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Rootsmagic/Ancestry issues


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#1 AlanWatson1958

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:52 PM

I am very grateful to the Rootsmagic team for developing this function and for rolling out a quick improvement to it. It seems generally to be stable and well-designed. It will allow me to make use of the two systems more effectively. I have two groups of issues:

 

The amount of work involved

The system is too labour intensive to be viable in the long term. The main points to be fixed here are

1. Being able to approve all the changes in one direction or the other by person, or even for all people, while retaining options to review individual changes (as many others have suggested)

2. The need to re-write the way that Rootsmagic holds sources at the person level (as the Rootsmagic team has noted)

 

However, there are other things. For example matching a Rootsmagic person to one in FamilySearch causes it to come up on the list of changes for comparison with Ancestry, even though nothing relevant to Ancestry has changed in Rootsmagic. This can cause lots of work to review.

 

Problems involving the integrity of data

1. When an existing Ancestry (or Rootsmagic) person is added as parent, child or spouse of another person, the interface prompts you to create a duplicate in the other system and does not give you any option to link the new parent, child or spouse to the already existing person. There is a way of working round this by duplicating the linkages on both sides, but this means remembering to handle each one individually.

2. When a person has more than one spouse, the interface does not handle marriages properly. Both husband and wife have a marriage added, but the neither marriage includes the spouse. To fix this manually, you need to go into Rootsmagic, delete and then re-add the marriages.

3. The initial download of trees transfers the status of children (biological, adopted, step, unknown etc), but the interface does not pick up changes and let you pass them through.

4. I deleted a surname in Rootsmagic, but was not given the option of deleting the same surname from Ancestry.

5, As others have noted, there are problems dealing with duplicate events. For example, I had a duplicated marriage in Rootsmagic, one copy with a husband, one without, but the details otherwise the same. These both linked to the same single marriage event in Ancestry, suggesting that there was a duplicate there too when there was not, and not giving me the option to delete the duplicate in Rootsmagic.

 

Thanks again for developing this excellent function. I do hope that you will be able to continue to work on improving it.

 

 

Alan Watson

 

PS Now that Rootsmagic has a working relationship with Ancestry, it would be great if you could persuade them to make some basic changes to their system too - adding prefix and nickname fields to Ancestry would be fantastic.



#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 11:13 AM

The first group of 1 & 2 are on the enhancement request list. 

 

I cannot see the adding of the FamilySearch ID causing the person to appear on the Change List. I know the FamilySearch ID is passed to Ancestry in the upload and then returned in the person downloaded. But, I can't see that we are passing that after the initial upload or download.  Are you sure you didn't add other facts to the person after they were matched?

 

 1. When an existing Ancestry (or Rootsmagic) person is added as parent, child or spouse of another person, the interface prompts you to create a duplicate in the other system and does not give you any option to link the new parent, child or spouse to the already existing person. There is a way of working round this by duplicating the linkages on both sides, but this means remembering to handle each one individually.

A: When you add the person the links to the other family members should go with it. You can always add the person through the relationship of another person if you want to make sure. 

 

2. When a person has more than one spouse, the interface does not handle marriages properly. Both husband and wife have a marriage added, but the neither marriage includes the spouse. To fix this manually, you need to go into Rootsmagic, delete and then re-add the marriages.

A: That is correct, because Ancestry only has individual facts and not marriage facts. The fact is added to each spouse and can be edited independent of each other. RootsMagic is handling the best it can right now.  We add a marriage fact to both spouses when in TreeShare. In WebHints it only goes to the one spouse. 

 

3. The initial download of trees transfers the status of children (biological, adopted, step, unknown etc), but the interface does not pick up changes and let you pass them through.

A: It goes with the relationship link when you first add the person in either direction. If you're not adding the relationship again, then there isn't anyway for us to change it. I will put it on the development list to see if they can update it outside of the relationship.

 

4. I deleted a surname in Rootsmagic, but was not given the option of deleting the same surname from Ancestry.
A: You should be able to replace or write over with another name. It doesn't have a way to just replace with a "None" value. I will put it on the enhancement list to see if there is a way for development to replace with a none value.

5, As others have noted, there are problems dealing with duplicate events. For example, I had a duplicated marriage in Rootsmagic, one copy with a husband, one without, but the details otherwise the same. These both linked to the same single marriage event in Ancestry, suggesting that there was a duplicate there too when there was not, and not giving me the option to delete the duplicate in Rootsmagic.

A: This is because Ancestry does not have family facts, only individual facts. See item #2.


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#3 AlanWatson1958

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 08:12 AM

Thanks for your comments. Here are some further replies.

 

I am completely certain that matching a person in Rootsmagic to one in FamilySearch causes him/her to appear on the list of changed people on the Ancestry interface. I am talking about a person who previously existed in both Ancestry and Rootsmagic, matched between those systems, but only recently matched to Rootsmagic

 

I have had to clear many hundreds of these from the interface and it is trivially easy to clear all the matched people from the Rootsmagic/Ancestry interface, then match a single person from Rootsmagic to FamilySearch and then reopen the Rootsmagic/Ancestry interface and there they are.

 

1. When you add a new person in rootsmagic or ancestry their family links do travel with them, but that's not the problem I am raising. When you link an existing person in either system as a new relative of another existing person, then the interface prompts you to create a duplicate person rather than to link the existing person. Try it and see. Of course one can work round this, but it is not a desirable state of affairs, so I am asking for it to be put on the bug list.

 

2. I understand that the Ancestry data model is different from (inferior to) that in Rootsmagic, but it does contain enough information to avoid this problem. Marriages can be entered in Ancestry with or without a spouse. When a spouse exists, it should be used to create a marriage event between the two people in Rootsmagic.

 

3. You can change relationship types on the user interfaces in both systems so I don't see why it would be impossible to change them via the interface.

 

4. Thanks,

 

5. It seems to me that this problem occurs because the interface is joining the events between Rootsmagic and Ancestry using an SQL join on person, event type and date. If it finds two events in one system and one in the other, the SQL produces two rows of output. This is neither inevitable nor desirable. If there are other attributes that differ between the two events (eg spouse on a marriage - it is easy to produce duplicates in Ancestry one with and one without a spouse) then the interface should like the identical events and show the unmatched event as such, so that it can be added or deleted as required. In any event, one can check that there are the same number of events on the two sides.

 

Thanks for looking into these things.

 

 

Alan Watson



#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 09:27 AM

1. When you add a new person in rootsmagic or ancestry their family links do travel with them, but that's not the problem I am raising. When you link an existing person in either system as a new relative of another existing person, then the interface prompts you to create a duplicate person rather than to link the existing person. Try it and see. Of course one can work round this, but it is not a desirable state of affairs, so I am asking for it to be put on the bug list.

A: Are you in TreeShare or WebHints when you are doing this? WebHints will only let you add a relative. It won't match to someone already in the database as a relative. The record is only for the person you are on. If you want to add a record to a current relative then you go under their WebHints. If your in TreeShare then on the person's match screen you have the option to Link, Add or Delete. If your on the relative's compare screen then the options will be Add or Link for the family member. The person has to be in your database in order to match, and not already matched to someone else.
 

2 & 3, 5 already addressed. These are things development is aware of and could not get to work in beta testing.

 


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#5 AlanWatson1958

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 06:33 PM

Hi,

 

I just randomly married two people in Ancestry. I have treeshare in front of me, although I am afraid that I can't see how to upload a screenprint of it here.

 

In the left panel the two people that I have just married both appear. When I select either of them, they appear in the right panel with a new spouse. The spouse has the usual square tickbox to his/her left. 

 

Selecting this shows one and only one option: 'add as new spouse'. There is no option to delete or link the new spouse.

 

When I add one of the couple, the spouse appears for the other, and I have a duplicate person in Rootsmagic. Interestingly, the duplicate person does not just appear as a new spouse, but also inherits the correct parents, so the duplicate is relatively easy to spot and merge (or in this case delete).

 

If this is now fixed in beta then very good. But this is the performance that I have seen many times in live.

 

 

Alan

 

PS. Having undone my spurious marriage, I just matched a person in Rootsmagic to one in FamilySearch and sure enough he appears on Treeshare for Ancestry as changed.



#6 AlanWatson1958

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:25 AM

Hi again,

 

On treeshare, there is no way to delete in Rootsmagic a relationship which has been deleted in Ancestry.

 

I have had two examples today, one where I had mistakenly married a woman to the wrong brother and one where I had mistakenly added a child to a second rather than a first spouse. In both cases, I wanted to keep the person but delete the relationship. In the end I had to unlink both people manually in Rootsmagic. This is not very difficult but it is also not ideal as you have to make a note of the required manual changes while you are working through the list of changes on treeshare.

 

Alan



#7 Renee Zamora

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:17 AM

Both things you mention are correct behavior for how it works right now. Relationships will be added when you add new people. There isn't anyway to add relationships afterwards. You will need to link and unlink on the RM and Ancestry sides.


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