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Uploading Gedcoms to new Ancestry site - Big Problem!

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#21 alaskalady

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 07:01 PM

Everything you want to happen is done through syncing.  What you want to have happen is not possible without syncing.    A newer GEDCOM file could be synced to an older GEDCOM file, but the links and attachments CANNOT be synced via GEDCOM because they are not part of the GEDCOM.     The links and attachments are stored on Ancestry servers, away from your control.   

 

You are asking for a tool to allow you to update your current GEDCOM file and preserve the links and attachments.  FamilyTreeMaker is that tool.  It is presumptuous of you to ask for anything more, and even more presumptuous to expect to get it for free.  

 

This is my last commuication, because it is pointless.  I have been talking about this with Ancestry and the  reason a gedcom does not overwrite is because it is assigned a number, hence it creates a new database each time.   If instead when a person uploaded it compared file names, and if it found an identical file name, then it would retain the same database number and overwrite.  All the attachments would remain because they are attached to a certain person in that certain database.  Another way would be to imput that database number when uploading additional gedcom and then it could compare file names.  Either way you are not affecting the original attachment.

 

BTW, where does all your rudeness come from?  I sure did not get this kind or any kind of animosity from the techs at ancestry, not even the supervisor I spoke to.   They were interested in what I was asking and more than gracious in explaining technically how their system works!   If you disagree with me, that is your right but don't assign bad motives or intentions to my heart - you are not my judge.  Please show me the respect to not respond to my posts in the future if you cannot do so without your rudeness and condescending attitude.  Thank you!



#22 TomH

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 10:00 PM

If I understand you correctly, you want to do a series of GEDCOM uploads to the same Ancestry Family Tree, not causing a new AFT as it does now with each upload. The only way this can work is for the AFT to be first emptied or for it to be deleted after upload to a new AFT that is then reassigned the former AFT's identity. I agree it would not be 'sync''; rather, just an online representation of your RootsMagic database limited to those things in GEDCOM that both RM and Ancestry support. It would be a publishing tool that allows you to republish an AFT as many times as you want and accessible at the same URL.

It would not be very useful for researching because your sources in RootsMagic will be external to the Ancestry databases, even if they are cited. Ancestry Hints will be generated for many of those same sources.

Any changes you make on the AFT cannot be downloaded to your RM database; that would be 'syncing'. Unless you manually edit the RM database, those online changes will be overwritten on the next upload.

So what you want and what does not jeopardize FTM is the option of replacing an AFT with a new upload. Purely a publishing tool.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#23 alaskalady

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 11:40 PM

If I understand you correctly, you want to do a series of GEDCOM uploads to the same Ancestry Family Tree, not causing a new AFT as it does now with each upload. The only way this can work is for the AFT to be first emptied or for it to be deleted after upload to a new AFT that is then reassigned the former AFT's identity. I agree it would not be 'sync''; rather, just an online representation of your RootsMagic database limited to those things in GEDCOM that both RM and Ancestry support. It would be a publishing tool that allows you to republish an AFT as many times as you want and accessible at the same URL.

It would not be very useful for researching because your sources in RootsMagic will be external to the Ancestry databases, even if they are cited. Ancestry Hints will be generated for many of those same sources.

Any changes you make on the AFT cannot be downloaded to your RM database; that would be 'syncing'. Unless you manually edit the RM database, those online changes will be overwritten on the next upload.

So what you want and what does not jeopardize FTM is the option of replacing an AFT with a new upload. Purely a publishing tool.

That is pretty close to what I was thinking of, but from what you say, I may be mistaken about how the sources are attached to the database in Ancestry.  I was assuming they were attached to the database # and the individual # so that unless the document or the individual were deleted the source documents would stay attached.  Following that thought, I assumed that the initial gedcom upload would get those identifiers set so by re-uploading corrections it would leave those identifiers intact and just overwrite the data.   Please forgive the syntax, I have not programmed in several years and have not kept up as I should with some of the newer languages. 

 

Anyway, my thoughts were just to be able to update corrections to data that way, rather than go online for each change.   I uploaded my database just so I could play around with it and check out any new info on my "brick walls"    It found almost all of my sources and some more which was really helpful so I went ahead and attached them just to see how it all works.   I then went back in to the source document so I could save it to my computer and then I would manually imput the new info from the source document into Roots Magic.  Although I would love to be able to keep the attached documents so family and others could see it online, from what you say this will not be possible if I were able to upload corrections via a gedcom.   So it would be a trade off.   As I see it, I have 3 options:

 

1.  I could put the database up there, make it private and just use it for research.   I started doing genealogy before PC's and by the time the first gen program came out I had a couple thousand people.  I used the first version of PAF and it did not have a separate section for sources - they were put in the note section preceded by an exclamation mark.  By the time, Family Origins came out, I had too many people to change them all over to the source section, so for all these many years my sources are still in the notes.  As you say when I get hints, I get a lot of my old sources, but surprisingly many new ones cause ancestry keeps getting more and more documents.   The one advantage is by having your tree online, it save hours filling out search forms and the hints are wonderful.  After a few months I would delete that database and upload another gedcom and continue searching.  Downside: no point in having others look at it cause no need to attach photos, etc.

2.  I could export gedcom from RM to FTM, then use FTM to communicate with Ancestry.   This way I could update and keep attachments in place.   Still not interested in syncing down to my computer, but if it did it would only affect the gedcom in FTM, not my original database.  I would still make all my changes manually to my original database in RM and save documents to my computer.   After making changes/corrections over a period of time, I could export a new gedcom from RM into FTM and sync those changes up to Ancestry.

3. Switch to FTM, which I will NEVER do!   I have disliked FTM since it's owners bought out Family Origins and trashed it cause they could not take the competition.  I do not know even if Ancestry owned it back then, but I did not like that type of business practice.

 

Anyway, I would value your opinion on all this!   Thanks for listening!



#24 TomH

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:07 PM

The barrier to preserving the sources you attach to a person and their facts in Ancestry when you upload a new GEDCOM is that there is no dialog between RootsMagic and Ancestry that coordinates the unique Ancestry ID number for that person such that Ancestry recognises in the GEDCOM a person already in its tree database. Ancestry is not interested in your database Record Number because it is not unique, it is volatile and it is meaningless in its database. A source also likely has a unique ID and the attaching of a source to a person is to create a link between the source ID and the person ID or to the fact/event ID tied to that person ID. If it were not to delete the AFT database, how could it reliably tie a person in the GEDCOM to the right person in AFT? This is where a synchronising application program interface would be required to exchange these unique IDs between the offline program and the AFT in order to pair up the right people, facts, sources, images...

 

Tom


Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#25 TomH

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 04:12 PM

Your option 1 is what I have been doing but I found that my research advanced so quickly on the AFT that my RM database was rapidly left behind. I tried other things involving importing the AFT GEDCOM into RM, a custom fact to carry the RootsMagic unique ID that relied on SQLite procedures, syncing between the AFT and FTM 2014, exporting therefrom to GEDCOM and manipulating it with a text processor, importing that into RM, more SQLite queries, discovering that over time Ancestry was changing what they exported from both AFT and from FTM... Needless to say, I have been unable to come up with a stable, reliable process whereby my RootsMagic tree might interchange well with AFT. You can review some of what I tried (others not yet published) at http://sqlitetoolsfo...ag=ancestry.com

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#26 alaskalady

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 10:32 AM

The barrier to preserving the sources you attach to a person and their facts in Ancestry when you upload a new GEDCOM is that there is no dialog between RootsMagic and Ancestry that coordinates the unique Ancestry ID number for that person such that Ancestry recognises in the GEDCOM a person already in its tree database. Ancestry is not interested in your database Record Number because it is not unique, it is volatile and it is meaningless in its database. A source also likely has a unique ID and the attaching of a source to a person is to create a link between the source ID and the person ID or to the fact/event ID tied to that person ID. If it were not to delete the AFT database, how could it reliably tie a person in the GEDCOM to the right person in AFT? This is where a synchronising application program interface would be required to exchange these unique IDs between the offline program and the AFT in order to pair up the right people, facts, sources, images...

 

Tom

 

That explains it!  Thanks!  I was mistaken in the way I was looking at "syncing"  Now don't laugh your head off, but here is where I got off track.   I was assuming the online database was just a regular database and that the syncing operation was external to the database rather than being a part of it.   So following that logic I assumed that all the identifiers - database, individual, sources were added to the database when in was created and stored in their own fields online with the database.  So then I reasoned if the data was overwritten by a gedcom the identifiers would not be because their fields were not part of the gedcom so they would stay basically "invisible" to the overwritting.  I was assuming that if the program compared file names secondary to the identifiers, then only the data would be affected.   Since I was assuming that you had to tell it to sync to start the operation, I did not see how the identifiers would even be involved, hence the sources would stay attached and unaffected.   Anyway, faulty logic!   Now I understand the syncing operation is integrated with the online database.  I thank you for making this clear.



#27 alaskalady

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 11:08 AM

Your option 1 is what I have been doing but I found that my research advanced so quickly on the AFT that my RM database was rapidly left behind. I tried other things involving importing the AFT GEDCOM into RM, a custom fact to carry the RootsMagic unique ID that relied on SQLite procedures, syncing between the AFT and FTM 2014, exporting therefrom to GEDCOM and manipulating it with a text processor, importing that into RM, more SQLite queries, discovering that over time Ancestry was changing what they exported from both AFT and from FTM... Needless to say, I have been unable to come up with a stable, reliable process whereby my RootsMagic tree might interchange well with AFT. You can review some of what I tried (others not yet published) at http://sqlitetoolsfo...ag=ancestry.com

Wow! you have done an amazing amount of work into this!  I would love to pitch in and help but due to my failing health and my memory problems I am afraid I would be more of a hinderance than a help.  You have helped me so much to understand what is going on and to see there is no "easy" solution.   So for me I think what I will do as much as I detest using FTM, I will use it just to get my updates online and maintain any attachments I have added.  I realize in my remaining time on this earth, I will never get all my sources attached online so will just concentrate on main families and "brick walls"   Folks that view the data will just have to open the note section to find my sources and extra info.   My main database will remain on RM and any new info from Ancestry I will just imput manually as I always have.  I know this is extremely time consuming, but it does prevent some errors from creeping in that I may never catch. *grin*   At least now I can continue and not feel like everything is in limbo.  Thanks so much and I do hope you will not mind me peeking in at your progress as time goes on.



#28 Renee Zamora

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 11:11 AM

Here is now I keep my database in sync with Ancestry.

 

1. I uploaded a GEDCOM to Ancestry so it will provide me hints
2. Added new sources and info to Ancestry as I find records

3. In the "Old Ancestry" I send my information to FamilySearch Family Tree

4. In RootsMagic I retrieve the information from FamilySearch Family Tree sent from Ancestry.

 

When I made a change in RootsMagic this is how I change it on Ancestry

1. I send my changes to FamilySearch Family Tree

2. In Ancestry I will use the "Old Ancestry" view to sync my FSFT person's data to Ancestry.

 

Right now you have to use the "Old Ancestry" to sync with FamilySearch Family Tree. The "New Ancestry" doesn't have that option yet. I called their support and they are working on it. I think if more people called it would be a higher priority to them to get that feature added to "New Ancestry".

 

In Old Ancestry on the Person Profile page look for the "Sign in to FamilySearch" link next to the "Edit this person" and "Story View" buttons.

After you sign in you will see Completed next to the FamilySearch icon. There is a little drop down arrow next to it.

Select "Compare person on FamilySearch"

Now you can select information you want to move back and forth. 

To change back and forth between "Old Ancestry" and "New Ancestry" click on your login name in the upper right corner of the website. Select either view to switch between. Every time I go from "New Ancestry" back to "Old Ancestry" I tell them I want the FamilySearch tools. Hopefully that is moving this request up their development que. 


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#29 alaskalady

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:08 PM

Here is now I keep my database in sync with Ancestry.

 

1. I uploaded a GEDCOM to Ancestry so it will provide me hints
2. Added new sources and info to Ancestry as I find records

3. In the "Old Ancestry" I send my information to FamilySearch Family Tree

4. In RootsMagic I retrieve the information from FamilySearch Family Tree sent from Ancestry.

 

When I made a change in RootsMagic this is how I change it on Ancestry

1. I send my changes to FamilySearch Family Tree

2. In Ancestry I will use the "Old Ancestry" view to sync my FSFT person's data to Ancestry.

 

Right now you have to use the "Old Ancestry" to sync with FamilySearch Family Tree. The "New Ancestry" doesn't have that option yet. I called their support and they are working on it. I think if more people called it would be a higher priority to them to get that feature added to "New Ancestry".

 

In Old Ancestry on the Person Profile page look for the "Sign in to FamilySearch" link next to the "Edit this person" and "Story View" buttons.

After you sign in you will see Completed next to the FamilySearch icon. There is a little drop down arrow next to it.

Select "Compare person on FamilySearch"

Now you can select information you want to move back and forth. 

To change back and forth between "Old Ancestry" and "New Ancestry" click on your login name in the upper right corner of the website. Select either view to switch between. Every time I go from "New Ancestry" back to "Old Ancestry" I tell them I want the FamilySearch tools. Hopefully that is moving this request up their development que. 

Thanks so very much for your suggestion, I never knew this option existed.  I have searched thru Roots Magic but I assumed the Family Search was linked to the LDS Family Search and although I have used them for years as a search tool, I do not participate in their Family Tree anymore.  I believe it is big mistake to let each other change other folks information.  I know I personally will not let someone else edit my tree although I love and appreciate getting corrections/additional info, I want to know their source before adding it to my database.  But I really appreciate knowing this feature exists and will definitely go check it out and give it a try,   Do you think they will keep the old veiw active very long, seems like I read somewhere on the ancestry site that it would not be available after a certain date.  I too, will help out by asking for this feature.  Thanks again!



#30 Renee Zamora

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:22 PM

There are several features in the "Old Ancestry" they need to add to the "New Ancestry". I doubt they would turn off "Old Ancestry" until they have everything in "New Ancestry". Otherwise they have a big support issue on their hands. 


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#31 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:07 PM

Another example is the SSDI, when it posts it posts the place last benefit received as the actual death place.  This may or may not be true so it should post as what it is.

 

It doesn't require ancestry.com software to make this error. Lot's of people make this same error all the time.

 

Jerry



#32 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:14 PM

For instance when a census attaches it posts the year as if it were the actual year of birth!  The year should be prefaced by "abt" because it is only and estimate, not a proven fact.   In my experience, census year are many times off a year either way because of when the census is done and the persons birthday falls.

 

Again, it doesn't require ancestry.com software to encounter this error. People make the same error all the time. And the problem is way more serious than just the "census was before or after the birthday" problem. Ages in the census can be seriously in error - sometimes by several years. It's especially instructive if you can find the occasional family who was enumerated twice in the same census because they moved. Sometimes the enumerations were only weeks apart. The ages for the family members between the two enumerations often differ very greatly - much more than by just one year - even though it's the same census enumeration.

 

Jerry



#33 alaskalady

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:23 PM

 

Again, it doesn't require ancestry.com software to encounter this error. People make the same error all the time. And the problem is way more serious than just the "census was before or after the birthday" problem. Ages in the census can be seriously in error - sometimes by several years. It's especially instructive if you can find the occasional family who was enumerated twice in the same census because they moved. Sometimes the enumerations were only weeks apart. The ages for the family members between the two enumerations often differ very greatly - much more than by just one year - even though it's the same census enumeration.

 

Jerry

Oh, I agree.  I have seen exactly what you're talking about.  Any info I enter from a census is done with an abt or possibly in front of it.  *grin*   Also, I have seen death certificates with one year and tombstone with another.   All of us are human and there will always be errors no matter how careful we try to be







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