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#1 BarbaraL

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:41 PM

I need to learn how to search RM more effectively. I need to find those individuals whose father's first name is X and whose son's first name is Y. Could someone give me a gentle nudge in the right direction?

Or, do I conclude from the thread "Search for couple, including spouse name" that that search is not possible?

 

Thanks!

 

Barbara



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 02:04 PM

Searching for a father and son by first name is not possible in RM.  RM does not support child/parent searches.

 

However (and this ironic if true), I wonder if it might be possible to load your RM database to an ancestry.com tree, and then do the search from the ancestry.com user interface. In general, ancestry supports child/parent searches, but I would need to play with this one to confirm that it would work.

 

Jerry



#3 TomH

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 02:56 PM

I don't think you can confine an Ancestry search to your Ancestry Tree.

Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 04:29 PM

I don't think you can confine an Ancestry search to your Ancestry Tree.

 

You can confine the search to trees, and then look only in your own tree. That's not quite the same thing as just searching your own tree, but it's close.

 

Jerry



#5 BarbaraL

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 06:10 PM

OK, thanks for the confirmation!



#6 BarbaraL

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

So, the next step for me (a potential TMG migrant) is to find out whether there is a work-around. What are the options? I would think such a search would be possible in SQLite (?). Would one just open up the relevant tables using SQLiteSpy (or one of the other applications you recommend) and run the search from there? (The Quick Start says that you don't even need to close RM to do so.) Is that what experienced RM users do when you need to do something that RM does not support?

Can such queries be incorporated into RM itself in some way, or does one always need to run an external application?

Barbara



#7 TomH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 01:03 PM

Yes, such a search is possible with a custom sqlite query in a sqlite manager such as SQLiteSpy. I often resort to Spy et al and do not necessarily close the database in RM. However, there are some RM operations that are blocked or error out because the live database file is also open in the sqlite manager. Backup is one of them and RM is not graceful at recovering from the error so you have to force close RM and close the sqlite manager before reopening the db with RM.

 

RM has no provision for incorporating custom queries. That is something I asked for a long time ago.


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#8 zhangrau

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 01:07 PM

I was able to create a Group and a Custom Report to find a couple by specifying one person in the group, and using the Custom Report to present a list of persons with their spouse. This was to solve a need to search for a spouse based only on their Given Name. Unfortunately, the Custom Report facility does NOT have fields for parent or child, so that approach cannot be extended to cover your wish.

 

This thread explains what I did:

http://forums.rootsm...son-and-spouse/



#9 BarbaraL

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 01:53 PM

Again, thank you Tom and zhangrau. Off to learn more about RM tables...

 

This process of getting to know a new genealogical software program is like getting to know another culture. Should I eat pizza with my fingers, with a knife and fork, or not at all? Does pizza even exist? :)



#10 kbens0n

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

Unfortunately, the Custom Report facility does NOT have fields for parent or child, so that approach cannot be extended to cover your wish.


Just a note that <Father name> and <Mother name> *ARE* available fields, so:
- creating and naming a group marking all people with given name equals Mortimer
- followed by creating a Custom report with columns for Record number, Given name(s), Surname and Father name (or Mother name)
- then choosing the previously-created Group FirstNameMortimer from <People to include>

will produce a report to help narrow further. Unfortunately the <Options> for Sorting DO NOT include Father name nor Mother name, so more manual perusal is required than if sorting was more comprehensive.

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
---Ô¿Ô---
K e V i N


#11 TomH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:05 PM

BarbaraL, here's some pizza:

DROP VIEW IF EXISTS ChildOfPersonNamed
;
CREATE TEMP VIEW ChildOfPersonNamed
AS
SELECT DISTINCT C.ChildID AS PersonID FROM ChildTable C
JOIN FamilyTable F USING(FamilyID)
JOIN NameTable N ON F.FatherID = N.OwnerID
WHERE N.Given LIKE 'X%' -- First name of father
;

DROP VIEW IF EXISTS ParentOfPersonNamed
;
CREATE TEMP VIEW ParentOfPersonNamed
AS
SELECT DISTINCT F.FatherID AS PersonID FROM FamilyTable F 
JOIN ChildTable C USING(FamilyID)
JOIN NameTable N ON C.ChildID = N.OwnerID
WHERE N.Given LIKE 'Y%' -- First name of child
UNION
SELECT DISTINCT F.MotherID AS PersonID FROM FamilyTable F 
JOIN ChildTable C USING(FamilyID)
JOIN NameTable N ON C.ChildID = N.OwnerID
WHERE N.Given LIKE 'Y%' -- First name of child
;

-- Person whose child's first name is 'Y' and whose father's first name is 'X'
SELECT DISTINCT PersonID FROM ChildOfPersonNamed
NATURAL JOIN ParentOfPersonNamed
;

Substitute for X and Y in your copy of the script. The result is a list of RINs that you can use with the Alt-R record search in RootsMagic Explorer. This script inspects Alternate Names and the unknown person may be male or female.

 

And follow the link below for more on using SQLite on a RM database.


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#12 zhangrau

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:55 PM

Just a note that <Father name> and <Mother name> *ARE* available fields, so:

 

I stand corrected. So creating a Custom Report to search for a parent is possible. 

 

Unfortunately, the TINY view of the very long list of fields made it way too easy for me to miss those. I just didn't think Father or Mother instead of Parent, and scrolling through that really long list is pretty awkward. I suppose that's at least part of the reason why I find creating new Custom Reports to be a hassle.



#13 BarbaraL

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:37 AM

I didn't order pizza with the works, but I devoured it gratefully! Thank you, Tom!

FWIW, I have 36 individuals whose father is named John and whose son is named John. I converted your works pizza into a couple of pepperoni pizzas to determine that I have 23 males and 13 females whose father is named John and whose son is named John.

It looks like your example is complex enough that I can use it as a model for other queries. And there are lots of examples at SQLite Tools. I looked at Jerry's A Sample Query Created with Views, https://sqlitetoolsf...ated with Views. I am hoping that that provides a model for creating query modules (views) that can be stored in a library and reused without putting a lot of work into refamiliarizing myself with the database structure and with SQLite syntax each time I need a query.

 

Thanks for the idea, zhangrau and kbens0n. I was able to create a list of parents named John using the custom reports. So, that is a simpler solution for that simpler problem. Saving the report as .rtf or text allows me to sort it as I wish.

Barbara







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