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Which media files import from FTM to RM?


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#1 DiJo

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 02:24 PM

New problem I need an answer for please! I went ahead and downloaded the full version of RM7, prepared one of my smaller FTM family files for export, and then imported it into RM7. Everything went swimmingly and the media that I had manually added to my FTM file made the trip, but none of the document images - census, marriage & whatnot  - that I had attached to my tree from Ancestry's database seem to have imported. The sources are there, but no images! Yikes!

 

I have several large trees and I have hundreds, if not thousands, of these type records in my trees. What is the problem? Are these Ancestry's proprietary records and am I not able to somehow get them to transfer? If that is the case, it's a huge problem!

 

Help! I don't want to abandon RM because of this.



#2 TomH

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 03:36 PM

They probably are there but you have to look in the right place. Open the Media Gallery and select a thumbnail. On the right side you will see what things are tagged with that media file. Some will be to a person, family, or fact and you will see check marks for those in the Media column if you open the Edit Person screen. However those tagged to a Master Source or Citation thereof (Source Detail) can only be accessed through the Source or Citation Manager. Look up those terms in the Help system.

A real import issue is that the Profile pic for a person appears lost. It is not lost; it is tagged to the person but RootsMagic import failed to set that as the Primary image for the person. It behooves RM Inc to fix that problem quickly.

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#3 DiJo

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 04:16 PM

Thank goodness. You are right. I looked at the media gallery and the thumbnails are there. I guess the green checkmark doesn't light up on the person media link for it always? Thanks for the help - I thought this might be a disaster!



#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 07:07 PM

I don't have an FTM database and I've obviously never imported an FTM database into RM.  So I don't know where media from FTM is attached in RM. However, I think I can provide a little useful information about how media works in RM.

 

I think it's obvious, but it should probably be stated anyway that RM does not store any media in its database. Media in RM remains in whichever Windows folder it was already in and all that RM does is store a file string to access the file (the file name and the subfolder structure under which the file is stored)..

 

Media in RM can be managed in either of two directions, and the two directions are not mutually exclusive. For example, you can be managing media in the media gallery and you can tag a photo of a grave marker to a burial fact. Or you can be in the Edit Person screen managing a burial fact and from there you can connect the same photo of the same grave maker to the same burial fact.  Having done so, the media is equally well "connected" or "tagged", after the establishing the connection you can't even tell which of the two ways was used to establish the connection.

 

Media can be connected to a person, to a fact for a person, to a Master Source, or to a citation of that Master Source (and actually, to a few other things as well, but this list will do for now). A citation can be connected to a person or for a fact for a person. That raises the question of where is the best place to attach media. For example, is it better to attach a photo of a grave marker to a burial fact, to a citation for the same burial fact, or to a Master Source which is a part of a citation for the same burial fact? There is no one best answer for all users, but a new user should understand the possibilities and make informed decisions about which approach (or approaches) best meets his or her needs.

 

Jerry

 



#5 DiJo

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 07:25 PM

Thank you, Jerry. So when I am looking at the media gallery in RM, it is not actually stored in RM. Is it likely still located in my FTM media file and is this where RM follows the string to show the image?

 

This could get complicated if my FTM program goes kaput, and the files are inaccessible. I'm thinking I need to save my entire media file elsewhere on my hard drive instead of in FTM (if that is even possible). I presume the photos & items I've attached from my own mementoes, are accessed by RM in the folder they reside in on my hard drive?

 

Another question, the media gallery items - census records etc that originated with Ancestry - are indeed in the media gallery, but not linked to the individuals they belong to as they were in FTM. How do I get the media items linked to the person they belong to in RM? I have thousands of people in my family files!

 

Diane



#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 08:12 PM

From the media gallery, highlight any media item and the lower right hand corner of the screen will have a frame which contains the file string for the file - telling you the name of the file and the folder and subfolders in which it is stored in Windows. That should tell you, for example, whether the file is still stored "in FTM" or somewhere else. But whether it's stored in FTM or not, it's really stored in Windows.

 

Jerry



#7 DiJo

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 06:56 AM

Thanks, Jerry! I checked and the files are apparently grabbed from my FTM database. Will have to look into how to copy the media files from FTM to My Documents so they will always be accessible to any other program.

 

Diane



#8 rob p

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 11:09 AM

DiJo,

As a fellow FTM refugee, I offer the following:

  • From the "Edit Person" screen, Click the green checkmark for the fact (a Census for instance).
  • On the resulting "Citation Manager" dialog, Click "Edit".
  • On the next "Edit Source" dialog, Click "Media".
  • There's your image.

This cumbersome layering of command is all throughout RM.

Just Click, Hover, Right-click on everything on the page. There's a lott of things here, not intuitave to us.

RM will take some getting used to.



#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 11:52 AM

 

As a fellow FTM refugee, I offer the following:

  • From the "Edit Person" screen, Click the green checkmark for the fact (a Census for instance).
  • On the resulting "Citation Manager" dialog, Click "Edit".
  • On the next "Edit Source" dialog, Click "Media".
  • There's your image.

 

I was going to jump in and tell you from your description of your key strokes exactly where in RM your image had been tagged by the import process. But in all truth, there is not quite enough information in your description for me to be able to tell for sure. The reason is that there is a little subtlety in the way that the Citation Manager works that a new RM user probably wouldn't notice.

 

Remember that an image in RM can be tagged either to a Master Source or to a citation of that Master Source, or to both. And irrespective of images, a citation usually contains what RM calls Source Details that are not included in the Master Source. For different citations of the same Master Source, the Source Details may be the same or different than they are in other citations of the same Master Source. Images that are tagged to sources and citations work the same way. If an image is tagged to a Master Source, it can be seen from every single citation of that Master Source. But if an image is tagged to a citation, then the image cannot be seen from other citations of the same Master Source unless the other citations are similarly tagged with the same image on an individual, case by case basis. The tagging of a particular image at the citation level to several different citations of the same Master Source can be assisted by a process for sources in RM called Memorize and Paste, where a particular citation can be copied multiple times.

 

This brings us back to the subtlety I'm talking about in the Citation Manger. When you get to the Edit Source screen inside the Citation Manager, you will see a button labelled Source and Detail. This is really a drop down menu with three options - Source and Detail, Source Only, and Detail Only. The default is Source and Detail. The images you are seeing are based on the drop down menu. For example, if you choose Detail Only, you will see images tagged to this particular citation but you will not see images tagged to the Master Source. Because Source and Detail is the default, you are seeing images tagged to the Master Source and also images tagged to this particular citation. So the fact that you are seeing images and the fact that you are surely taking the default of Source and Detail doesn't tell me whether the images are tagged to the Master Source, to the Source Detail, or to both. You should be able to play with the Source and Detail dropdown menu to find out.

 

Jerry



#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 12:11 PM

 

This cumbersome layering of command is all throughout RM.

 

 

I refer to this as RM's excessive clickiness, although the problem is much more than just the number of clicks. It's the number of layers under which critical information is buried, and how much drilling down you have to do to get to that critical information. Indeed, you usually have to do a lot of drilling down just discover whether the information you are seeking is there or not, let alone to see the information. You can search on the word "clickiness" in the RM forums for many previous discussions of this issue.

 

Source citations are probably the worst instance of excessive layering in RM. Because of this excessive layering, some RM users tag images of source documents at the fact level - for example, tagging an image of a birth certificate to a birth fact instead to a source citation for that birth fact. Having done so, there will be a little green check mark for the media directly in the Edit Person screen and you can see the media simply by clicking on the little green check mark. I think that's a very good practical solution to the layering problem, but a very poor philosophical solution. For example, suppose you tag a birth certificate to the birth fact and not to the source citation for the birth fact, and then suppose you Memorize and Paste the citation for other purposes - for example, to document the person's parents. Under these circumstances, the image will not follow the citation around and I think it should.

 

As far as the reasons for the design of the RM user interface, my personal opinion it's purpose is to make things very easy for a new RM user who in addition to being a new RM user may not be very computer literate. So the user interface has very much of a "wizard" feel to it. Many programs have sort of a standard user interface and also a wizard interface to make things easier for new users or for certain complicated tasks. RM has a single user interface for everybody, and it's pretty layered and clicky. Despite the clickiness, I still believe that RM is the genealogy program that best meets my needs. None of the others I have looked at are even close.

 

Jerry



#11 Vyger

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 12:51 PM

 

I refer to this as RM's excessive clickiness, although the problem is much more than just the number of clicks. It's the number of layers under which critical information is buried, and how much drilling down you have to do to get to that critical information. Indeed, you usually have to do a lot of drilling down just discover whether the information you are seeking is there or not, let alone to see the information. You can search on the word "clickiness" in the RM forums for many previous discussions of this issue.

 

Source citations are probably the worst instance of excessive layering in RM. Because of this excessive layering, some RM users tag images of source documents at the fact level - for example, tagging an image of a birth certificate to a birth fact instead to a source citation for that birth fact. Having done so, there will be a little green check mark for the media directly in the Edit Person screen and you can see the media simply by clicking on the little green check mark. I think that's a very good practical solution to the layering problem, but a very poor philosophical solution. For example, suppose you tag a birth certificate to the birth fact and not to the source citation for the birth fact, and then suppose you Memorize and Paste the citation for other purposes - for example, to document the person's parents. Under these circumstances, the image will not follow the citation around and I think it should.

 

As far as the reasons for the design of the RM user interface, my personal opinion is purpose is to make things very easy for a new RM user who in addition to being a new RM user may not be very computer literate. So the user interface has very much of a "wizard" feel to it. Many programs have sort of a standard user interface and also a wizard interface to make things easier for new users or for certain complicated tasks. RM has a single user interface for everybody, and it's pretty layered and clicky. Despite the clickiness, I still believe that RM is the genealogy program that best meets my needs. None of the others I have looked at are even close.

 

Jerry

 

thumbs-up-emoticon.jpg   Nice to see a fresh influx of users highlighting and re-iterating some very old issues, also search the forum for "productivity"


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 01:46 PM

 

thumbs-up-emoticon.jpg   Nice to see a fresh influx of users highlighting and re-iterating some very old issues, also search the forum for "productivity"

 

Since Vyger chimed in, I might mention that another area of concern with respect to the RM user interface is bulk data entry.For example, think about typing a bunch of people into an Excel spreadsheet - say their name, birth date and place, death date and place, and burial date and place. The typing would go extremely quickly if you are a good typist. It would take you many times longer to type the same information into RM. For that reason, Vyger has done some interesting work on converting data from Excel spreadsheets into GEDCOM that can be imported into RM.

 

The RM user interface makes it pretty easy to enter one or two people into the system, but a long data entry session where you enter say 100 people or or so can become very painful. One thing I'm not sure about with Vyger's spreadsheet to GEDCOM to RM approach is the entry of source and citation data along with their associated media. Because of the deep layering of the interface to sources and citations, entry of sources and citations can take lot longer than the basic entry of dates and places for events.

 

Jerry



#13 Vyger

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 02:02 PM

 

One thing I'm not sure about with Vyger's spreadsheet to GEDCOM to RM approach is the entry of source and citation data along with their associated media. Because of the deep layering of the interface to sources and citations, entry of sources and citations can take lot longer than the basic entry of dates and places for events.

 

I start touching on very basic sources in the video I am working on, I have much deeper examples which I will work up to. Unfortunately Rootsmagic duplicates templated sources, see video below. Rootsmagic know of the problem and may wish to classify it better than I have.

 

https://youtu.be/ouMUEB3kNqc


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#14 rob p

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 03:24 PM

 

thumbs-up-emoticon.jpg   Nice to see a fresh influx of users highlighting and re-iterating some very old issues, also search the forum for "productivity"

You people are scaring us. RM has plenty of issues.

We're evaluating other softwares as well.

Maybe you guys should try FTM... and then join us in wishing Ancestry would sell it to someone to continue. It's not "the #1 selling genealogy program" for nothin'.



#15 Vyger

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 05:35 PM

You people are scaring us. RM has plenty of issues.

We're evaluating other softwares as well.

Maybe you guys should try FTM... and then join us in wishing Ancestry would sell it to someone to continue. It's not "the #1 selling genealogy program" for nothin'.

 

In my experience FTM also has plenty of issues as most software packages do, genealogy or not.

 

RM is undergoing a complete rewrite at the moment in preparation for version 8, sadly FTM will never see another version. In my experience RM is a dream to use compared to the clunky operation of FTM and yes FTM will have some features I would like to see in RM and logic should dictate that if users desire those features then they must come. I know how hard it is to switch from one software platform to another and then wish the new platform had all the little things you were used to before. It's a bit like changing my vehicle and getting used to the new switch positions and functions but I generally change my vehicle for performance and reliability and RM is streets faster than FTM, again IMO.

 

BTW, I left FTM around 20 years ago and moved to Family Origins (the predecessor of RM) and whilst I missed some things I never returned despite always having a copy.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#16 rob p

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 07:39 PM

 

BTW, I left FTM around 20 years ago and moved to Family Origins (the predecessor of RM) and whilst I missed some things I never returned despite always having a copy.

...There's yer' problem in understanding what we're saying.

And, yes, FTM is fraught with issues, as well. But mostly software buggies, not feature issues.

As I've told my FTM brethren, an ideal solution might be a mash-up of FTM, RM, Legacy and more.



#17 DennyK

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 04:37 PM

Thank you for the very useful information.  I am another refugee from FTM and was afraid my media was all messed up.  Instead it is just a difference between the tools that we need to get used to.  So far this seems to be the right tool for my primary computer based master data.



#18 Bofus

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 10:15 PM

I've purchased RM7 to test as an alternative to FTM 2014.  I was also concerned about the media links for citations being "missing" but finally found them from the "FTM 2014" users group on Facebook.  Overall I'm pleased with RootsMagic at this early stage in testing.

 

One question:  Is there a way to have RM create a copy of all media and place them in a RM Media folder?

 

OK, two questions:  How can I merge multiple FTM files with related persons into 1 RM file?  Can RM handle files with 100,000 persons, 1,000,000 records, 90,000 images?

 

 

Regards,



#19 TomH

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 08:46 AM

1st question: There are two methods I can think of. Both after you have imported the FTM GEDCOM into RootsMagic.

a) Move or copy the media folder structure from FTM to where you want it. Use RM Search > Search & Replace > Multimedia filenames to update the media paths in the database. This procedure will preserve a multi-folder media structure.

B) Use RM File > Backup database with media to create a backup. Then restore from this backup. This procedure collapses the multi-folder media structure into one folder.

 

2nd question:

a) Merging is always a challenge, moreso the bigger the databases. Automatic merging is attractive when the numbers are large but there will likely be a lot of false merges. Duplicate Search Merge is safer but onerous. Both are based on having combined people from both databases. Getting to a combined database is likewise proportionately difficult. Drag'n'drop everyone is easy but selective drag'n'drop of a known duplicate onto the matching person is better control. Then there is File Compare with which you can review individual matches.

B) I have heard of RootsMagic files with hundreds of thousands of people. Yours would undoubtedly be a big one. Some parts of the program can be sluggish with so many. I suspect the Media Gallery in thumbnail view would be with so many images but you may have little reason to go there because there are so many as to render it unuseful. The Sidebar Index might be slow to list. But you can answer your own question for free - RootsMagic Essentials is unlimited that way so try it and see. Of course, you can always speed things up with more powerful hardware...


Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#20 Vyger

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 08:50 AM

One question:  Is there a way to have RM create a copy of all media and place them in a RM Media folder?

 

RM7 will back up all your media to a folder if you require, but also you are free to reorganize your media into your own folder structure (not rename files) and RM will find them again and renew the links to the media.

 

 

OK, two questions:  How can I merge multiple FTM files with related persons into 1 RM file?  Can RM handle files with 100,000 persons, 1,000,000 records, 90,000 images?

 

Yes, I don't quite have 90,000 images yet but I do have 125K individuals in my master file. The performance of RM will not be as fast with such numbers as it would with smaller files but you could not expect any different, and RM was always faster than FTM with the same file size anyway. I believe Duplicate Search Merge is being enhanced for the next version, hopefully to only wark on database subsets (named groups), this is a great tool for data mining possible duplicate individuals and something I don't believe FTM had (or maybe I didn't look hard enough)

 

https://youtu.be/T8JH-3Tf3PM


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root