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#21 kbens0n

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:49 AM

Bruce & Co. have ALWAYS maintained a somewhat specific methodology in handling personalities and politics. They've done a fantastic job of how they handle things and their justification is proven by their success. If several years have gone by since a suggested feature was wished for, but not immediately implemented, you can rest assured that it just doesn't fit in the plans for current iterations of the software and most likely may not for some time to come yet or not at all.

---
--- "GENEALOGY, n. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." - Ambrose Bierce
--- "The trouble ain't what people don't know, it's what they know that ain't so." - Josh Billings
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#22 anzenketh

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 11:36 AM

 

Bruce & Co. have ALWAYS maintained a somewhat specific methodology in handling personalities and politics. They've done a fantastic job of how they handle things and their justification is proven by their success. If several years have gone by since a suggested feature was wished for, but not immediately implemented, you can rest assured that it just doesn't fit in the plans for current iterations of the software and most likely may not for some time to come yet or not at all.

 

 
This is my fear that that ones on my list won't ever be implemented even though they are close to deal-breakers for me. I understand why it is not in this iteration they are doing a re-write. However they have not been on many re-writes so I am starting to think that they won't ever be implemented. This is sad as some of them could be real deal-breakers for some people.
 
Specifically
 
1) Sources not exporting well. The only reason why I can think they don't want to do this is that they think that it will only effect a small majority. I do not feel this is the case. The only other reason is they don't want us to share. Or they want to wait for a standardized Gedcom to appear. This won'
t happen for many many many years.
2) There is still no way to check if places are standardized in your database. This looks like a partly implemented feature. As I stated in my post the reason why it may not be in this iteration is they are waiting for the Familysearch API. Frankly I don't blame them. I would not want to create the database required for this feature. 
3) The compare database feature is helping a lot but still needs improvement to resolve my request regarding merge issues. This is something that will please the masses as it would make it possible to be in sync with other websites/people. 


#23 Vyger

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 11:45 AM

I guess this is the official 'gripe' thread for RM7. I, too, am not upgrading at this time due to the apparent lack of responsiveness to users that are willing to spend time in this forum helping support this product.

 

I try to stay away from negatives and instead refer to them as constructive criticism. I am happy to declare that I will not be upgrading to RM7 at this time and I am thankfully not short of $20, it's a principle decision on my part.

 

The tracking system must be bulging with valid points regarding unfinished or incomplete functionality of features previously added over the years. They are far too numerous to list here but a search of the hot topics even since the release of RM4 some five and a half years ago will show the trend.

 

No, this part of the program did not change. We are still working on a rewrite of RootsMagic for the native Mac & PC version. We only added new features in RM7 that would not conflict with the rewrite development schedule. Of course, anything is possible with RM7 updates in the future. 

 

I take some hope from Renees comment above but being sceptical I do wonder if the long wished for polishing of some previous features will be offered within the lifetime of RM7 or will they become another carrot for the release of RM8 with the Mac re-write still being in the pipeline.

 

 

I guess that depends on how hard it is to part with $20.

 

For me it's not about parting with 20 bucks or even parting with cumulative sums over the years. I believe by the time any new version is released the problems and shortcomings of previously introduced features should be overcome, anything less is short changing the users who paid for that upgrade or version. I have now seen many unresolved issues over several versions so it appears that the driving force behind programme development is not in line with my own personal expectations, I don't expect my expectations to be important to Rootsmagic but that's where I lay my hat. So lets forget about the years of Family Origins development and allow me to ask TomH a question based on the 7 versions of Rootsmagic. Would you be happy to part with $140 for the program in its current build with the various unfinished features and incomplete functionality?

 

 

Confirming issue noted in our tracking system. 

 

I too would like to see some statistics on those issues in the tracking system but, of course, never will. It would be a simple enough task for someone with some time on their hands to compile some indicative stats but I think most long term users of this forum have a pretty good idea what those issues are.

 

I would also like to see the results of the Rootsmagic Survey (but never will), I never saved the questions but I am pretty sure none of them pointed towards the latest RM7 feature upgrades. That leave a number of questions unanswered regarding the driving force behind development, revenue and quality are both important to business success. Any business can see a falling bottom line, and it's generally too late, but never really knows if they could have achieved much more revenue through better quality. In my experience striving to be the absolute best in class within reasonable costs has always been a successful business model and one I will never forsake.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#24 Brian Lummis

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:14 PM

I use Find My Past for my research and after a lot of customer dissatisfaction over changes made a few months ago, they introduced an Ideas Board for members to be able to make suggestions. Each member was given a number of votes and up to 3 votes could be given to any idea that was thought to be worthwhile giving the company a good indication of what their customers were most concerned about and able to draw up a list of priorities. The system is transparent as each member can see how many votes have been cast and the company reports on what it is doing to meet the concerns, using descriptions such as Planned, Started and Launching Soon.

I think that this is excellent customer service and goes a long way to supporting that old marketing adage of looking after your existing customers before chasing after new ones!



#25 MikeZ

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:26 PM

Although I did purchase the RM7 upgrade, I believe I may have done so too soon.  

 

I find considerable merit in Vyger's comments in this topic.  Perhaps I was hoping some of my comments/issues "confirmed in the RM tracking system" were included in RM7.  However, I have not yet found that to be the case - such as session windows not retaining their last use set positions, and restoring the A/N source name sorting capability (from RM3) in the Citation Manager.

 

Without knowing a status / work priority of the myriad of items must exist in that tracking system, one must have blind faith that they will ever have a chance of being included in RM. 

 

It took me quite a while to consider upgrading from RM3 - missing all the "fun" I read about with RM4, waiting until RM6.   Considering the issues being discussed in RM7, I will be using it sparingly as I feel somewhat uncomfortable with the potential of doing something I expect to work, yet finding that I've just created a nightmare in my 17,900 person database.


User since Family Origins 2.0, Now using RM 7.5...


#26 Renee Zamora

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:33 PM

RootsMagic will never display its tracking system list because our competitors would see it and possibly take all these great ideas. RootsMagic users are not the only ones that read our forums. Websites might be able to have their user requests open to the public but they can implement those changes immediately and not wait for updates to the desktop programs to be released. 

 

I mentioned earlier on the forums that RM7 only added items that were not scheduled for the rewrite. The items in the tracking system are still there and arranged for how they can best be implemented with a complete rewrite of the program. 

 

The Webhints are part of new innovative technology that comes from partnering with other genealogy companies. This could not wait for a complete rewrite of RootsMagic to be done. It was important for us to get this out now. That is why you are seeing version 7 as it is. Other features added did not effect the rewrite schedule. 

 

There were some things I beta tested for RM7 that have been in the tracking system a long time, and they got pulled because of how they effected other parts of the program, so they need to be redesigned. You may still see them come out. RM7 was just released and updates to it will be free.

 

It took 4 years to complete the rewrite of RootsMagic from version 3 to 4. We are only 2 years into this rewrite for the native Mac & PC version. We had to wait for development tools to be completed before we could begin. Working on the direct import of TMG files further slowed that down. I'm not saying the re-write version is now 2 years away, no one has an answer for that. Things simple will not be released until they are stable and ready.


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#27 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 03:26 PM

RootsMagic will never display its tracking system list because our competitors would see it and possibly take all these great ideas. 

 

Somebody else might as well take them.  :wacko:   It would be more honest if some most of the "confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system" responses were replaced with "No way! Not now, not ever!" because frankly, we already know how this song is gonna end.



#28 Brian Lummis

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:19 PM

 

RootsMagic will never display its tracking system list because our competitors would see it and possibly take all these great ideas. RootsMagic users are not the only ones that read our forums.

 

Has anyone at RM ever considered that a competitor could easily see what customers want by using commonly available software to scrape the forum for those postings where the response has been the ubiquitous "confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system" and build up their own priority list?

 

I am one of many TMG users who are looking at what is currently available as well as being a paying customer of RM for a number of years without using it as my main genealogy program. Looking at the comments from some of the long term users of RM it is very reminiscent of TMG where in recent years there was going to be jam tomorrow and a possible rewrite. It is no wonder that there are TMG users and others who are nervous of the future.

 

I have however made my investment by purchasing RM7 in the hope that sufficient people will do so to ensure that the software is improved and is there for the long term. Unhappily I took the same view with TMG so I might be bad at backing horses!

 

What customers want, is to see is that someone is actually listening and doing something - vague promises are not enough in this modern day. Maybe I am spoilt as I also construct websites using software that is provided by a very small company with a responsive owner. Not only does he answer every query personally on the forum (and that can be 50 queries a day) he also responds with immediate updates when minor suggestions are made and has a Suggestions List which he works through for major updates. He is also honest and says if a suggestion is impracticable or would take too long to implement. I don't expect the same level of involvement from RM but that is what it should be aspiring to do.



#29 Vyger

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:31 PM

.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#30 Vyger

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:32 PM

I use Find My Past for my research and after a lot of customer dissatisfaction over changes made a few months ago, they introduced an Ideas Board for members to be able to make suggestions. Each member was given a number of votes and up to 3 votes could be given to any idea that was thought to be worthwhile giving the company a good indication of what their customers were most concerned about and able to draw up a list of priorities. The system is transparent as each member can see how many votes have been cast and the company reports on what it is doing to meet the concerns, using descriptions such as Planned, Started and Launching Soon.

 

Many boards use a similar transparent methodology but not Rootsmagic, once into the tracking system it seems items are never fulfilled.

 

 

Although I did purchase the RM7 upgrade, I believe I may have done so too soon.  

 

I find considerable merit in Vyger's comments in this topic.  Perhaps I was hoping some of my comments/issues "confirmed in the RM tracking system" were included in RM7.  However, I have not yet found that to be the case - such as session windows not retaining their last use set positions, and restoring the A/N source name sorting capability (from RM3) in the Citation Manager.

 

There are many such items and I find morally I must vote with my true feelings on development and not blindly follow the herd.

 

 

Has anyone at RM ever considered that a competitor could easily see what customers want by using commonly available software to scrape the forum for those postings where the response has been the ubiquitous "confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system" and build up their own priority list?

 

It would seem not, those wishes and enhancements are completely public so any competitor can see and act on them. On the other hand Rootsmagic keep any actions private and in my experience so many valuable enhancement ideas die through time as this thread will also do. To keep this thread alive Rootsmagic have the privs to "pin it" but I very much doubt they will do so.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#31 anzenketh

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:57 PM

RootsMagic will never display its tracking system list because our competitors would see it and possibly take all these great ideas. RootsMagic users are not the only ones that read our forums. Websites might be able to have their user requests open to the public but they can implement those changes immediately and not wait for updates to the desktop programs to be released. 

 

 

I think most of us would be happy with a system like UserVoice and Getsatisfaction for a wishlist system. Mostly however we want to know if you plan on doing something or if something just does not fit within your vision of the product. We would like to know if systems that we recommend (public anyways) are in development/planned development or just under consideration. I can understand not providing us with that information also. 



#32 gerwally

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 05:49 PM

Although I haven't purchased Roots Magic 7 yet, I plan on doing do.  I think Roots Magic is a great program and don't understand all the negative criticism.  There are definitely improvements I would like to see made to the program and I have requested some of those on these forums.  I hope to see a Mac version someday but am currently using Root Magic with Windows 7 and Parallels on my Mac.  I usually wait awhile after new software comes out before I purchase it to make sure there are no bugs in it.  I did this with Roots Magic 6 and will do it with Roots Magic 7.  Hopefully as users become familiar with the enhancements in Roots Magic 7 and it is updated, some of the criticism will subside.  I am anxious to try out the new Publish Online and am excited that it will be indexed by Google. 



#33 TomH

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:16 PM

So lets forget about the years of Family Origins development and allow me to ask TomH a question based on the 7 versions of Rootsmagic. Would you be happy to part with $140 for the program in its current build with the various unfinished features and incomplete functionality?

$140 seems like a lot when the mainstream of genealogy software is priced at $30-$50. And that price tipping point above which sales volume must plummet is at the root of the problem. I guesstimate that RootsMagic Inc and its ilk have to generate ballpark annual income of, say, $300k. That's on the order of 10,000 licensees or 15,000 upgrades, ignoring other product sales which must contribute only a tiny fraction. Every year.

I predicted we would see an upgrade for this Christmas because the income is needed. With MyHeritage offering an API and its marketing strength, no wonder it became the leading feature. New licensees are worth more than upgraders; upgraders are already close to a captive market. Those of us who refuse to upgrade because things that we asked for have not come out must be a small fraction of the user community, despite our large presence in these Forums.

Since my original purchase of Family Origins 9, I have had only 4 upgrades and spent $80 thereon. Over the same period, I must have spent almost $2000 on subscriptions to Ancestry et al. I did not hesitate to pop $20 for this upgrade, which is unusual because I usually wait for a couple of updates to fix the more risky of the inevitable bugs that snuck through beta testing.

Is it worth it for me to have this upgrade? Like Laura, I think the File Compare will be worth four lattes. However, I have had little opportunity to do much more than skim the surfaces of the new features.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#34 MikeZ

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:45 PM

...  I think Roots Magic is a great program and don't understand all the negative criticism.  There are definitely improvements I would like to see made to the program and I have requested some of those on these forums. ...

I do not believe we (at least I) are suggesting that RM is a bad program.   Rather, I think what you are seeing is user frustration at various levels based on what is important to that user. 

 

I have no idea of your user history with this company, but when I see previous functionality lost, I am quite bothered by it.  Initially, I was comforted when told my enhancement/problem/concern was in "the tracking system".  But after awhile, without feedback, that information becomes little more than a placebo.  I believe honest feedback is critical to the customer-company relationship.  A one shot "it's in there" doesn't do it.  What harm would there be in publicly acknowledging a user's idea, or a identified problem, was included in a program update?  Or, being forthright with the user, about the priority assigned to a tracking item?

 

At least that would be a step towards transparency... :)


User since Family Origins 2.0, Now using RM 7.5...


#35 zhangrau

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 01:21 AM

There are at least three places where RM communicates about changes and new features:
1. In occasional emailed newsletters
2. http://forums.rootsm...-announcements/
3. http://www.rootsmagi...c/Features.aspx

#36 Brian Lummis

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 03:25 AM

Thanks zhangrau, I think that you have just proved the point about good communication as there have been been no Announcements for nearly two years. :rolleyes:



#37 Vyger

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 05:24 AM

I am certainly not criticising Rootsmagic as a program, I think it would be more fair to say that I am disappointed in the development pace. Like TomH, I joined around FO9 (maybe earlier) and back in those days the Rootsmagician was very responsive to user suggestions and ideas. I always believed that was a strength of Formalsoft and I feel something has changed. I can also understand that as companies grow it becomes more difficult to stay in touch with the grass roots and I would not want to take away from any company's success.

 

I am also deeply disappointed for a friend of mine who was so much looking forward to some of the enhancements he believed would be part of RM7. Genealogy is his only pleasure now and sadly he will now never see those enhancements due to health issues.

 

I am looking forward to the webinar on Tuesday and seeing RM7 and what it does have to offer. I have never said that I was deserting Rootsmagic at this time but faster development in other camps may the decision to change less painful in the future.

 

For now I am going to believe that a side program with all the Hot Topic enhancements is in development (the re-write) and that RM7 was pushed to market due to the MyHeritage connection. I am also going to believe that will likely be RM8 and that release will be fall 2015. Enhancements to the programme structure of RM7 seems unlikely as it will be redundant once the re-write is ready for market so my hopes are not high there.

 

For now RM7 does not have anything which excites me (that may change on Tuesday night) so why should I upgrade? Rootsmagic will not miss my $20 and I would say since it's such a small ask many users will upgrade regardless of their level of satisfaction confirming the company's development path is on track.


We are all limited by our visions and abilities

Whilst we can borrow from the visions of others we cannot always deliver.

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#38 RonB

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:09 AM

 

Somebody else might as well take them.  :wacko:   It would be more honest if some most of the "confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system" responses were replaced with "No way! Not now, not ever!" because frankly, we already know how this song is gonna end.

Providing positive comments as usual - NOT.  Just curious why do you troll this forum.  Obviously you hate the RootsMagic software, so why waste everybody's time with your no value added snipes?



#39 MikeZ

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 07:40 AM

Thanks zhangrau, I think that you have just proved the point about good communication as there have been been no Announcements for nearly two years. :rolleyes:

Touché...  Not to mention that what is listed there misses the gist of my comment - personal recognition, or at least notification, of one's contribution to the product (not for monetary gain).


User since Family Origins 2.0, Now using RM 7.5...


#40 TomH

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 08:17 AM

Thanks zhangrau, I think that you have just proved the point about good communication as there have been been no Announcements for nearly two years. :rolleyes:

Not so. The latest was 7 Oct edit of the RM6 Updates announcement.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.