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Productivity Discussion for current and future versions

productivity places sources citations research manager place details media gallery reporting

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#1 Vyger

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 07:00 AM

I posted on a recent thread which brought back memories of old clickiness discussions and wishes of years gone by and I do hope the Rootsmagician has productivity and a flatter interface structure in mind for the all new Rootsmagic 8. The thread I posted on was partly regarding the current need to paste any memorized source citation to each fact it refers to rather than providing a multi selection assignment rather like that of Family Search so that is my first suggestion for increased productivity and less clicks.

 

One thing I see as a great productivity improvement and the Rootsmagician describes as "a little quickie" and "a little fun thing" is the ability to drag and drop Media into Media Gallery. It appears at 1:03:33 in What's New in Rootsmagic 7 and allows multi selection of media to be dragged into what would by default probably be the Person Media Gallery with following adjustment of the Tags or selecting the appropriate Media Gallery prior to the drag and drop. This is much quicker that the previous long winded method of attaching media and a very welcome addition.

 

However, to prevent Media just being dragged into the Person Media Gallery and left there when it possibly should be tagged to a fact I would suggest this operation also brings up a tagging selection to conclude the additions allowing the user to select General Media or whatever other facts exist.

 

So a really innovative addition to program functionality and media management for me maybe just needing a little tweak to prevent people rushing through linking media to regret how it is Tagged later on.

 


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#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:37 PM

However, to prevent Media just being dragged into the Person Media Gallery and left there when it possibly should be tagged to a fact I would suggest this operation also brings up a tagging selection to conclude the additions allowing the user to select General Media or whatever other facts exist.

 

I can see that working if you drag only one photo in at a time, but you can drag 100's at a time over into the media gallery.


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#3 Vyger

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 04:55 PM

I can see that working if you drag only one photo in at a time, but you can drag 100's at a time over into the media gallery.

 

I did foresee that as a problem but it would be nice to ensure proper tagging at the time of adding. So often tasks like this can be left "to come back to" in the rush to complete only to be remembered years further on when they become a problem.


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#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 12:38 PM

I wonder if tagging all those photos might overwhelm people. Would it be better to have a way to tell afterwards which media has not been tagged. Then people can drag n drop all their media and simply create media tags at their leisure. 


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#5 TomH

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 12:53 PM

Filtering the Media Gallery for untagged items would be a good enhancement. As would filtering on other things, such as a string in the name or in the path or in the caption, description; by type; by date added; by file date modified; other things that others might suggest...

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#6 Vyger

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 08:18 AM

I wonder if tagging all those photos might overwhelm people. Would it be better to have a way to tell afterwards which media has not been tagged. Then people can drag n drop all their media and simply create media tags at their leisure. 

Filtering the Media Gallery for untagged items would be a good enhancement. As would filtering on other things, such as a string in the name or in the path or in the caption, description; by type; by date added; by file date modified; other things that others might suggest...

 

For the record I agree with both these comments, whilst easy ways to do thinks are very welcome they tend to lead to sloppiness unless some way is provided to to back and chip away at completing the work accurately.


“Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” -Bill Gates

 

 

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#7 Vyger

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 08:32 AM

Renee, I know I posted this elsewhere but I would like to add it under this productivity related thread.

 

I, and many others, find it tedious after maybe entering several facts from the same source to have to open the Citation Manager for each individual fact and Paste. Maybe rather that a Memorize and Paste button on Citation Manager have a Paste To button which would open a multi selection screen of the remaining person events speeding this operation greatly. The sort of thing I refer to is similar to what gets presented when transferring sources to Family Search and it would also make the operation CE and more familiar all users.

 

sourcepaste.png


“Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” -Bill Gates

 

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.5.8, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5 (in order of preference)

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:38 AM

The functionality that Vyger is describing would be extremely helpful. It wouldn't avoid having to open up each person to which you wanted to paste a memorized citation, but it would certainly avoid having to open up each fact.

 

In fact, this kind of display could be very helpful in a different way. Suppose you are using RM Explorer to find instances of a particular citation, and suppose you do something like Find -> Any Fact Source -> Footnote Contains -> (some text of interest). I find that I do a lot of that kind of searching while cleaning up my old lumped sources and making them into split sources. But I could see why a lot of users might want to do that kind of a search. In fact, I actually search on Any Fact Source -> Footnote Contains -> (some text of interest) OR Source (General) -> Footnote Contains -> (some text of interest). The problem after the search stops on a person is then finding the fact or facts with the citation in question. A display like the one Vyger presents could solve this problem very nicely.

 

I do realize that you can go into Lists -> Sources and print a report of all the citations for a source, but such a report is not at all integrated into something like RM Explorer that lets you get to particular people to edit them.

 

Jerry

 



#9 TomH

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:52 AM

I would add that it would be akin to the Media tag concept, i.e., that a citation is a "tag" for a master source. Thus selecting a source in the Citation Manager which one can open from many trails through the UI would also show the other "source tags" for that source and permit "tagging the source" to other objects in the database, just as one can for Media tags.


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#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:29 AM

I would add that it would be akin to the Media tag concept, i.e., that a citation is a "tag" for a master source. 

 

I agree that it's very much akin to the Media tag concept, but wouldn't it be a citation that's being tagged rather than a Master Source? (well, unless you are an extreme splitter!  ^_^ )

 

Actually, "tagging" citations to individuals and to facts would, I think, require some pretty significant but useful changes to the way the source and citation tables work. Which is to say, if you memorize and paste a citation, RM does not simply make a "link" of some kind between the memorized citation and the object to which the citation is being pasted. Rather, it makes an identical copy of the citation and it's the identical copy that's "linked" to the object to which the citation is being pasted. This is very different than the way, for example, that Places and Place Details work where under normal operations Places and Place Details are not duplicated just because they are used multiple times.

 

The significant and useful changes to the way the source and citation tables work in turn ought to make some useful improvements to the way the user interface appears to the user. For example (and to keep things really simple), let's suppose you have many citations for page 12 of a particular book and that you are using the Free Form source template. Suppose that in the Details part of your citation you say "p.12" without the quotes and that you memorize and past the citation many times. Then, suppose that for stylistic reasons you want to change all the occurrences of "p.12" without the quotes to "page 12" without the quotes. As things stand, you have to find and change every single citation. This is the issue that finally drove me to becoming an extreme source splitter. With the tagging concept, you should be able to make the change only one time even though it's in the Details part of the citation.

 

Jerry



#11 Renee Zamora

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:39 AM

Confirming enhancement requests are in our tracking system.


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#12 TomH

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 11:28 AM

 

I agree that it's very much akin to the Media tag concept, but wouldn't it be a citation that's being tagged rather than a Master Source? (well, unless you are an extreme splitter!  ^_^ )

Yes, I forked the discussion in a way. A Citation is related to a Source in much the same way as a Media Tag (back when it was known as a Media Link) is related to a Media item. Remember the disruption between RM4 and RM5 when Media Tags were introduced? Formerly, the Caption, Description, Date... were stored in the MediaLinkTable (think CitationTable) and the MultiMediaTable (think SourceTable) contained the path and filename, Now Caption, Description et al are in the "Master Media" but the Media Tags defining how the media item is used remain in the MediaLinkTable (and fields for tag-specific caption, description et al remain in it, unused).

 

If opening a Media Album or the Gallery can show all the Media Tags for the selected item in the right pane, then I see no reason why opening the Citation Manager should not show all the Source Tags (Citations) in a similar pane on the right and continue to show the details of the selected Citation (Source Tag) on the bottom. And, as for Media Tagging, allow the addition of further Source Tags (Citations). No change required in database structure.

 

Citation Tags as introduced in the prior messages are different and would require a change in structure and may be more complicated to implement.


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#13 Laura

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 01:29 PM

For the one census Master source I did a report for, I had 30 pages of source citations on the Source list report with just the Citation details checked..

I don't know that I want to scroll down 30 pages worth of Source details in a right pane to see or delete a tag or in the Master source column or Source text/Comments column of the Citation Manager screen.

There would almost have to be a search for source details.

#14 Holm D T

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 01:42 PM

Is is possible now or in latter version to just see all media for one person?

I have two data bases one private  (know one sees or knows about) the other public that I do post online and give to family.  It would be nice to sync the two. so private as all and public has most.



#15 TomH

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:56 PM

For the one census Master source I did a report for, I had 30 pages of source citations on the Source list report with just the Citation details checked..I don't know that I want to scroll down 30 pages worth of Source details in a right pane to see or delete a tag or in the Master source column or Source text/Comments column of the Citation Manager screen.There would almost have to be a search for source details.

in my vision, you would see exactly what you see now in Citation Manager plus the list of all the "tags" of that source in the added panel, the currently selected citation highlighted in the list of tags.

Yes, 30 pages of citations would result in a long tag list but the same thing can happen with Media Tags, e.g., a family reunion photo. That it may become unwieldy for those situations does not make it unhelpful for all others. It is just a list box and a Search control would be a good adjunct.

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#16 Laura

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 08:08 PM

Tagging a reunion photo to multiple people would be an exception for video.

Source details of many pages would not unless a user is an extreme splitter like Jerry. And, the census source I printed is not by any way the source I have with the most Source details linked to it.

My census Master sources are by Census year, State, County, NARA number.

How many Source details might a user have linked to a Master source when their Census Master source is just the census year and everything else is entered in the Source detail?

Another consideration I have is how long will it take to print that list of Source details.

When I print a Source list report, the more linked Source details the longer it takes for RM to compile the report.

I am nor going to be happy if I have to wait for the list to be compiled every time I highlight a Master source on the Citation Manager screen.

Or, I have to wait for RM to compile the list for every linked Master source on that Citation Manager screen.

#17 TomH

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:25 PM

Those are all valid performance concerns, Laura, which can be addressed by design. To get 1 or 1000 results from a given SQLite database does not take very much different times. What can be proportional is the post-query processing and display. Limiting the query to 50 or some other reasonable number puts a cap on the time taken. And maybe that is a threshold of unwieldiness.

Do you not see any advantage to being able to, from within the Citation Manager, see other citations of the selected source, copy any of those citations to some other person-fact, add citations of that source to other people-facts?

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#18 Vyger

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:05 AM

in my vision, you would see exactly what you see now in Citation Manager plus the list of all the "tags" of that source in the added panel, the currently selected citation highlighted in the list of tags.

 

 

It is no secret that RM8 will be a complete re-write and maybe a completely new look for all of us to get used to. I would imagine that will be followed by supporters and discenters but FO/RM has grown greatly in available features over the years and these has become fragmented within the program to the detriment of productivity.

 

I would hope Bruce takes this opportunity to resolve that fragmentation issue by bringing all associated datasets together under new enhanced UI's, lets face it we no longer live in the '90s and I would doubt any of us are using 800x600 displays so I believe this is the opportunity to move with the times.

 

Source Manager: Should be on a new or enhanced UI with at least a direct route to Source Templates if not incorporated in the same window. To please all maybe the option of displaying Citations in a pane would be best and ideally with some form of filtering incorporated. Personally sources would not be my niche so I am sure some other visionary could come up with a dream source manager to cover all the angles.

 

Place Manager: Bringing together all the place related features together under one UI with an embeded map is long overdue IMO, this would simplify the program, by doing away with many existing menu options like Rootsmagic Mapping. I won't go on further as I have done so many times in the past.

 

Research Manager: Important and welcome addition to Rootsmagic but Correspondence, Address, Repositories and To-Do items need to be linked and catered for within the one UI and brought into the scope of Find Everywhere.

 

I have often thought the ability to Tag individuals mentioned within correspondence would be a useful addition, at present this is not possible nor is the correspondence list searchable. To overcome the lact of search functionality I use one of my few custom facts "Email" and paste emails there including the return address and subject. The problem is this is still attached essentially to an individual and even if it was stored within Research Manager it can still only be tagged to one person.

 

Whilst writing this and flicking through menus I got thinking about reports and how that feature might be enhanced within a single UI, but that's for another day.


“Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.” -Bill Gates

 

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.5.8, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5 (in order of preference)

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#19 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:46 AM

 

Research Manager: Important and welcome addition to Rootsmagic but Correspondence, Address, Repositories and To-Do items need to be linked and catered for within the one UI and brought into the scope of Find Everywhere.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me for RM8 to include improvements for managing research such as you describe. And I'm sure that such improvements would be welcomed and well received by the RM community.

 

However, unless the integration were to be extremely well done, I'm afraid that the development effort would be lost on me. For example, could research data be searched from RM Explorer? Could research data become columns in People View or in Custom Reports? I already accomplish such things with user defined facts, and I'm extremely pleased with the results. Also, user defined defined facts tend to be much more portable to third party software than do things like Correspondence logs, address lists, To-Do items, research logs, and the like.

 

On the question of email, I also have a user defined fact called email. I enter each correspondent into my database, even if as it sometimes happens that I'm not really related to them. I attach the emails to them. But more importantly, I also convert the emails into extremely split Master Sources that are cited as needed. I copy and paste the text of the email into the Note for the email fact and into the Source Text for the Master Source, and I also retain the email as an EML file which is linked into RM's Media Gallery and to the extremely split Master Source for the email. The EML file retains all the original formatting and attachments associated with the email. The use of EML files requires using an email client rather than a browser. I use the free client from Microsoft called Windows Live Mail.

 

Jerry



#20 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:50 AM

Source Manager: Should be on a new or enhanced UI with at least a direct route to Source Templates if not incorporated in the same window. 

 

AND, bring up media associated with the source to the forefront of the screen as well. Media for sources is seriously deeply buried right now.

 

Jerry