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Birth sentence template


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#1 robertjacobs0

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 08:17 PM

I like to see birth sentences of the form A, son(daughter) of X and Y was born, etc. I have devised this template:

 

[person:given:surname]<%<, son of <?[father]|[father]|> <?[father]|<and [mother]>|[mother]>,>|<, daughter of <?[father]|[father]|><?[father]|<?[mother]| and|>> [mother],>> was born< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place:short]>.

 

It seems to work for both sons & daughters and for the cases where both parents are known, only one is known or none are known. To use it one has to add the parents' names to the shared list, as mother and father respectively. I've made it my default birth template.

 

I hope I've not spent time duplicating what someone has done before me. I didn't find a similar template inthe forum, but could easily have missed it.

 

All comments gratefully received -- and a coffee invitation for anyone who can do this:

 

A, son (daughter) of X(b.xxxx, died.xxxx) and Y(b.xxxx, died.xxxx) was born, etc.



#2 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 09:29 PM

All comments gratefully received 

 

I suspect you are going to run into a problem with the spouse sentence (the birth sentence for the spouse, or more generally the sentence for the first event for the spouse and the first event is usually the birth event). Namely, the birth sentence for the spouse already lists parents so I think you are going to have the parents listed twice for the spouse sentence. Or perhaps you are going to solve the problem by not adding the parents of the spouse to the shared list. My problem with that approach is that sometimes I run a narrative report through one spouse and sometimes the other spouse. Therefore, I try to enter my data so that narrative reports read correctly no matter which family line I'm reporting on.

 

The spouse sentence gives me a lot of heartburn and the problem is that it is not under control of any sentence template that I can discover. I have the same heartburn with the "short" sentences that appear in the list of children in NGSQ and NEHGS reports that they are not under control of any sentence template that I can discover.

 

Jerry



#3 robertjacobs0

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:49 PM

Dear Jerry,

 

Ouch! Of course I did all my testing with the narrative sentences in the edit person window -- I'd forgotten that the RM reports have minds of their own. And I may have discovered an error in the logic for a female subject with a father but no mother.

 

I thought I had nice little hack -- I guess it's back to the drawing board. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

 

Robert



#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 07:16 AM

Beating a dead horse here,  but the spouse sentence is really frustrating. As you may or many not recall, I have converted all my sentence templates to point form (see http://forums.rootsm...-for-this-year/ and also http://sqlitetoolsfo...arratives Setup The point form templates result in a ,. sequence in the spouse sentence that I don't seem to be able to get rid of any way other than post processing the RTF file. I can take care of the ,. problem with a global replace, but if RM's spouse sentence properly honored my sentence template then I wouldn't have the problem and this particular post processing of the RTF would not be necessary

 

Also, I have been considering doing the same thing as you have with respect to listing a person's parents in narrative reports.  But I have been stopped in my considerations by the duplication that would arise from the fact that the spouse sentence already includes the parents of the spouse. My plan with my point form source templates has been to split the Birth fact into three different facts, yielding three different sentences.

  • The first fact would be the Name fact. The template  for the Name fact would do nothing but list the name. Separating out the name in this manner would provide me with a connection point for sources that are specific to the person's name. Providing a connection point for Name sources is my primary motivation splitting out the name into a separate fact. It would also solve a problem in that my sentence templates would then produce correct results for carriage returns and new lines when producing narrative reports for Web sites in a pre-RM6 style. You wouldn't be able to tell from looking at a narrative report that I had produced the effect of the Name on a separate line by using a separate fact except for the placement of the citation superscripts.
  • The second fact would be the Parents fact and would serve to list the person's parents. The Parents fact would produce results very similar to the way you were putting the person's parents into the sentence template, except that in my case the parents would be listed in point form. Again, the primary motivation for splitting the parents out in this manner would be to provide a connection point for sources about the person's parents. You wouldn't be able to tell from looking at a narrative report that I had produced the effect putting the Parents on a separate line by using a separate fact except for the placement of the citation superscripts. Otherwise, I could have done it in the same way you have done it. But so far I'm stymied by the presence of the names of the parents in the spouse sentence. I may yet figure out a good way using regular expressions to remove the names of the parents from the spouse sentence produced by RM.
  • The third fact would be the birth fact which would list nothing else than the birth information itself.

If I were to adopt this strategy, I would be relying on the fact that RM narrative reports print the person's name as a part of printing the person's first fact, and I would use sort dates to be sure that the Name fact is the person's first fact. But so far, I'm remaining conventional and just leaving the Birth fact alone.

 

Jerry



#5 robertjacobs0

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 12:59 PM

Dear Jerry,

 

I did follow the point form discussion, so I appreciate at least some of your points. The problem we both seem to be facing boils down to the fixed format of narrative reports. There's an irony here for me: in Family Historian, narrative reports do return A, the son(daughter) of X and Y — and so far as I can see, there is no way to change that either.

 

Post-processing is easy and a macro or two would make it easier still. The main problem for me is that both Word and LibreOffice mess up the positioning of exhibits. I've set my Word 2010 to import files in the older Word format (1997 - 2003?), but I don't think the setting reaches RTF files. Someone, it may have been you, suggested saving the reports as PDFs and then reconverting them in LibreOffice. I haven't tried that. If the matter were more central to my genealogical life I'd consider investing in Acrobat and learn to manipulate exhibit placement directly. I'm told that that's not a painless task.

 

Meanwhile, out of pure cussedness I fixed my template logic and edited the original post. It's now:

 

[person:given:surname]<%<, son of <?[father]|[father]|> <?[father]|<and [mother]>|[mother]>,>|<, daughter of <?[father]|[father]|><?[father]|<?[mother]| and|>> [mother],>> was born< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place:short]>.

 

Another expedient I tried was to mark the "extra" birth entry as private. It works — the entry is indeed suppressed — but it really messes up the narrative reports.

 

I hope that the next update to RootsMagic improves the report writer and also that the next iteration of Family Historian allows for text formatting. I'll probably concentrate on whichever comes first.

 

Thanks, both for your help and for the clarity of your posts.

 

 

Robert



#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 03:07 PM

I hope that the next update to RootsMagic improves the report writer .....

 

I think I remember Renee saying that RM's report engine is being rewritten. If my memory is correct, then I assume that the report engine rewrite will probably be a part of the rewrite of the entirety of RM that is currently in progess and that will provide a native Mac version and a common code base for the PC and Mac versions. But who knows if such a rewrite will make RM's basic narrative reports better, worse, or just different.

 

I do think that a key part of any rewrite should be to assure that every little teensy bit of text and white space produced in a narrative report should be under control of sentence templates. For example, it is not possible otherwise to produce reports in any language other than English. Supporting UNICODE and implementing French sentence templates does not produce a report in French if some of the text in the report is not under control of the French templates.

 

Jerry



#7 mcphilbrick

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:47 AM

I tried the following sentence template:

 

[person:full]<%, male,|, female,|, of unknown gender,> was born< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>< [Desc]><?[Her child][His child]| to <[Her Child:Given]>< and [His child]>| to unknown parents>.

 

and most of my reports say 'unknown parents'.

 

Would you happen to have the original template format?



#8 robertjacobs0

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:06 AM

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do here. If it's the birth fact for an individual my default template is:

 

[person:given:surname] was born<? [Date]| [date]| on an unknown date>< at [PlaceDetails:plain]>< in [Place:plain]>.

 

If you're trying to note the birth fact with the parents' names in the form of "A, son(daughter) of X and Y was born, etc." then this template will come close to it:

 

[person:given:surname]<%<, son of <?[father]|[father]|> <?[father]|<and [mother]>|[mother]>,>|<, daughter of <?[father]|[father]|><?[father]|<?[mother]| and|>> [mother],>> was born< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place:short]>.

 

Note that it refers to "father" and "mother." You have to enter them with the appropriate roles as sharers in the birth fact.

 

IIRC, the template works, but it messes up the RM7 narrative reports as Jerry suggested in one of the earlier posts in this thread. I eventually abandoned the efforts, essentially for that reason.

 

 

Robert