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How best to document evidence of parent relationship?


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#21 Johnj_au

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:00 AM

I confronted this parentage problem when I came over from TMG a few years back.

 

My approach has been to add a ChildParent fact, and then use the fact only when parentage information (say in a will) is needed to be recorded.

 

My fact has two roles:

Principal (the child) with sentence <In [Date:Plain] >[Person] was the <?[Desc]|[Desc]|<%son|daughter|child>> of [Parent].

Parent with sentence <In [Date:Plain] >[ThisPerson] was the <%father|mother|parent> of [Person].

 

I share the child (who is the Principal) fact with both parents who are noted as a Parent role.

 

Seems to work.

 

Cheers ... John.



#22 Dick-TMG

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

I have been converted from TMG to RM for about three years. (no going back) I am still cleaning up artifacts that did not import well into RM. The relationship between child and parent has recently come up since I am writing a story about a small portion of my database and the childparent artifact showed up.

 

Question: How to most effectively treat the Parent Child relationship in RM7.

 

Rm7 appears to work with the first set of parents exclusively in reports and charts bypassing any adoptive parents or step parents.

 

On the person main screen where the person, spouse and parents are listed, there is a place for multiple parents, there is a place for sources and notes for the parents. In experimenting with this it appears not to be as useful as I would like. That data is attached to the parents. If the parents have 10 children with 2 sources each for the Parent Child relationship then all 20 of those sources appear for each child – thus making this confusing and it appears that this info would not appear in reports or charts.

 

My approach would be to add a My Parent Child fact different from the RM generated fact. I would then place a My Parent Child fact just after the birth and explain that relationship with sources. Then I would place another My Parent Child fact after any adoption fact to explain that relationship. I would also do this if a parent remarried and the relationship from child to step parent was worth noting. I have also looked at membership applications to DAR, SAR, etc. I was printed out a relationship chart from me to the appropriate ancestor and then by hand I looked at all the tags between generations and I tried to get both forward and backward pointers for each generation. A birth would be a backward pointer and a will would be a forward pointer in my terminology. I think this would make that process easier if I included all the forward and backward pointers in the My Child Parent fact

 

In each new My Parent Child fact I would include sources, description and notes applying to this fact and make sure that my sentence structure reflects what I want to appear in reports.

 

I could then either include or exclude this fact type from reports as needed. I think this would also pass through any GEDCOM restrictions except for the sentence structure.

 

I am hoping that this will address the child parent issue at least temporarily until RM addresses the issue permanently .

 

Am I getting myself in trouble with this or is there a better way?



#23 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:12 PM

Question: How to most effectively treat the Parent Child relationship in RM7.

 

 

I think the approach you outlined is about the best there is until and unless RM provides something better.

 

I have struggled with the same issue for years. I have not yet implemented anything like your proposed Parent/Child fact for a very frustrating reason.  Namely, I have a lot of focus on what my data looks like in narrative reports, and RM's narrative reports already list parents for the spouse of each principle person. I don't want the parents of the spouse to be listed twice in narrative reports.

 

The same narrative reports do not explicitly list the parents for anybody else, even though the parents are usually implied for most every body else in the report. The thing that RM is really missing in this regard is lack of user control over the sentence template for the spouse sentence. In any case, I'm soon going to introduce a Parent/Child fact into my RM database. I'm definitely not going to use RM's shared facts for this purpose due to the lack of portability of RM's shared facts with other genealogy software.

 

Jerry



#24 Dick-TMG

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:31 PM

Jerry,

 

I to am trying to get narrative reports to look the way I want. I am missing TMG because I could format the reports exactly as I wanted but that is not available now.  I am interested in your second sentence about the parents being listed twice. I have not run into that and my Parent Child only addresses the relationship right after either a birth or adoption fact and the wording from each blends in nicely together.

 

I have been working with PH2 and their LifeCapusle editor which may provide more flexibility in writing a story about people rather than what I call a research report. PH3 is due sometime in the future. But I plan, like I did in TMG, to create a narrative report for the entire database and create a book of my genealogy with all the narratives, charts, photo album, indexes, etc.

 

I should get rid of the TMG part of my name but I haven't figured how to do that without deleting and recreating an id.

 

Dick



#25 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:07 PM

I use the register and modified register reports. That terminology is sort of obsolete and they should be called NEHGS and NGSQ reports, respectively.

 

With either of these formats, you typically get four report sections for each person.

  • The individual facts such as birth, death, and burial for the principle person. Family facts such as marriage and divorce are not included in this report section. If you include some sort of Parent/Child or Parentage fact, this is where the fact would be printed.
  • The family facts such as marriage and divorce for the principle person and his or her spouse. TMG users are usually very unhappy with the whole concept of family facts.
  • The individual facts such as birth, death, and burial for the principle person's spouse. This is where the spouse's parents are listed and you can't control what is printed. If you include some sort of Parent/Child or Parentage fact, this is where the fact would be printed and the information is essentially duplicated from the spouse sentence that you can't control.
  • A list of children for the family. This list contains only the basic facts for each child, and for children with at least one child or spouse their main listing is carried forward to the next generation. For children not carried forward to the next generation because they have neither a child or a spouse, you cannot control what is printed.

So it's in that third section of the report that I get the duplication of parent information for the spouse if I include a Parentage fact for each person.

 

Another option for narrative reports is the indented option. There are three versions of indented reports - outline, Henry and D'Aboville. I have not worked with them as much as with the NEHGS and NGSQ reports. In all honesty, I would probably prefer the indented option except for a couple of things. One thing is that if you have a report with a lot of generations, your report tends to walk off the right side of the page. The other problem is that each person is only listed once and is not listed with their parents and then carried forward to the next generation. This means that for many families in a report, there is not a list of the children on the same page as the parents. And for the children of the founders of the report, the last child of the founders may be listed dozens or hundreds of pages after the first child of the founders.

 

Jerry



#26 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:11 PM

I should get rid of the TMG part of my name but I haven't figured how to do that without deleting and recreating an id.

 

 

After all these years on this forum, I would love to rename my userid from c24m48 to something more meaningful. But I don't think it's possible unless Renee has some magic she can do with the forum software.

 

Jerry