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#21 Laura

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 03:47 AM

Did you as Renee advised above and call Support so rhe can try to help you?

 

RootsMafgc can't fix anything if it is RootsMagic's fault if they don't know whar needs to be fixed.



#22 RuthA

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 04:02 AM

I have been posting my problems with backups since the program was released.  I will just be repeating myself.  As I've said before, I am not a technician, just an end user. 

 

One thing is that RM7 is trying to back up to the wrong file.  It tries to find c:\Users\Ruth\Google Drive\Roots Magic backup.  I have now nominated a new file in the Folders options : c:\Users\Ruth\RM7 backup but it ignores this and tries to find the other file - of course, it fails as the file no longer exists as it was created for RM6.



#23 lighthouse

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 04:24 AM

Look.  This is getting really silly.  I am not a beta tester for this program - I purchased the upgrade from RM7 in the belief that it would work!  It doesn't.  It's now up to the programmers to fix it.  I don't see why a paying customer should do the work for them!  I have to see I am very, very disappointed as I thought Roots Magic would be my TMG alternative.  Seems I was wrong.

RuthA did you do Jerry's thoughts, that should tell you where your backup is going as we all do.

 

From Jerry Quote "Here are some things to check. When you force the backup to happen with File->Backup, it will show you where it's planning to put the backup. Does this location correspond to where you think the backup is supposed to be going? If you do the backup operation a second time, do you get the message that says a backup with this name already exists? You should get this message if the previous backup succeeded." end of Quote



#24 RuthA

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 04:52 AM

I get a splash screen asking me where to backup to - it is pointing to the folder I have nominated in my Folders options.  Then I get an error message telling me that it can't find the file and that RM has prepared an error message for me to send - I can elect Yes or No.  That's it.    I have told RM7 where to put my backups - it ignores that instruction.  The only time it does complete a satisfactory backup is when the file I am using has been restored from a previous backup.  It won't back up "new" files that contain imported data via GEDCOM or directly from a TMG project.



#25 Vyger

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:12 AM

Look.  This is getting really silly.  I am not a beta tester for this program - I purchased the upgrade from RM7 in the belief that it would work!  It doesn't.  It's now up to the programmers to fix it.  I don't see why a paying customer should do the work for them!  I have to see I am very, very disappointed as I thought Roots Magic would be my TMG alternative.  Seems I was wrong.

 

Unfortunately it seems modern program providers are happy to ignore effective beta testing and expect their paying customers to accept that burden, Rootsmagic is not alone.

 

In the case of Rootsmagic as a company, and of course in my opinion, this became much more prevalent after the release of RM4. Personally I believe there is no substitute for quality programming and effective timely reactions to customer needs, this was very much more the case before RM4, again in my opinion.

 

All programs released will have minor bugs due to there complex nature but poor functionality is another issue.


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#26 RonB

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:41 AM

Since there does not seem to be wide spread complaints about the backup function, it would seem that RuthA's problem is more specific to her system/set up and not a general failure of the RM program.  Forums are great primarily for asking for assistance in how to do something or to get an idea if the problem being experienced is wide spread.  If a user is having a technical issue - I would say that an issue with the ability to run a successful backup is definitely a technical issue - then the user should be willing to go through the normal support channels.  Not every issue a user has is a shortfall of the program or the programming.  It is not so much that the quality of the programming has deteriorated, as it is the complexity of systems being used has increased.  And for those who think that my attitude is an acceptance of mediocrity, they are mistaken.  My attitude is one of reality and the realization that with todays systems and configurations, no programmer can be expected to write a program that will be error free on every system that program is installed on.  If a user has an issue with a program, they need to be willing to contact and work with technical support, not expect their issue to be solved through posting on a forum.



#27 RuthA

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:10 AM

I expect to have one or two minor issues with any program that I purchase, but not a major issue like the failure to backup.  Anyway, I have managed to sort it out for myself and, for the benefit of anyone else who, like me, expects programs they purchase (not free downloads) to work, this is what I did.  First, I removed any reference on my PC to Roots Magic - old backups, folders, database files, programs, etc. (I saved them to an external drive).  Then I restarted the PC and installed RM7 from a new download from the website, so it included the update.  Having done that, I checked that the places in the Folder Options were empty - they were.  I then created a new database and imported a TMG project directly (not a GEDCOM).  Having nominated a root person, and done some colour coding, I closed the program by using the X in the top right corner and was prompted for a backup.  I selected to back up to Google Drive.  The program seemed to hang for a while but then the "backup running" screen appeared and, despite seeming to take much longer than in RM6, it did save a backup in Google Drive.  I had been asked if I would be willing for RM7 to manipulate my Google Drive and, while normally I would respond No, on this occasion I agreed.  Having established that the backup existed in my Google Drive, I then created a folder in the GD named "RM7 backup and export" and moved the backup file into it.  Then I reopened the program, went to the Program Options and navigated to the newly created backup folder, selected it and then clicked OK.  I again closed the program, was prompted to backup and eventually was asked whether or not to overwrite the existing backup.  So, now I am able to backup from RM7 to a folder in my Google Drive, but it has taken a whole lot of palaver that wasn't needed in RM6.  As I have a home network, I will now have to go through a similar process on my laptop (which suffered from similar problems) and probably my netbook too.

 

Do the folks at RM not read the forums?  I would have thought it a good place to pick up problems that people are experiencing.



#28 RonB

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:19 AM

Do the folks at RM not read the forums?  I would have thought it a good place to pick up problems that people are experiencing.

As a matter of fact, they do.  That is why Renee advised you to submit a support ticket, so that the support folks could work directly with you to resolve your issue.

 

Renee works for RootsMagic, thus she was advising you of the best route to follow in order to address your problem.



#29 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:49 AM

I get a splash screen asking me where to backup to - it is pointing to the folder I have nominated in my Folders options.  Then I get an error message telling me that it can't find the file and that RM has prepared an error message for me to send - I can elect Yes or No.  

 

That's most mysterious. It shouldn't be trying to find a backup file. It should be trying to create a backup file. So it should be impossible that there's a message about a file it cannot find. Indeed, if you are using dates as a part of the backup file name, then there won't be a file there to find the first time you do a backup each day.

 

Are you familiar with the process of doing a print screen and getting the information into a file? I would love to see the error message, because it makes no sense that making a backup from RM would yield a file not found message.

 

Better still, Renee's advice to open a support ticket is excellent advice.

 

Jerry



#30 kbens0n

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:57 AM

So it wasn't the version of RootsMagic being 7.x that has a BACKUP problem, but rather the installation and configuration parts of using RootsMagic 7 on your particular machine that was troublesome. That is more common and I feel for you having to go through hoops. I can identify with that regarding plenty of programs I've installed and tried to used. Glad you got it ironed out.

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#31 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:57 AM

I had been asked if I would be willing for RM7 to manipulate my Google Drive and, while normally I would respond No, on this occasion I agreed.  

 

Having read this particular message in more detail, I wonder if something about Google Drive was the problem all along -  not something in RM. I would certainly agree that it's strange that you encountered a problem with RM7 and not with RM6. I don't use Google Drive, so I can't picture how the prompt for RM7 to manipulate Google Drive would have arisen in the first place. I use Dropbox, and individual programs don't have to be authorized to Dropbox or any of its subfolders. But taking my unfamiliarity with the way Google Drive works into account, I wonder if maybe at some point in the past you had authorized RM6 to use Google Drive and you had never authorized RM7 to use Google Drive, and maybe that's why your backups would work with RM6 and not RM7.

 

I'm definitely going to have to do some reading up on Google Drive.

 

Jerry



#32 TomH

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:04 AM

I think Jerry has identified the probable cause. I wonder if it was even Google Drive and not Windows that restricted access. It sounds very much like the step you often have to go through when Windows requires an Administrator to authorize that changes can be made to a folder.


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#33 TomH

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:35 AM

I should have tested my procedure before I wrote about it.

 

A backup to a SDHC camera card worked fine.

1] I removed the card and moved the write lock switch to the LOCKED position.

2] I then tried another backup to the SDHC card with a backup file name of "LOCKED" specified.  Something flashed on the screen.  There was no error message.

3] I then used Windows Explorer to check the SDHC card.  There was no file LOCKED.RMGB on the card.

4] I then tried to copy a photo to the card with Windows Explorer.  It failed with an error message as expected.

 

Conclusion: RootsMagic Version 7 needs a little more error checking.

And this is the new bug that needs to be fixed.


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#34 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:44 AM

 I had been asked if I would be willing for RM7 to manipulate my Google Drive and, while normally I would respond No, on this occasion I agreed.  

 

Right there's your problem.  No Acceptance, No Backup.

Capture.JPG



#35 kbens0n

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:48 AM

An additional failure test for Version 7 users would be to set the designated BACKUP folder to readonly and see if there's a warning or it blindly completes.

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--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
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#36 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:15 AM

 

Right there's your problem.  No Accept, No Backup.

Capture.JPG

 

Thanks to Ludlow Bay for posting the screen shot. But I still can't figure out why RM6 or RM7 has to be authorized to Google Drive. There is an API that apps can go through to get to Google Drive, but if all you are doing is writing a disk file and the disk file is stored in the Google Drive area of your local hard disk, then the API is not involved and no special permissions are required.  In theory, apps have to be written to use the Google Drive API before this Google Drive permission stuff should come into play? Does RM use the Google Drive API?

 

To a certain extent, Dropbox works the same way. The most typical usage does not involve an API. An app just stores a file in a folder within the DropBox folder on the local hard disk at the Dropbox client handles the rest. That's the way I work with RM and Dropbox, for example. But RM does have a way to "backup to Dropbox" that surely uses the Dropbox API. Is there maybe also some code somewhere in RM that is using the Google Drive API?

 

Jerry



#37 anzenketh

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:22 AM

If you are selecting the save to Dropbox feature on backup yes it actually would call upon the Dropbox API so you would have to authenticate. I would assume the same would be for google drive. You are not writing to a folder in this case you are writing directly to the drive with no local copy first. Now if you navigated to the location manually like you would save a backup on your local system it should not require authentication. 



#38 RonB

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:27 AM

Jerry.

 

Every time I want to link a program from my PC or an app from one of my iDevices to Dropbox (for the first time), I have to authorize the program to access Dropbox.  After downloading RM 7, when I made my first backup to Dropbox, I had to authorize RM 7 to access Dropbox.  I had been backing up RM 6 to Dropbox all along, but had to authorize RM 6 when I made the first backup to Dropbox.



#39 TomH

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:20 AM

That Google Authorization screenshot arises when you initially use the Backup option "To Google Drive", which saves directly to the cloud, using the Google Drive API. It does not save directly to the local sub-folder of the Google Drive folder. I got this message when I used that option but not when I use the default option "On my computer (floppy disk, hard drive...)" to save to a subfolder of the Google Drive folder. (Windows Firewall also challenged me the first time I tried "To Google Drive". 

 

I think the names of the options are still ambiguous, leading to probable confusion. Maybe they should be:

  • To Google Drive via Internet (or "To Google Drive in the cloud" or "To Google Drive Internet server") 
  • To Dropbox via Internet 

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#40 TomH

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:43 AM

If the folder setting for Backups in Tools > Program Options points to a non-existing folder, then the default Backup to "On my computer (floppy disk, hard drive...)" proceeds without error message to place the file in the Documents folder, e.g., "C:\Users\Ruth\Documents".

 

It seems to me that Ruth was using the "To Google Drive" option, which failed to upload the file to the Google Drive server because she did not authorize RootsMagic to "View and manage Google Drive files that you have opened or created with this app, etc". Therefore, her local Google Drive folder would never receive the non-existing file through a sync download. Having hit the "Cancel" button on the authorization dialog, of course there was no error message because she cancelled the backup - perhaps there could be an information message to say that "No backup file has been created". Once she did "Accept" the requested authorization, the backup did proceed to the Google Drive server, and , eventually (the time lag she noted), it was synchronised down to her local Google Drive. Had she simply used the default "On my computer (floppy disk, hard drive...)", the backup would have proceeded, without any message, to the local Google Drive folder (provided the Folder setting was correct) and, eventually, the Google Drive sync would have copied the file to the Google Drive server on the Internet.

 

The default option is the default because that is the one to be used on base computers. The "To Dropbox" and "To Google Drive" options are for exceptional use when the program is being run on a device without a personal account for these drives, for example, when using RootsMagic in the To Go mode from a flash drive on a computer belonging to someone else.   


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