sounds as though you have had more problems with your db marriages than I!  I think you may be right when you say it might be best to download your db from Ancestry again.

 

When I was trying to sort out my problems with incorrect marriage dates showing I also discovered a few phantom spouses.  I eventually managed to get rid of them but can't be sure exactly how I did it.  I have a feeling that I unlinked all children from the parents first, then unlinked the father(s) and mother(s) from each other before "rebuilding" the marriages and families.  Might be worth a try, if you don't want to go to the trouble of downloading your entire tree again.

 

I have also noticed that my marriage list has quite a few missing MRINs - presumably these relate to the marriages I had to delete to get round the erroneous display problems.  The missing MRINs do not trouble me unduly though I did wonder whether this might be corrected if I were to download my tree from Ancestry to a new db.  To be honest, I'd far sooner put up with a few missing MRINs than have to deal with people apparently marrying long before they were born.

 

For what it is worth, after sorting out my earlier problems I don't go anywhere near the TreeShare button until I have carried out my new marriage routine.  First, I enter the spouse and marriage fact on Ancestry and check that this has been correctly applied to both parties to the marriage.  I then add the spouse and marriage fact in RM.  Only then do I dare to use TreeShare to synchronise RM with Ancestry.  Since I adopted that procedure, I have not noticed any erroneous marriage data being displayed.  I hope I haven't spoken too soon! 



#14 RobJ

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 02:03 PM

Thank you for your comments!

 

* Phantoms: The second Patrick O'Brien (in Rec#7) never had a spouse or child. I just added him to his parents for completeness, with practically no data.  That means Marriage Rec#7 should have belonged to another couple, but since there is no data in it (except his name) I don't know where it came from.  The phantom 'Unknown' person in Rec#18 can't be directly displayed, but I found I could get to him 'sideways' by clicking on a legitimate person, changing to Family View, then clicking on the '[Unknown]' person.  He had no name, but did have a birth and death fact identical to Anna's true spouse Laurence (1890-1985 Hamden).  And he has a child with no name but the same identical birth and death facts (1890-1985 Hamden).  Clicking on the child just highlights the [Unknown] person in the left list.  On a right-click, deletion and unlinking options are presented, but they don't work.  (This is all after the new 7.5.3 db cleanup.)  Thankfully, the Drag & Drop version of this db cleared him out completely, but it would be nice if the database cleanup tools could also do that, as well as remove any marriage records with only one spouse (unless intentionally added? with an unknown spouse?  not my problem! for RM to figure out!).

 

* Missing MRIN's: should be harmless, similar to deleting records, there would be missing record numbers.  In my picture above, Rec#14 and #15 are missing, no issue.  The Drag & Drop produces a db with them all renumbered from one, so if the missing ones bother you, a complete Drag & Drop should clean all of that up.  One thing I forgot to mention about Drag & Drop is that I was concerned whether the new db would be still connected to Ancestry.com.  (I'd completely forgotten about Jerry's comments about successfully dragging over one person!)  I can confirm the completely new db was still fully connected, every person to its Ancestry counterpart, *and* the hints were still 'Confirmed', no repeat of the hints.

 

* New marriage routine: that sounds like a good and safe way to do it, avoiding the potential issues.  Hopefully RM will figure it all out, and it won't be needed in the future.  Integrating partially incompatible systems is always hard.

 

* Sanity checks: (just a suggestion for the developers) it's been awhile since I was programming complex systems, with multiple programmers and subsystems, but one thing I used to like to do was add sanity check mechanisms, either fully doubly linked lists where I could completely rebuild systems on either side, no matter where the corruption occurred; or to add simple sanity check flags or ID's, that allowed early detection of issues before further corruption or errors occurred.  It could be as simple as adding a bitfield to the person record, where you could reserve a single bit for each critical item, like 'is there a marriage fact', 'a birth fact', 'a death fact', etc.  A db or record integrity check could easily and at any time determine if something is missing, wrongly linked, corrupted.  It could be a little more advanced by adding an additional marriage fact bit, 2 of them so that it can count 0, 1, 2, or '3 or more' marriage facts.  It requires a little more error checking logic, but pays off in cleaner records and systems, easier debugging, until you achieve a well-tested and stable system.



#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:46 AM

RobJ did you open a support ticket and submit your file that was having the issue? That's the only way development will know what to look for if the database tools are not fixing it.


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