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#1 Phil Irons

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:05 PM

I don't know if this is the appropriate place for this particular bug, but here goes anyway.

 

When I first open RM7, I am the Home Person, and so my family immediately shows up.  My daughter lived and worked for a time in the US, and moved back to Canada about 14 years ago.  However, the My Heritage tip still shows her as being a resident of Massachusetts!  Of course, My Heritage wants $ 9.95/mo to reject this info.  Ain't gonna happen!

 

Any suggestions?

 

TIA

 

Phil in NS


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#2 TomH

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:24 PM

Ignore it. Disable MyHeritage from the WebHints settings. It is pretty useless unless you subscribe. FamilySearch, though is free, although it may direct you to MyHeritage or Ancestry for lots of records for which you will have to subscribe to be able to get.


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#3 ennoborg

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 08:53 AM

Indeed, and for continental Europeans it's even useless when you subscribe, because most source records for this area are free on FamilySearch. And I don't plan to pay a ransom fee to correct errors made by cousins that actually pay for the My Heritage privilege.

 

And Phil, think of it, if you can see your daughter's residence, albeit wrong, anyone else can see it too. I see names of live relatives in matches, some of which I sent to one cousin, which were then copied by other paying MH members, meaning that I see a large privacy problem, which I never intended to occur. My surname is quite rare, so in many cases, Borgsteede relatives can be uniquely identified by name, which most probably is against our (European) privacy laws.



#4 Renee Zamora

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:15 AM

If you daughter lived at one time in Massachusetts then its part of Public Records. It will show all the places she once lived. If a new location in the US has not been added to the public records then it will show she still lives at the Massachusetts address. Just because she is now living in Canada does not make this information incorrect. Think of it like a census record when it  is incorrect. The records are only as good as the person providing the information.

 

MyHeritage is not charging anyone a ransom fee to correct errors. This information is part of Public Records and they have purchased the database so they can provide it to their users. If you go on the internet you will see this public records database is out there for anyone to purchase on their own. The privacy issue is not with MyHeritage its an wider issue with the whole internet and what is considered public record. Information is added when you do things like sign up for a utility service, get a library card or pay any kind of bill.  I really appreciate being able to see what is in the public records for others to view. I wouldn't want MyHeritage to remove it because then I would have to pay elsewhere to see what others can pay to see. I want to know what information is out there on me on the internet. I may not like it but there is no way to remove it once its out there. The smart thing to do is put a fraud alert on your credit bureau report so people cannot be so quick on stealing your identity. 

 

That said I wouldn't upload an tree to a website with living people's information exposed. Family members will accuse you of the privacy invasion even if it is part of Public Records. Keeping that in your own database is best.


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#5 anzenketh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:38 AM

 The privacy issue is not with MyHeritage its an wider issue with the whole internet and what is considered public record. Information is added when you do things like sign up for a utility service, get a library card or pay any kind of bill.  I really appreciate being able to see what is in the public records for others to view. I wouldn't want MyHeritage to remove it because then I would have to pay elsewhere to see what others can pay to see. I want to know what information is out there on me on the internet. I may not like it but there is no way to remove it once its out there. The smart thing to do is put a fraud alert on your credit bureau report so people cannot be so quick on stealing your identity. 

 

This is why security experts recommend not using the following information for security questions. Security experts actually tell you to lie on Security Questions or make a question up(basically a second password):

 

1.) Name

2.) Relatives names(especially mothers maiden name)

3.) Birth date

4.) Places of residence.

5.) Or any other information that can be found by Google. If you use social networks that would be quite a lot.

 

This is also why Google no longer supports security questions as a method of recovering your account. 

 

https://support.goog...er/183723?hl=en

 

It is not a privacy violation due to it is a matter of public record. Information created is from information obtained by the government agencies (local,state,and federal).



#6 Renee Zamora

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:46 AM

I agree with this advice, but unfortunately for me my mother's maiden has been used for years before the internet was even around. Now its part of public records. Now i'm finding I'm having a hard time remembering where I used the real one or the fake one. Ugh!  I just hope my descendants will be smarter about these things that I was.


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#7 ennoborg

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:57 AM

In my case the privacy issue is with My Heritage. We don't have the type of public records that you have in North America, and the name of my sister is not in such record. It's in the phone book, but there it's not related to my name, or my mother's, not even the name of my late father. In other words, it is a privacy violation here, because our laws forbid the disclosure of information that's unique enough to identify someone. My close relatives' full names are hence protected by law.

 

I must add that the issue is NOT with RootsMagic. It only shows on the My Heritage site itself, so they are responsible. They claim that they keep uploaded data private, where in reality they don't, at least not enough by our laws. And in a way I should thank RootsMagic for reminding me. I need to take up that issue with My Heritage or local privacy organizations, not with you.

 

Note that my use of the word ransom is legitimate. As Dutch citizens we have a right to look at data that is stored about us, and have it corrected, and a fee like it is asked by My Heritage, which must be paid for a year in advance (!), is an unreasonable obstacle to that right, and hence illegal.



#8 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:47 PM

I tend to argue with myself and contradict myself with respect to the myheritage site and others like it. Many aspects of it feel - well, bad. (I had some stronger words in mind than "bad", but chose not to use them). On the other hand, I decided to subscribe to see what would happen and i'm finding a good bit of excellent information. By excellent information, I mean actual source data - not just somebody else's unsourced tree. I was a little distressed to discover that I had to subscribe for a full year instead on a monthly basis, just to try it out. But so be it for now.

 

What I haven't been able to figure out is what it means to confirm a match on myheritage. With familysearch, I figured out fairly quickly that RM is matching against the community tree and familysearch itself is doing the matching between the community tree and source records such as census and death records. Confirming a match on familysearch means that a possible match between an individual in the community tree and a source record is correct and should be confirmed. Nothing is really being confirmed about anything in RM.

 

In the case of myheritage, I can't figure out if RM is matching against trees (there are multiple trees in myheritage by comparison with the community tree on familysearch), matching against records, or matching against both. And if I were to confirm a match (I haven't confirmed any yet), I don' know what I'm confirming. Am I confirming that my record in RM matches something in myheritage? Am I confirming that a tree in myheritage matches a record in myheritage? Or what? I do know that RM is creating a .DUP file to track my activity in myheritage, whereas RM doesn't appear to be tracking any of my activity in familysearch at all. All the tracking of my activity in familysearch seems to take place in familysearch.

 

I hope that somebody figures out how myheritage really works and posts the information, or maybe that Bruce will tell us in a webinar.

 

Jerry



#9 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 01:32 PM

https://familysearch...sked-questions/

 

So there is a partnership between familysearch and myheritage. That has to be why (or at least partly why) when RM7 came out with WebHints for familysearch that it also came out with WebHints for myheritage.

 

Armed with this new knowledge, I have a theory about how RM works with myheritage. (Neither I nor anybody else should have to have theories about how these things work. How they work is not rocket science, and explaining how they work is not rocket science. Why can't they just explain how they work, very simply and in plain English?)

 

My theory is that since myheritage has access to the familysearch community tree, and since RM7 seems to be matching to the familysearch community tree to create WebHints for familytree, RM7 is probably also matching to the familysearch community tree to create WebHints for myheritage. Except that RM7 is probably not going through familysearch to get to the familysearch community tree to create WebHints for myheritage. Rather, RM7 is probably going through myheritage to get to the familysearch community tree to create WebHints for myheritage.

 

In any case, with familysearch the only thing you can do is to confirm a familysearch record to an individual in the familysearch community tree. My theory is that on the myheritage side of the house, you can confirm a myheritage record to an individual in the familysearch community tree, and you can also confirm an individual from a personal myheritage tree to an individual in the familysearch community tree.

 

I am concerned that this theory may be completely wrong, but it's hard to figure out any other way it could work. On the familysearch side of the house, things become very transparent once you go from RM7 into the familysearch site. You are taken to an individual in the community tree and you are shown possible record matches. RM7 is out of the loop as far as the matching. When you confirm a match, it's very clear what is being matched against what. But on the myheritage site, there is no such transparency and the site doesn't give you any clue as to what is being matched against what. So my theory that what's really being matched is a myheritage record or an individual from a myheritage tree against the familysearch community tree, it truly is a bit of a wild guess. I still want to know for sure before I confirm any matches on myheritage.

 

Jerry



#10 RonB

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 01:53 PM

As a My Heritage subscriber, I can say with some assurance that My Heritage is not pulling information from Family Search.  My reason for saying this is that I have received matches from My Heritage for information that is definitely not available from Family Search.  My Heritage may have their own access to some of the same databases that Family Search also has access to, but I don't really follow your logic or how you have come to the conclusion the My Heritage is just accessing the information that is on Family Search?



#11 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:04 PM

Well, the article does say that familysearch and myheritage are exchanging information.

 

I probably didn't explain things as well as I could have, and I certainly could be wrong. But let's come at this from a different direction.

 

Let's just suppose you are logged onto the myheritage site and that you are not using RM at all. You can put a personal tree on myheritage, and you can get matches between your personal tree and the rest of the myheritage site. As I understand it (still being pretty new to the myheritage site), two kinds of matching are available.

  1. individuals in your personal tree can be matched against records which are stored in myheritage
  2. individuals in your personal tree can be matched against individuals that are in personal trees belong to other myheritage users

myheritage finds these matches for you and suggests them to you. You can confirm the matches or reject the matches. Information about your confirmations and rejections has to be stored on the myheritage site rather than on your local computer. So far, so good (I think!).

 

Now here comes the complication. Instead of logging on to myheritage and creating a personal tree, I come into myheritage from RM. For all this matching stuff to work, I do have to have an account at myheritage. But apparently I don't have to have a personal tree on myheritage for the matching to work because I get the matches even though I don't have a personal tree. And it's not just the initial matching that has to work. It's the recording of my confirmations and rejections of the matches. But how does that work when I don't have a tree on the site to match against? That's where I was introducing the familysearch community tree into the mix as a possible matching point, especially after I read that familysearch and myheritage were exchanging data.

 

But as I think about it, you are probably right that the familysearch community tree probably doesn't have anything to do with it. I can think of two other possibilities. One possibility is that somehow or other myheritage is using the API to take the information about the matched individuals from my RM database and storing the information on the myheritage site - basically building a personal tree for me behind the scenes on the site as a place to store the matching information. The other possibility is that somehow or other myheritage is using the API to push the information about the matched individuals back into my RM database and that's what goes into the .DUP file that is created by RM when you use myheritage.

 

In any case, the matching information has to be stored somewhere. And in any case, you are on the myheritage site doing the confirming and rejecting of the match suggestions, not in RM. So it's the site that's initiating the storing of the match information rather than RM, no matter where the storing is taking place.

 

Jerry



#12 ennoborg

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:16 PM

Jerry, you are right. The information is stored somewhere on My Heritage, and as far as I know the only way to get it to your desktop is to have some tree over there, or maybe build one on the fly. Then, you can copy information to persons in your tree, create new ones from matches, and add source information, much like that works on Ancestry, if you've ever tried that. I ran a couple of free trials on My Heritage to see how the process works.

 

As a RootsMagic user, you're then in the same position as you are with a tree created and modified on Ancestry, meaning that the only way to get the information back into RootsMagic is either the advised copy paste, or to download a GEDCOM with the new information from the site, then import and merge. That's way more complicated than the synchronization of data and sources between RootsMagic and FamilySearch.


Edited by ennoborg, 12 December 2014 - 03:17 PM.


#13 anzenketh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:37 PM

MyHeritage is telling RootsMagic what hints are accepted and rejected this information is not stored in RootsMagic but in MyHeritage. Same with FamilySearch. There is no tree in MyHeritage database but it is doing a search and applying it's record matching technologies to the search query.  The accepting and denying of a hint is stored on their MyHeritage servers. They tie the vital information on the accepted hints together to create a individual. It needs to collect what records are accepted and rejected in MyHeritage so it can improve it's confidence on what records are truly for a given individual. This information is stored on their servers. 

 

I could see them in the future working on some sort of sync feature with Rootsmagic similar to what Ancestry.com does with Family Tree Maker and  as RootsMagic already does with FamilySearch. This will free up their resources to focus on their site and not considerate on a substandard genealogy program that they currently offer for free.

 

The Partnership with FamilySearch has a lot to do with the following: 

 

1.) It is possible that FamilySearch hint feature is actually MyHeritage code only tweaked for FamilySearch records. 

2.) FamilySearch in exchange provides access to records under the agreement. 

 

There is a similar record sharing project with Ancestry.com. Only this is just record sharing. 

https://familysearch.org/node/2521

 

There is also this partnership that may be a contributing factor. Then again this may be just a money deal. 

https://familysearch...earch-partners/



#14 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:17 PM

MyHeritage is telling RootsMagic what hints are accepted and rejected this information is not stored in RootsMagic but in MyHeritage. 

 

Yes, this is correct. Mea culpa.

 

I just did a bunch more testing. I misunderstood what was going on with the .DUP file. The .DUP file only has to do with looking for duplicates inside of RM, just like always. It has nothing to do with WebHints for myheritage.

 

I created a single person RM database where I knew the one person would have a hint in myheritage. I accepted the hint in myheritage and then deleted the one person RM database. Subsequently, the hint for that person showed up in my main RM database as accepted without me having to do anything to make  it happen. Then, I recreated another one person RM database with the same person. Once again, the hint  showed up in this one person RM database as accepted without me having to do anything to make it happen. So myheritage remembered that the hint was accepted.

 

I'm still puzzled about what is being matched to what. My test hint was to an SSDI entry. So that SSDI entry was a hint that matched something. What did it match? Well, it matched the information in my RM database. But my database is on my PC desktop, I deleted my database, and the match persisted. How can that be? You suggest that myheritage "creates an individual". Where is that individual? It's obviously on the myheritage servers, but where? Is the individual stored in something that's an analog of familysearch's community tree? The individual is certainly not stored in my myheritage tree because I don't have a myheritage tree. And I checked myheritage's Smart Matches and Record Matches. I don't have any. Is it possible to see this mysterious "individual". He doesn't show up in a search.

 

Jerry



#15 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:00 PM

One other little tidbit on this issue. After I have logged on to the myheritage web site and confirmed that a myheritage hint for a record is a match, the myheritage hint shows up as confirmed in RM even if I'm not logged on to myheritage at all - for example, if I have no browser windows open at all. This really reinforces the question of how this is all working.

 

As a reminder, I have no personal tree at myheritage at all, and RM is not storing my myheritage account number and password at all. And myheritage does not seem to have the concept of a community tree as does familysearch. All myheritage has is personal trees for each user. So myheritage is somehow or other remembering that the hint is confirmed, even though the match is between a record at myheritage and data on my PC's desktop, and even though I'm not in any way logged on to myheritage.

 

It's almost like there is a community tree that's completely invisible so that you can't see it, and that it's that's being constructed by myheritage any time you confirm a hint. I can't find anything in any of the documentation that's at the myheritage web site that addresses this issue. If I logon to the myheritage web site without using RM and if I create a personal tree, then it's very clear that the hints and their confirmations are associated with my personal tree. But I'm still totally puzzled about how this works when I don't have a personal tree at myheritage to which hint confirmations can be attached.

 

It does appear as if other RM users can see my hint confirmations. That is, if I use RM without being logged on to myheritage, then I see the hint confirmations. But since I'm not logged on and since RM doesn't have my myheritage account and password information, myheritage can't tell if I'm the user who posted the hint confirmation or not. Hence, all users must be able to see my confirmations even though I don't have a personal tree at myheritage.

 

Sorry to be beating this to death. But if myheritage is storing my hint confirmations in an invisible community tree, then it has to be storing information from my RM database on myheritage servers that I didn't explicity tell it to store. That's what I'm trying to figure out. In the case of familysearch, I finanally convinced myself that no data from my database was being harvested just because I was looking at hints. Which is to say, in the case of familysearch the individual in the community tree and the record to which individual in the community tree are being matched are both already there. And the hint is already there. All I'm doing is confirming that the hint is correct. But in the case of myheritage, it looks like the only thing that's already there is the record. The individual is not already there in myheritage because the individual is in my local copy of RM. And the hint conformation is not being stored in RM. Rather, the hint confirmation is being stored at myheritage. So it looks to me as if the only way this can work is for myheritage to store the data about the individual that is in my RM database as a part of the hint confirmation record on the myheritage servers.

 

The myheritage web site obviously has access to this data from my RM database when I'm confirming a hint. The reason I know this is that you can see my data at the myheritage site on the hint confirmation screen. And it's on the myheritage hint confirmation screen even though I don't have a tree at myheritage. So the API is obviously passing it through. And in order to keep a record of the hint confirmation, myheritage must be making some sort of permanent record of the data that was passed to from my RM database by the API.

 

Jerry



#16 TomH

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:48 PM

...in order to keep a record of the hint confirmation, myheritage must be making some sort of permanent record of the data that was passed to from my RM database by the API.

I agree with your conclusion, Jerry, not that I have explored very much. I think that all that might be stored at MyHeritage is the Unique ID from RootsMagic that it generates for each person in the database. It need only associate that UID with the record hinted once it is confirmed. Then subsequent checks in RootsMagic of hints would readily return all the confirmed hints.
 
Try this: 
 
Export a person with a confirmed hint to the simplest of GEDCOMs. Delete all the events, sources - even change the name - but keep the 1 _UID line. Import that to a new database. What do you see? A confirmed hint. Without the right _UID, nothing.

Edited by TomH, 13 December 2014 - 09:34 PM.

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#17 anzenketh

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 07:20 PM

If you rename your database it asks for you to accept the hints again if I remember correctly from what I have been doing. 



#18 TomH

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 07:43 PM

If you rename your database it asks for you to accept the hints again if I remember correctly from what I have been doing.

That is incorrect according to the test I reported in the prior message. The person with the confirmed hint in MyHeritage records was exported to GEDCOM, her name was changed there, imported to a new database with a different database name and the same hint appeared there, confirmed. Repeating that but also deleting the UID from the GEDCOM resulted in no hint at all. Her name in both cases was changed to "This is Surname", not likely to be found in any record.

 

The MyHeritage page that opened from the confirmed hint showed my person "This is Surname" on the left (the temporary info sent with the UID) and nothing else because the person had no gender, family, events but the Record Match shown was the very same census record for the original "Mary C Alexander". 

The hidden, RootsMagic generated UID is the key to connecting confirmed hints back to a person. Lose or change the UID and there is no connection. Every time a person is added to a RootsMagic database, a UID is generated for that person, unless there is a _UID tag in the source GEDCOM (and, probably, the GEDCOM says it was generated by RootsMagic). Drag'n'drop carries the UID across to the target database.


Edited by TomH, 13 December 2014 - 09:40 PM.

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#19 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 12:29 PM

The hidden, RootsMagic generated UID is the key to connecting confirmed hints back to a person. 

 

I think Tom has totally answered the question. My suspicion that MyHeritage is maintaining a hidden community tree on its web site to which it is confirming hints is obviously not correct. Instead, it apparently is maintaining a hidden file of Rootsmagic generated UID's on its Web site to which it is confirming hints.

 

You don't have to be logged on to MyHeritage nor even to have a MyHeritage account to see confirmed hints from RM. In order to see confirmed WebHints from your RM, the Rootsmagic generated UID in your database has to match the UID that was saved on the MyHeritage Web site when the hint was confirmed.  You can't see the confirmed WebHints from the MyHeritage web site itself.

 

After seeing Tom's message, I did the following to test the WebHint process. I created a confirmed WebHint at MyHeritage. In order to create a confirmed WebHint, there had to be a WebHint to confirm. That meant that the data in my RM database had to be close enough to match the data in MyHeritage. And to do the confirmation, I had to have a MyHeritage account and logon. I then ran the following tests in addition to the tests Tom has already described.

  • Exported a GEDCOM containing only the one individual with the confirmed MyHeritage WebHint, and imported the GEDCOM into a new, empty database. The WebHint appeared for the individual in the new database, and it appeared as confirmed. Note that RM's GEDCOM export/import process from one RM database to another does retain the RM generated UID which is why the WebHint appeared as confirmed in the new database with no further ado.
  • Created a new, dummy person in the RM database that I just created, so that the new database now had two people. Merged the new, dummy person with the person with the confirmed WebHint. The dummy person was the person on the left side of the manual merge screen. Moved the name information for the individual from the Alt Name fact to replace the name of the dummy person and deleted the Alt Name fact. So everything about the person was the same as it originally was except that it had a different UID. There was now a WebHint for the person, but the WebHint was not confirmed because the UID was different.
  • Deleted the temporary database, and created another new, empty database. Imported again the GEDCOM containing only the one person with a a confirmed MyHeritage WebHint. Changed everything about the person in the new database - name, birth, death, etc. - everything except the RM generated UID. You can't change the UID directly anyway from within RM. The only way to change the UID from within RM is to merge the individual with another person, and for the other person to be on the left side of the manual merge screen. At this point, the totally changed person still had a confirmed match in MyHeritage with the previous person, even though all the data had completely changed. That's because the UID had not changed. This is basically one of the tests that Tom reported previously.
  • Deleted the temporary database, and created another new, empty database. Edited the GEDCOM containing only the one person with the confirmed WebHint, and changed the UID in the GEDCOM. Imported the GEDCOM into the new, empty database. There was a WebHint at MyHeritage for the person because the data was a close enough match. But the WebHint was not confirmed because the UID had changed
  • I have not performed this test, but I'm sure that if I sent a GEDCOM to another RM user and if they imported it, that Webhints I had confirmed would appear as confirmed to the other RM user. Indeed, I could even confirm a WebHint after sending them the GEDCOM and they would see the WebHint as confirmed. And conversely, having imported my GEDCOM they could confirm a WebHint for one of the people they imported and I would see the WebHint as confirmed.

 

Jerry



#20 ennoborg

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 04:47 PM

Nice work! It explains why I see confirmed hints, even though RootsMagic doesn't know my My Heritage credentials.

 

One thing is not fully clear to me though, which is what My Heritage does with the person data itself. A matching process can't work on a _UID alone, so to run the matching process, there must be person data being sent from RootsMagic to compare against. That is especially true when new source records or trees are added to My Heritage itself.